What is meant when people say 'guns don't kill people; people do'?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#21
Jan 15, 2011
6,070
3,459
113
#21
VickyK said:
Is anyone saying that firearms can in and of themselves do anything?
Click to expand...
It is more or less implied by the logic of persons who insist we have to ban firearms (or severely restrict the private ownership thereof). The problem isn't the tool but how it used by the person who possesses it.

Someone who is bent on killing someone (or a group of people) will find a way to carry out their evil regardless of the tools at their disposal. Japan has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the world and to be honest they don't have a major problem with firearms crime, but they do have a problem with mass knife attacks (yes, it's a thing). At the same time Mexico also has highly restrictive firearms laws yet in spite of them the drug cartels have no problem obtaining them and using them to control entire populations of unarmed citizens.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#22
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#22
Oncefallen said:
It is more or less implied by the logic of persons who insist we have to ban firearms (or severely restrict the private ownership thereof). The problem isn't the tool but how it used by the person who possesses it.

Someone who is bent on killing someone (or a group of people) will find a way to carry out their evil regardless of the tools at their disposal. Japan has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the world and to be honest they don't have a major problem with firearms crime, but they do have a problem with mass knife attacks (yes, it's a thing). At the same time Mexico also has highly restrictive firearms laws yet in spite of them the drug cartels have no problem obtaining them and using them to control entire populations of unarmed citizens.
Click to expand...
Okay so no one has actually said guns themselves have personal agency
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#23
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#23
VickyK said:
Okay so no one has actually said guns themselves have personal agency
Click to expand...
Yet every time we talk about firearms restrictions very seldom do those who wish to restrict it ever deal with the problem of the personal agent.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#24
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#24
Reformed1689 said:
Yet every time we talk about firearms restrictions very seldom do those who wish to restrict it ever deal with the problem of the personal agent.
Click to expand...
I can only take your word for that.


Back to the OP, what is 'guns don't kill people, people do' in response? Is anyone denying people kill people?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#25
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#25
VickyK said:
I can only take your word for that.


Back to the OP, what is 'guns don't kill people, people do' in response? Is anyone denying people kill people?
Click to expand...
Again:


The phrase is a valid point, because ultimately the problem isn't the tool itself but the user. Getting rid of guns may provide some relief, but you still have the underlying problem that isn't dealt with.
Click to expand...

Is gun violence ultimately a gun access problem or a spiritual problem?
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#26
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#26
Reformed1689 said:
Again:





Is gun violence ultimately a gun access problem or a spiritual problem?
Click to expand...
Unless people are a) suggesting guns have personal agency or b) denying people kill people, I have no idea what statement the phrase is in response to.

If it isn't in response to anything, it is literally stating facts. The phrase may as well be 'water is wet, cats meow'.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#27
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#27
VickyK said:
Unless people are a) suggesting guns have personal agency or b) denying people kill people, I have no idea what statement the phrase is in response to.

If it isn't in response to anything, it is literally stating facts. The phrase may as well be 'water is wet, cats meow'.
Click to expand...
I don't know how many times and different ways I'm going to have to say this and I'm slowly becoming convinced you're trolling.

The phrase "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is trying to point out that the root problem of gun violence is in the person who perpetrates the violence.


Vicky. Let me ask you this.


Why does sin exist?
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#28
May 8, 2014
5,246
1,660
113
#28
I'm concerned about the number of firearms, and amount of ammo that has been sold during the past 12 months. How many buyers have the training that goes along with owning them? I feel that far too many have little or no training. How do others who have owned and used them? How often do you go to the range?

I have a 300 yd firing range that my family uses almost every weekend. We have been doing this for many years. Guns have been a part of our life for the last two centuries.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#29
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#29
Billyd said:
I'm concerned about the number of firearms, and amount of ammo that has been sold during the past 12 months. How many buyers have the training that goes along with owning them? I feel that far too many have little or no training. How do others who have owned and used them? How often do you go to the range?

