Plan-B

[Vestarena]

All the arguments used for abortion are used for birth control. Go figure.

I don't get it. This plan-B pill is not about abortion. Taking this pill keeps a fertilized egg from connecting with the uterine wall and start developing from there? I've been told that's what it does? You're telling me that fertilized egg is a human being? That's fanaticism, not to mention confusion. So you're going to claim God made that fertilization happen so He wants that potential baby to come into this world so that morning after pill is murder? Give me a break! What fantasy world do you live in? God said NOT to have sex out of marriage so unwanted children would not be born into this world. This whole world is running on its own outside of God's will, other than those that keep His laws and commandments. Hence, you are saying that if someone interferes with something that's already happened outside of God's will, they'll be going against God's will. And as for a child supposedly being involved? What child? What consciousness exists there? We're talking about a barely fertilized egg! All you're arguing is semantics, no real breathing conscious person whatsoever.

Frankly, I don't think most people that debate the abortion issue really give diddly squat about any unborn fetus, they just want to champion an argument. What about the millions of neglected, starving, abused, and forgotten living, breathing children already in this world? How about you champion them? Food in their stomachs? Now that would make sense. You accomplish absolutely nothing with debates like this. Absolutely NO ONE on this earth, least of all, unborn fetuses gain anything from this garbage.

 

[HollyLoree]

anatomy lesson...

from wikipedia..."In humans (as in all other mammals, except for monotremes), implantation is the very early stage of pregnancy at which the embryo adheres to the wall of the uterus. At this stage of prenatal development, the embryo is a blastocyst. It is by this adhesion that the fetus receives oxygen and nutrients from the mother to be able to grow.
In humans, implantation of a fertilized ovum is most likely to occur about 9 days after ovulation, ranging between 6 to 12 days."

if a fertilized egg is prevented from implanting...then we -are- talking about an abortion...

That is the strangest reasoning I've ever heard of. How is preventing a fertilized egg from implanting an abortion? I can see how removing an implanted egg would be an abortion, but there are tons of fertilized eggs that never implant just by natural result. I'm sitting here confounded by your reasoning. It seems like people obsess over a fertilized egg so small you could hardly see it under a microscope, with no brain, lungs, etc. even started up yet, but they never give a thought to the millions of unloved children already in this world. So freaking weird.

 

[MidniteWelder]

This being a Christian forum on a Christian website, let it be understood the discussions are going to be based and backed with scripture and Gods principles, not peoples opinions.
God runs a kingdom of order and hierarchy
Not a democracy where popular vote counts
Therefore it wouldn't be relevant if 999999999 people vote for
and 1 person votes against
Because the 999999999 people can all be incorrect (especially if they have no scripture
---WHATSOEVER ---
to back their wants, desires, claims and/or opinions)
All topics here should be Godly inspired and discussed accordingly lest they fall victim to the enemies schemes and worldly influences.

So
If we're going to steer this to a topic of nature happening and natural things we're preventing
we should ask ourselves two things before continuing.

1. Is there such a thing as Mother Nature or Father God
(Because there can only be one or the other)
2. When caught in a predicament:
Should a person rely on their own understanding and try to dictate their future by influencing Mother Nature:
or rather let their decisions be influenced by Father God

 

[Nautilus]

This being a Christian forum on a Christian website, let it be understood the discussions are going to be based and backed with scripture and Gods principles, not peoples opinions.
God runs a kingdom of order and hierarchy
Not a democracy where popular vote counts
Therefore it wouldn't be relevant if 999999999 people vote for
and 1 person votes against
Because the 999999999 people can all be incorrect (especially if they have no scripture
---WHATSOEVER ---
to back their wants, desires, claims and/or opinions)
All topics here should be Godly inspired and discussed accordingly lest they fall victim to the enemies schemes and worldly influences.

So
If we're going to steer this to a topic of nature happening and natural things we're preventing
we should ask ourselves two things before continuing.

1. Is there such a thing as Mother Nature or Father God
(Because there can only be one or the other)
2. When caught in a predicament:
Should a person rely on their own understanding and try to dictate their future by influencing Mother Nature:
or rather let their decisions be influenced by Father God

So because premarital sex is wrong within scripture we should as a seculat ation follow the biblical principles and supply no aid to those who engage in it anyways? Sounds a good deal fanatical and cruel.

