Defining Virginty

[RickShafer]

"Sexual intercourse, as coitus or copulation, is the insertion and thrusting of a male's penis into a female's vagina for the purposes of sexual pleasure or reproduction." -Wikipedia, references below:

• ^ Cecie Starr, Beverly McMillan (2008). Human Biology. Cengage Learning. p. 314. ISBN 0495561819,. Retrieved April 30, 2013.
• ^ "Sexual intercourse". Collins English Dictionary. Retrieved September 5, 2012.
• ^ [SUP]a[/SUP] [SUP]b[/SUP] [SUP]c[/SUP] [SUP]d[/SUP] [SUP]e[/SUP] [SUP]f[/SUP] Kar (2005). Comprehensive Textbook of Sexual Medicine. Jaypee Brothers Publishers. pp. 107–112. ISBN 8180614050,. Retrieved September 4, 2012.
• ^ [SUP]a[/SUP] [SUP]b[/SUP] [SUP]c[/SUP] [SUP]d[/SUP] "Sexual Intercourse". health.discovery.com. Archived from the original on 2008-08-22. Retrieved 2008-01-12.

Yes,.......we get that,.......we understand the mechanisms of intercourse.
We are speaking of the different 'spiritual' fact that God can make a new creation.
That old things are passed away and all things become new to that certain one whom He chooses.
Can a man be born again? How can one reenter the womb?
This is the question Nicodemus asked Jesus.
Please read John 3:1-21.

 

[RickShafer]

It feels like this is just people engaging in wishful thinking and playing with words to uphold said wishful thinking.

God is a Spirit.
He is real.
There is no wishful thinking here.
Read John Chapter three.
No one is claiming some sort of witchcraft, this is actual, it is real.

 

[Red_Skull]

Yes,.......we get that,.......we understand the mechanisms of intercourse.
We are speaking of the different 'spiritual' fact that God can make a new creation.
That old things are passed away and all things become new to that certain one whom He chooses.
Can a man be born again? How can one reenter the womb?
This is the question Nicodemus asked Jesus.
Please read John 3:1-21.

I'm sorry, the name of the thread is "Defining Virginity" so I thought I'd try to do that...

Personally I don't think a rape victim is spiritually less pure. But that doesn't justify playing with words. Consentual sex is consentual sex, but rape is a type of intercourse. The word "intercourse" doesn't include the concept of "consent", it's neutral like that.

 

[Red_Skull]

God is a Spirit.
He is real.
There is no wishful thinking here.
Read John Chapter three.
No one is claiming some sort of witchcraft, this is actual, it is real.

I'm not claiming witchcraft either. It seems to me that you have created some kind of straw man and accuse me of being him.

And I don't see what that post has to do with "Defining Virginity".

 

[MissCris]

I didn't post that definition to "effectively end the discussion". I posted it so we could be clear on what virginity meant, because what I got out of the OP was that people were saying that things like accidents could "take" a woman's virginity.

The rest of my previous post was facetious.

fa·ce·tious
fəˈsēSHəs
adjective
adjective: facetious
1.
treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

Also, I like to post definitions. I'm kind of a word nerd.

Anyway, I stand by my original opinion that it's weird for people to be worried about the sexual purity, or virginity, of another human being. This is a topic that should remain between two people who are planning to be married, and God. It's not really a topic for open discussion among the masses...because, as was stated in the OP, people are judgmental and like to point fingers and place blame where it may not even belong. This kind of thing can be avoided if people keep their personal business personal.

 

[RickShafer]

I'm not claiming witchcraft either. It seems to me that you have created some kind of straw man and accuse me of being him.

And I don't see what that post has to do with "Defining Virginity".

I was saying the witchcraft was not on my part.
Obviously there are differences between flesh and spirit, no?

 

[Red_Skull]

The rest of my previous post was facetious.

fa·ce·tious
fəˈsēSHəs
adjective
adjective: facetious
1.
treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

Also, I like to post definitions. I'm kind of a word nerd.

Really? It seemed more like you assumed I didn't have a good enough vocabulary to know what the word meant, making you feel the need to teach me such big words. I hope that wasn't your intent because it sounded kind of condescending.

I didn't post that definition to "effectively end the discussion". I posted it so we could be clear on what virginity meant, because what I got out of the OP was that people were saying that things like accidents could "take" a woman's virginity.

I haven't studied the Bible thoroughly myself, but from what I have heard the Holy Book doesn't bring up the subject of spiritual VS physical Virginity (someone please correct me if I am wrong). My opinion is that a woman does not lose her spiritual virginity if she is raped. She hasn't given any man access to her temple willingly. But -technically-, according to colloquial and textbook definitions, she is not a virgin because she has been penetrated by a male reproductive organ. This does not however mean that she is "tainted". I feel sorry for whoever feels that way.

And if a woman who's been raped is dating a man who has an issue with that, then he is at fault and she deserves someone better and wiser.