I have a 300 yd firing range that my family uses almost every weekend. We have been doing this for many years. Guns have been a part of our life for the last two centuries.
Click to expand...
I don't go to the range often because I work nights, am married, am in school full time, and studying for my promotion test. I have been in possession and or handling guns since I was about 12. I am also currently serving in active duty if that gives you assurance of responsibility. That said, I don't think gun ownership should be restricted to someone who has taken a class. It is a right as important as free speech and religion. I should not be infringed as the constitution says.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#30
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#30
Reformed1689 said:
I don't know how many times and different ways I'm going to have to say this and I'm slowly becoming convinced you're trolling.

The phrase "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is trying to point out that the root problem of gun violence is in the person who perpetrates the violence.


Vicky. Let me ask you this.


Why does sin exist?
Click to expand...
What makes you an authority on the phrase? Did you coin it yourself?
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#32
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#32
Reformed1689 said:
People should stop responding to this thread. It's clearly a joke.


Click to expand...
Just because you can't show me any evidence of people claiming that guns have personal agency?

Or is it because you can't show me any evidence of people claiming that people don't kill people?

Or are you offended that a phrase you possibly repeat yourself is so obvious in its truths that it's redundant?

'The sky is blue, water is wet'

I believe the above statement to be true, as does pretty much everyone. That's why I don't repeat it.
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#33
May 8, 2014
5,246
1,660
113
#33
VickyK said:
Unless people are a) suggesting guns have personal agency or b) denying people kill people, I have no idea what statement the phrase is in response to.

If it isn't in response to anything, it is literally stating facts. The phrase may as well be 'water is wet, cats meow'.
Click to expand...
It is simple.

A gun can lay on the table for centuries and won't harm anyone. Someone (people) decides that they are going to kill someone, they pick up the gun, load it, point it, and pull the trigger. Then, and, only the will a gun kill someone.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#34
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#34
Billyd said:
It is simple.

A gun can lay on the table for centuries and won't harm anyone. Someone (people) decides that they are going to kill someone, they pick up the gun, load it, point it, and pull the trigger. Then, and, only the will a gun kill someone.
Click to expand...
Is anyone suggesting a gun can lay on a table for centuries and harm someone?
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#36
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#36
Reformed1689 said:
Why does sin exist?
Click to expand...
That does not answer my question.

I will afford you the courtesy of answering your question despite your refusing to answer mine. Sin exists because God created it.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#37
#37
kaylagrl said:
It's the same as someone saying a fork made them fat. You can use a fork to eat healthy or you can use it to eat pie all day. The object is in your hands and you choose whether it's used for good or ill.
Click to expand...
What I was going to say :LOL:
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#38
#38
VickyK said:
That does not answer my question.

I will afford you the courtesy of answering your question despite your refusing to answer mine. Sin exists because God created it.
Click to expand...
No. God did not create sin.

The simple definition of sin is the word 'avon' meaning to miss the mark. A + E missed the mark and sin was born. AKA disobedience to God.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#39
#39
Lanolin said:
its a silly phrase meant to imply that guns arent dangerous weapons at all.
When we know they are thats why they need to be handled with care or restricted.

Its kind like saying weedkiller doesnt kill weeds, people do. Or poison isnt poisonous.
Click to expand...
There is no comparison there at all. We know what weed killer does. Who do you know that has stated poison is not poison? Does it occur to you that they would have to know what the properties of poison are in order to comment at all? (but of course, no one ever said that :cautious:)

Yes. Let's just restrict all legal gun owners so that criminals will have the only access :rolleyes:
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#40
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#40
VickyK said:
That does not answer my question.

I will afford you the courtesy of answering your question despite your refusing to answer mine. Sin exists because God created it.
Click to expand...
If you believe God created sin you have bigger problems than a quick retort on guns. Are you Christian?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.