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M
I believe it is the enemy who wishes to keep the waters muddied by defiling that which is Gods
Even if by force
For instance The men of Sodom wanting to have relations with the two angels who visited Lot
If supposedly humans cant have relations with angels why the need for Lot to try and protect them
There is more of a spiritual battle which I don't believe all of us see or fully understand.
The devil WANTS people to have the knowledge of good and evil, so we have to make a choice
He will bombard us with evil so that our influences outweigh that which is good.
That keeps the waters muddied, too many choices and confusion could set in.
God wishes us to always choose good...so we must feed ourselves with good, in our minds and our thoughts since we feed not on bread and water alone.
There's something deeper people arent seeing in how the enemy tries to put his chains on people.
If he can defile them, it's almost as though he has them under his submission still instead of fully under Gods submission.
The enemies attacks can be thwarted much more effectively when the enemies plans are known.
Prayer goes a long way, but bad things still happen to good Christians, and even moreso if they arent listening to the holy spirit and abiding by Gods word which gives us the armor we need to resist the evil one so he will flee.
If when Jesus speaks even the angels tremble
Then since we are the Lords, we must be able to let him speak through us too.
Even if by force
For instance The men of Sodom wanting to have relations with the two angels who visited Lot
If supposedly humans cant have relations with angels why the need for Lot to try and protect them
There is more of a spiritual battle which I don't believe all of us see or fully understand.
The devil WANTS people to have the knowledge of good and evil, so we have to make a choice
He will bombard us with evil so that our influences outweigh that which is good.
That keeps the waters muddied, too many choices and confusion could set in.
God wishes us to always choose good...so we must feed ourselves with good, in our minds and our thoughts since we feed not on bread and water alone.
There's something deeper people arent seeing in how the enemy tries to put his chains on people.
If he can defile them, it's almost as though he has them under his submission still instead of fully under Gods submission.
The enemies attacks can be thwarted much more effectively when the enemies plans are known.
Prayer goes a long way, but bad things still happen to good Christians, and even moreso if they arent listening to the holy spirit and abiding by Gods word which gives us the armor we need to resist the evil one so he will flee.
If when Jesus speaks even the angels tremble
Then since we are the Lords, we must be able to let him speak through us too.
I guess it's time for me to chime in after 60+ posts of people attempting to "define" virginity. My opinion is......what does it matter? In my opinion the church has placed soooo much emphasis in virginity that our young adults and teens have completely lost sight of the ball which is sexual purity.
I've heard young people brag about still being virgins when what they really mean is they are "technical virgins." In other words they've engaged in mutual masturbation, oral sex, and for some even anal sex but they're proud of their virginity because they haven't engaged in vaginal intercourse. The church needs to drop the emphasis on virginity which once it's lost can never be regained and ends up leaving many young people feeling as if they are second class citizens among the church because they fell in a moment of weakness or were robbed of their "virtue."
Christ when he encountered people He told them "Go and sin no more," in other words He emphasized the future not the past and He spent a lot of time blasting those who followed the letter of the law (in this case virginity) and completely missed the spirit of the law (sexual purity). We as the church need to forget about the big "V" which once it is lost can never be regained, and shift our emphasis to the true spirit of the scripture which is a lifestyle of sexual purity which cannot be stolen and can be regained.
I've heard young people brag about still being virgins when what they really mean is they are "technical virgins." In other words they've engaged in mutual masturbation, oral sex, and for some even anal sex but they're proud of their virginity because they haven't engaged in vaginal intercourse. The church needs to drop the emphasis on virginity which once it's lost can never be regained and ends up leaving many young people feeling as if they are second class citizens among the church because they fell in a moment of weakness or were robbed of their "virtue."
Christ when he encountered people He told them "Go and sin no more," in other words He emphasized the future not the past and He spent a lot of time blasting those who followed the letter of the law (in this case virginity) and completely missed the spirit of the law (sexual purity). We as the church need to forget about the big "V" which once it is lost can never be regained, and shift our emphasis to the true spirit of the scripture which is a lifestyle of sexual purity which cannot be stolen and can be regained.
M
Correction... in my mind I was thinking of the "fallen angels" who tremble at Jesus name but failed to type it that way.
Oncefallen, i think you have hit the mark here, in what you said.
Within allowing the Lord to speak through us, the language spoken should be more of sexual purity
as opposed to ...excuses or justifications for anything else.
Oncefallen, i think you have hit the mark here, in what you said.
Within allowing the Lord to speak through us, the language spoken should be more of sexual purity
as opposed to ...excuses or justifications for anything else.
I can agree to you to a certain extent. I've seen posts on other forums about some of the 'purity' and virginity movements. One woman was disappointed with her sex life because she had been taught that if she waited, she'd have a great sex life. She posted that she wished she hadn't waited. I pointed out that by waiting, she was abstaining against fornication, which is a sin against God. The issue is loving God and serving him, not how great your sex life is going to feel.