 

[MidniteWelder]

God could also be viewed as fanatical and cruel I suppose for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah in the manner he used due to their sexual practices and haughty rebellion, although in hindsight I wonder if those people would have rather preferred being told how it is instead of appeased.
What's more cruel and which is actually more loving according to Gods word:
Enabling which spoils
or
discipline which brings wisdom and obedience

 

[Nautilus]

OK but you realize that you would be inadvertently punishing the children born of these bad decisions because now they are stuck unwanted and probably poorly cared for. So thats great make the children suffer for the mistakes of their parents.

 

[MidniteWelder]

I suppose so, as it has been foretold to be

3“You shall have no other gods before me.4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Again, is it mother nature or Father God we need to follow

 

[HollyLoree]

This being a Christian forum on a Christian website, let it be understood the discussions are going to be based and backed with scripture and Gods principles, not peoples opinions.
God runs a kingdom of order and hierarchy
Not a democracy where popular vote counts
Therefore it wouldn't be relevant if 999999999 people vote for
and 1 person votes against
Because the 999999999 people can all be incorrect (especially if they have no scripture
---WHATSOEVER ---
to back their wants, desires, claims and/or opinions)
All topics here should be Godly inspired and discussed accordingly lest they fall victim to the enemies schemes and worldly influences.

So
If we're going to steer this to a topic of nature happening and natural things we're preventing
we should ask ourselves two things before continuing.

1. Is there such a thing as Mother Nature or Father God
(Because there can only be one or the other)
2. When caught in a predicament:
Should a person rely on their own understanding and try to dictate their future by influencing Mother Nature:
or rather let their decisions be influenced by Father God

So let's steer it back to that solid rock of understanding all Christians share about exactly what scriptures say about absolutely everything! Now, where exactly is that rock? Looking looking looking looking, still..... looking. Where is that freaking thing anyway?

 

[HollyLoree]

OK but you realize that you would be inadvertently punishing the children born of these bad decisions because now they are stuck unwanted and probably poorly cared for. So thats great make the children suffer for the mistakes of their parents.

What you don't understand, Nautilus, is that this is not about real people (sarcasm). This is about rules! This is about an agenda! Yes, men call this God's agenda, but in reality, this agenda has nothing to do with God. We're talking about people that already have done something against God's will here (as we all have done at some time or another, by the way). We're asking what we think the best thing for such people to do after they've disobeyed God's laws (people who we have no say over whatsoever, many of which do not believe in God to start with). Ultimately, we're asking what would be best for such people's future children, REAL children, not just subjects of some debate.

 

[MidniteWelder]

So let's steer it back to that solid rock of understanding all Christians share about exactly what scriptures say about absolutely everything! Now, where exactly is that rock? Looking looking looking looking, still..... looking. Where is that freaking thing anyway?

Right here:
Ecclesiastes 12
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I don't get it. This plan-B pill is not about abortion. Taking this pill keeps a fertilized egg from connecting with the uterine wall and start developing from there? I've been told that's what it does? You're telling me that fertilized egg is a human being? That's fanaticism, not to mention confusion. So you're going to claim God made that fertilization happen so He wants that potential baby to come into this world so that morning after pill is murder? Give me a break! What fantasy world do you live in? God said NOT to have sex out of marriage so unwanted children would not be born into this world. This whole world is running on its own outside of God's will, other than those that keep His laws and commandments. Hence, you are saying that if someone interferes with something that's already happened outside of God's will, they'll be going against God's will. And as for a child supposedly being involved? What child? What consciousness exists there? We're talking about a barely fertilized egg! All you're arguing is semantics, no real breathing conscious person whatsoever.

Frankly, I don't think most people that debate the abortion issue really give diddly squat about any unborn fetus, they just want to champion an argument. What about the millions of neglected, starving, abused, and forgotten living, breathing children already in this world? How about you champion them? Food in their stomachs? Now that would make sense. You accomplish absolutely nothing with debates like this. Absolutely NO ONE on this earth, least of all, unborn fetuses gain anything from this garbage.

You have no credibility on the matter. I'm not interested in your vain philosophies.