Anyway, I stand by my original opinion that it's weird for people to be worried about the sexual purity, or virginity, of another human being. This is a topic that should remain between two people who are planning to be married, and God. It's not really a topic for open discussion among the masses...because, as was stated in the OP, people are judgmental and like to point fingers and place blame where it may not even belong. This kind of thing can be avoided if people keep their personal business personal.

I agree 100%.

 

[Red_Skull]

I was saying the witchcraft was not on my part.
Obviously there are differences between flesh and spirit, no?

Yes, of course. I apologize if I seemed irritable.

I've had a bad day and I can see now that it's showing in my posts. That is not right.

 

[Jordache]

Webster was not divinely inspired to complete the dictionary.

 

[maxwel]

Webster was not divinely inspired to complete the dictionary.

They used to burn people for heresy.

: )

 

[Liamson]

A dictionary is not the Authority on words. The utility of words determine their meaning.

Definitions become outmoded, miscontextualized, obsolete or just miss what the original language is really saying.

 

[1still_waters]

A woman being raped isn't engaging in it for sexual pleasure or reproduction.

 

[Red_Skull]

A woman being raped isn't engaging in it for sexual pleasure or reproduction.

Not the woman, but the man. That definition didn't say anything about mutual pleasure and seemed to be written from the perspective of the male. I see what you're trying to say though, but the term 'sexual intercourse' doesn't include consent, just the physical act or joining of the reproductive organs. Oh well, you seem to have your personal definition and I guess I can't say anything to change that.

We're off topic though, and I've added my two cents already.

God Bless

Paul

 

[MidniteWelder]

We could all form our own different views and opinions of how me "Like" to look at it and what we would "prefer" these types of situations be viewed and looked at.
Although these these situations have been discussed many years ago in how the Lord views them

Deut 22
22 “If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.


23 “If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

It appears that the Lord expects a woman to fight and/or scream for help, lest it looks as though she wasn't too much in objection to the act. There are women who willingly have had sex and then "Later" suggest she was accosted to try and escape any responsibility, or to appear proper in the eyes of others.


25 “But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor, 27 because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.

Even if no one is around it appears as though the Lord still expects the woman to cry for help, because the LORD still hears. One could say they were scared to do anything for fear of being hurt.
Although as a believer in CHRIST and of the Faith we are told not to fear the one who can kill the body.

Now for the case of a woman "NOT PLEDGED" to be married

28 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.

It appears that the Lord views the act serious enough even when not consented ...as a joining of the two becoming one flesh so much to the point that the man even as the offender was called to marry the woman for violating her in the fact of taking her virginity, as well as trying to reap only that which is reserved for marriage.
It looks as though the message here is...We can't have guys and gals going around reaping the benefits of marriage without considering themselves married.

I understand we live in different times today than back then, but at the same time we're told the Lord does not change.

 

[MissCris]

Really? It seemed more like you assumed I didn't have a good enough vocabulary to know what the word meant, making you feel the need to teach me such big words. I hope that wasn't your intent because it sounded kind of condescending.

No, really, I just like to post definitions. That's all. I'm annoying like that
(I absolutely do not mean to come across as condescending ever. EVER. Really. Maybe sarcastic, sure, but it's not nice to insult people's intelligence.
...unless they really deserve it...
No no, I'm kidding, calm down. Really, I'm just weird.)

 

[onlinebuddy]

I know that the question by the OP has been answered above. However, I'd like to add that virginity once lost or taken by force, cannot be reset like a stopwatch timer. Sadly, there is no "clear history" button in life, and this applies to both men and women.

Even after one gets saved, one has to live with the memories of their past experiences, regardless of whether these experiences were consentual or forced. Once a person has submitted to Christ, they are a new creation, and virginity becomes a non-issue.

Isn't it enough that God himself does not want to remember out past (Heb 8:12)? Praise God for his forgiveness and his promises!

 

[adekruif]

A dictionary is not the Authority on words. The utility of words determine their meaning.

Definitions become outmoded, miscontextualized, obsolete or just miss what the original language is really saying.

Word. .....

 

[Ritter]

A dictionary is not the Authority on words. The utility of words determine their meaning.

Definitions become outmoded, miscontextualized, obsolete or just miss what the original language is really saying.

They also tend to lack nuance. Hence why there are multiple definitions for different words.

 

[MidniteWelder]

And sometimes even multiple definitions for the SAME word

Perhaps when its consensual we should start calling it sensual intercourse
Because there is a difference

 

[Liamson]

I feel like this was an attempt to create a loophole wherein a lack of spiritual bearing made a sexual encounter, mean less than something that removes one's virginity.

The possible exploitation of this loophole would be a woman who has kids saying she is a virgin.

Sort of like, I was drunk and it happened. Therefore it doesn't count.

Where is the line, once you make the water muddy?



Personally, I don't care. Maybe if I was 21 again and seriously dating for marriage, I might but I am neither of those things.