There is also the problem of kids having fornicated and then going to some kind of church event that focuses so much on not losing virginity, and not focusing on staying pure where you are now. The Bible teaches us to abstain from fornication, and that is an important message for those who have sinned and lost their virginity. Like you point out, engaging in other sexual sin is a problem, and a focus exclusively on 'technical virginity' doesn't discourage other sexual sins.
Be that as it may, virginity does have value. That's one of the reasons why it is so awful to rape a virgin. It's a rape, which is awful, but it's also stealing virginity as well, which does have value. The Bible puts some value on virginity. A woman who lost it by playing the harlot in her father's house who got married off as a virgin could be stoned. God allowed Midianite virgins to be spared after a battle, but not wives. When Genesis first describes Rebecca, it tells us that she was beautiful and that she was a virgin. Apparently, both are desirable traits.
Practically, there is research to show that if a bride is a virgin at marriage (or only sleeps with her husband) she is less likely to divorce later on. This day and age, that's a big deal. The Bible warns that even sex with a harlot causes a man to become one flesh with her. Having sex and losing virginity is a big deal. It causes one to become one flesh with another. Even in the case of a rape in the Old Testament, the rapist had to marry his victim if the bride's father would agree to it. This shows how important the issue of two becoming one flesh is.
There is also the problem of kids having fornicated and then going to some kind of church event that focuses so much on not losing virginity, and not focusing on staying pure where you are now. The Bible teaches us to abstain from fornication, and that is an important message for those who have sinned and lost their virginity. Like you point out, engaging in other sexual sin is a problem, and a focus exclusively on 'technical virginity' doesn't discourage other sexual sins.
Be that as it may, virginity does have value. That's one of the reasons why it is so awful to rape a virgin. It's a rape, which is awful, but it's also stealing virginity as well, which does have value. The Bible puts some value on virginity. A woman who lost it by playing the harlot in her father's house who got married off as a virgin could be stoned. God allowed Midianite virgins to be spared after a battle, but not wives. When Genesis first describes Rebecca, it tells us that she was beautiful and that she was a virgin. Apparently, both are desirable traits.
Practically, there is research to show that if a bride is a virgin at marriage (or only sleeps with her husband) she is less likely to divorce later on. This day and age, that's a big deal. The Bible warns that even sex with a harlot causes a man to become one flesh with her. Having sex and losing virginity is a big deal. It causes one to become one flesh with another. Even in the case of a rape in the Old Testament, the rapist had to marry his victim if the bride's father would agree to it. This shows how important the issue of two becoming one flesh is.
The male view on this issue is quite sad.
Seems to be an undo reverence for the hymen.
God can save a destroyer of the church(Saul, later called Paul); but He can't restore a woman's virginity?
Seems to me to be quite an opposite sex issue.
As I see nothing but men objecting to anything else than a hymen as pure.
Honestly, it is sickening.
God can forgive,.....but He can't replace the hymen.
Try seeing though the Spirit instead of the flesh.
Or if you want to really go down the literal road, how can the red heifers be a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ, seeing as He is male and they are female.
Seems to be an undo reverence for the hymen.
God can save a destroyer of the church(Saul, later called Paul); but He can't restore a woman's virginity?
Seems to me to be quite an opposite sex issue.
As I see nothing but men objecting to anything else than a hymen as pure.
Honestly, it is sickening.
God can forgive,.....but He can't replace the hymen.
Try seeing though the Spirit instead of the flesh.
Or if you want to really go down the literal road, how can the red heifers be a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ, seeing as He is male and they are female.
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@Jordache "...It's not our jobs to judge someone's purity. We do not see their hearts..." I agree with this you said. Here, surfing the net, I have seen more "ideas" that would set you upset ... In short, I consider male virginity. I regret having followed the world and by that lost the blessing that comes from God when He made me to be for one woman, but I failed not considering this was important for me.
These days I read Ruth and felt the PURITY of both, Ruth and Booz. She was a widow and obviously lost a piece of her and, Booz, and OLD man, kept part of the purity many lost deluded, in our secularized world and it unholy ideas.
It takes time to understand, but I{m happy there is a happy ending for all human mess.
These days I read Ruth and felt the PURITY of both, Ruth and Booz. She was a widow and obviously lost a piece of her and, Booz, and OLD man, kept part of the purity many lost deluded, in our secularized world and it unholy ideas.
It takes time to understand, but I{m happy there is a happy ending for all human mess.
Hmm. Just curious.
What, then, would be the equivalent of the proof of a "pure male virginity?"
In other words, if men demand a biologically intact part as proof of female virginity... What should women be demanding as proof that a man is "truly" a virgin? So much emphasis is placed on women remaining virgins... Only to find that waiting for a male spouse who is also a virgin... is nearly extinct these days. (Kudos to all who are virgins, and no shame to those who've been forgiven of mistakes. I'm just saying, women alone can't be the primary source of virginity.)