 

[Nautilus]

What you don't understand, Nautilus, is that this is not about real people (sarcasm). This is about rules! This is about an agenda! Yes, men call this God's agenda, but in reality, this agenda has nothing to do with God. We're talking about people that already have done something against God's will here (as we all have done at some time or another, by the way). We're asking what we think the best thing for such people to do after they've disobeyed God's laws (people who we have no say over whatsoever, many of which do not believe in God to start with). Ultimately, we're asking what would be best for such people's future children, REAL children, not just subjects of some debate.

Well as harsh as it is to say, let people choose for themselves. Abortion is not a christian view, but it exists. If pople want one then that is something they have to deal with. I would never advocate a partner to get one in the event of a mistake unless keeping the baby was detrimental to their health. However people using the morning after pill doesn;t bother me at all. Im fine with it being over the counter.

 

[HollyLoree]

Right here:
Ecclesiastes 12
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Which ones?

 

[Vestarena]

You have no credibility on the matter. I'm not interested in your vain philosophies.

I'm glad to know that. I'd be forced to reevaluate if you did. And let me guess. You also believe that if that fertilized egg developed into a baby, was born, and never became a Christian, God would send that baby into never ending torment. Yeah, I'm definately glad we disagree.

 

[Christabel]

MidnightWelder, It's fine and dandy that The Bible says not to have sex outside of marriage. But of course people will still do. It would probably be a much better world if everyone followed the Bible verbatim. But unfortunately, that is not the case. I don't feel those people should suffer and ruin their lives any further by NOT offering it for them. I realize everyone is supposed to save themselves for marriage. But thats just not going to be the case for everyone.

and Jinx, I do believe a 15 years old should have access to it. They might be too embarressed to go to their parents or a doctor. They might feel they have to do it in secret. I'd rather let them have it and not ruin there life, than them being too shy to get it if the only way is with an adult and end up having the kid when they are not ready and they are a kid too lets not forget.

I agree. I hate the idea, I'll admit, of this happening to a 15 year old. That's why in the old days, young children were chaperoned on dates IF they were even allowed to date. Otherwise, nature tends to take its course? Duh. But I'd rather a young person take the morning after pill than get an abortion, which they probably will, you know. I hate it all around, but those are the facts. Yes, obviously, if this 15 year old's parents had taught them God's will for them and the young person had listened, it wouldn't have happened. But that's life on this earth right now.

 

[Christabel]

I have to wonder: if Genesis says, "God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and man became a living soul", I have to wonder if man didn't become a living soul until the breath of life was breathed into him. It's not that I definitely think a human isn't a living soul until he or she breathes, but that is what that scripture says, if we take it literally.

King James Cambridge Version: Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Hm. Gotta wonder.

 

[Nautilus]

I have to wonder: if Genesis says, "God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and man became a living soul", I have to wonder if man didn't become a living soul until the breath of life was breathed into him. It's not that I definitely think a human isn't a living soul until he or she breathes, but that is what that scripture says, if we take it literally.

King James Cambridge Version: Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Hm. Gotta wonder.

Actually its pretty much what i go with, though not for that reason...it just makes more sense to me.

 

[MidniteWelder]

This is what I go with...for obvious reasons

Psalm 139
13For you created my inmost being;you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I'm glad to know that. I'd be forced to reevaluate if you did. And let me guess. You also believe that if that fertilized egg developed into a baby, was born, and never became a Christian, God would send that baby into never ending torment. Yeah, I'm definately glad we disagree.

As I recall uou have established yourself quite well as a heretic in other threads. Believing that everyone will be saved, and none in hell. Do correct me if I am wrong. Sometimes I mix and match names.

People who fight day and night against God, will never understand his word. Paul established that quite well with the case of the natural man.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I have to wonder: if Genesis says, "God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and man became a living soul", I have to wonder if man didn't become a living soul until the breath of life was breathed into him. It's not that I definitely think a human isn't a living soul until he or she breathes, but that is what that scripture says, if we take it literally.

King James Cambridge Version: Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Hm. Gotta wonder.

Before God breathed life, he was an inanimate object. Comparing apples and bananas. It says later in Genesis 5 I recall, that Adam produced a son after his image, and thus all humans are produced after the image of Adam. Meaning, all have the breath of life. I would also be careful about taking something more spiritual in nature, and trying to use it to justify something biological.