I'm sure you would agree that God has no double standards...
(Actually, I know this is slightly off-topic but it always did bother me that there is an Old Testament test for whether or not the wife is committing adultery... but not for the husband. However, if I remember right, the husband was to be severely punished if he falsely accused her.)
What, then, would be the equivalent of the proof of a "pure male virginity?"
In other words, if men demand a biologically intact part as proof of female virginity... What should women be demanding as proof that a man is "truly" a virgin? So much emphasis is placed on women remaining virgins... Only to find that waiting for a male spouse who is also a virgin... is nearly extinct these days. (Kudos to all who are virgins, and no shame to those who've been forgiven of mistakes. I'm just saying, women alone can't be the primary source of virginity.)
I'm sure you would agree that God has no double standards...
(Actually, I know this is slightly off-topic but it always did bother me that there is an Old Testament test for whether or not the wife is committing adultery... but not for the husband. However, if I remember right, the husband was to be severely punished if he falsely accused her.)
Yeppers. It's always interesting when some people shout from the rooftops that they are a virgin... When in practice, they're doing everything else imaginable but believe they still qualify because they supposedly haven't participated in the "main" event. I had a conversation with a guy once who had not "technically" had sex... But had participated in sexual things with so many women, he lost count. However, he proudly declared himself a "virgin" and felt he "deserved" to marry someone "pure". Hmm... Someone as pure as he was, I would hope?
Personally, I would feel uncomfortable around a guy who had to admit to me that he had been naked with over 22 women (and so many that he couldn't keep track anymore) but yet somehow claimed to be "pure".
I can't speak for anyone else but for myself, God has convicted me that if I am doing things to purposely bring about sexual feelings in another person, or if they are purposely them about in me (mutual consent, NOT abuse), and we are not married to each other... it's wrong. I'm certainly not saying I am somehow sinless, and for whatever reason, these standards may not be everyone else's. If God convicts you differently or doesn't convict you at all, that's between you and Him. I'm just saying though, that sexual sin... "biological virgin" or not... is still sin.
"Purity" has a much wider scope... God calls us to be pure in thought, word, and deed. We all fail, of course. But we are all called to ask for forgiveness, pick ourselves back up, turn our backs on any sin we're participating in, and choose a God-led life.
Personally, I would feel uncomfortable around a guy who had to admit to me that he had been naked with over 22 women (and so many that he couldn't keep track anymore) but yet somehow claimed to be "pure".
I can't speak for anyone else but for myself, God has convicted me that if I am doing things to purposely bring about sexual feelings in another person, or if they are purposely them about in me (mutual consent, NOT abuse), and we are not married to each other... it's wrong. I'm certainly not saying I am somehow sinless, and for whatever reason, these standards may not be everyone else's. If God convicts you differently or doesn't convict you at all, that's between you and Him. I'm just saying though, that sexual sin... "biological virgin" or not... is still sin.
"Purity" has a much wider scope... God calls us to be pure in thought, word, and deed. We all fail, of course. But we are all called to ask for forgiveness, pick ourselves back up, turn our backs on any sin we're participating in, and choose a God-led life.
I agree with Seoulsearch. (which in truth is rarer than either of us will admit 
)
But if someone brings up virginity, then we are talking about virginity. We can't talk about virginity and then call it something its not.
What men are really wanting seeking asking, has nothing to do with a physiological component, it has to do with whether a woman has been sexual with a man.
Otherwise it would be like saying, well I got a flat tire on my way home from work but, it wasn't spiritually flat so I kept driving on it and now here I am.
If you got a flat tire, you got a flat tire.
If you aren't a virgin, you are not a virgin.
) But if someone brings up virginity, then we are talking about virginity. We can't talk about virginity and then call it something its not.
What men are really wanting seeking asking, has nothing to do with a physiological component, it has to do with whether a woman has been sexual with a man.
Otherwise it would be like saying, well I got a flat tire on my way home from work but, it wasn't spiritually flat so I kept driving on it and now here I am.
If you got a flat tire, you got a flat tire.
If you aren't a virgin, you are not a virgin.
G
God forgives. Forgiving ourselves is much more difficult than that. Give your life to Christ and the guy/gal you see WILL see a changed YOU and God is soo great. He can do sooo much to heal us , free us, to the 'great' things of His way for our life, wiping out things of our past with the swipe of His hand. Just trust Him, and, go, faith-fully following Him from whatever it was you were doing before. ASK God for strength to keep form doing that thing you were doing; He will never leave us nor forsake us. WE only need call Him . He is there, in fact, He is inside all those who believe, through faith in Him and what He did 2000 years ago on the cross ,setting you free, from your sins, from death.
I believe all this, I hope, pray you do too.
I believe all this, I hope, pray you do too.