How to overcome illicit sexual viewing

[ServantStrike]

And repressing all desires and then giving no information to be safe, is how we end up with a nation with the highest teen pregnancy rate. But the frustration can ultimately lead to that. Forbidding sex, they turn to porn, need more and more, and are raping and abusing woman because that's the only way they can get aroused - literally the only way.

I never said anything about sexual education. And is this high school or Christian Chat. You think a man of God is going to go raping women?

The advice simple - porn is bad, don't look at it. Masturbation is a grey area that is probably best avoided for a lot of guys.

And men are not for us? In that insinuated? We can just turn off our sex drives on and off like a switch? That is highly stereotypical and naïve. If that's the kind of thing taught in those groups, you're probably compounding the problem by creating a disconnect with the women in their lives by painting them as robots who just flip a switch. Lol wow....

You should have just asked what Men of God say about women instead of making assumptions.

Most of us try to shoulder as much of the burden as possible, to take as much of the pain as possible, and to be as gentle as possible. Real men of God jump on each other for mistreating a woman.

I'm sorry you've never seen that, but your behavior is terrifying - I'm trying to help a man stop inappropriately staring at women and you're mad at me because you think you know how a man thinks better than I do.

Maybe a forum wasn't created because of the stereotypes of men not opening up, which you just confirmed. Why open a forum, pay to maintain it and such, if all that's going to be passed around is jokes and small talk you could put in another forum? And btw, there are sites that have sections for both... which is why I'm a little surprised this one doesn't.

For the brief time it was active, none of us posting in that discussion group on here were telling jokes. We were trying to help each other be better men of God so we could be whole in our relationships with the fairer sex. But it died, like almost any of the groups do, because they're not attached to the forums and people forget about them.

Did you miss the part where I said that being abstinent can actually cause true physical discomfort for a man? Do you honestly believe that any of us would go through that if we weren't trying to be respectful of women?

You confirmed what I was saying - you're the most terrifying thing in the world to a guy who's trying to deal with this kind of problem. You're jumping on one of the few guys dumb enough to speak up about it.



You really ought to try trusting your brothers in Christ a bit better. Some of us would crawl over broken glass to talk to a single woman of God, but not if she's going to tear us down. Why do you think so many guys on here have given up completely? How long do you think a guy can hold on before he goes down the pity party path of "oh well I guess I'm destined to be single." We're supposed to do all the chasing, and we're usually considered woefully inadequate for some reason or another.

ServantStrike - I really enjoyed your post and your being open about your former struggle. There is so much secrecy and shame around sex/sexual sin - and not only in the church that just the topic being breached in a kind fashion is a good one.
I am absolutely sure that a men only discussion would be very helpful, but I think that shedding light on the issue for both men and women is good. I don't think women by-and-large understand men's thinking/desires with regard to sex and what a pull it is. I mean, there is some level of understanding, but it's fairly well glossed over.

Jamie26301 - God has made a release mechanism for men that they experience as pre-pubescence and in their pubescence that I will guess that night-time occurrence might still be in play. God actually does know how humans work, and he does make a way.

I'm glad it was insightful.

I guess I might as well finish looking like an idiot here and say a bit more. This release mechanism you talk about - it's probably the most embarassing thing in the world for a guy - single or not. That doesn't necessarily have to happen.

I don't know what the numbers would look like. There aren't a lot of case studies on abstinent men - not a lot of willing participants.

 

[jamie26301]

The advice simple - porn is bad, don't look at it. Masturbation is a grey area that is probably best avoided for a lot of guys.

Fair enough. Just seems to some people, "just don't" is not comforting nor helpful, because they wouldn't be looking for advice if they could "just don't" as they would've "just don't" to begin with, and avoid this embarrassment of asking that you speak of.

You should have just asked what Men of God say about women instead of making assumptions.

Most of us try to shoulder as much of the burden as possible, to take as much of the pain as possible, and to be as gentle as possible. Real men of God jump on each other for mistreating a woman.

I never said "Christian men" when I spoke of abuse, although in terms of visibility, "Christian" is label like anything else. There have been "Christian men" who abused women/children in the church, so I didn't say Christian or not, but men in general.

And I do not mean to make assumptions about men of God, but I have spoken and had conversations with many male Christians through the years, albeit not about sex. But what you, as a man of God, have to say about women is not going to be identical or even the same as other men of God.

You do not speak for all the men in the Body, as I don't speak for all the women in the Body. And because neither you nor I am all-seeing concerning the Body of Christ, it's kind of arrogant to assume a solution or approach that would work for everyone in the Body. You don't treat a wounded hand the same way you would treat a wounded eye, though the cause could be of the same infliction.

I'm sorry you've never seen that, but your behavior is terrifying - I'm trying to help a man stop inappropriately staring at women and you're mad at me because you think you know how a man thinks better than I do.

Mad? I'm sorry if it appeared to you that way - my manner of writing can often give off a tone I do not intend.

And as I said, I am not a man, and I said several times, I'm not sure how to go about it. Only that I don't think commands on top of despairing to obey commands is going to help. Perhaps I'm wrong; I'm not a man.

For the brief time it was active, none of us posting in that discussion group on here were telling jokes. We were trying to help each other be better men of God so we could be whole in our relationships with the fairer sex. But it died, like almost any of the groups do, because they're not attached to the forums and people forget about them.

I didn't mean that you were all telling jokes, and I misread what you said. I thought you had said that there was no such forum to begin with, and I was stating what it may be. And by jokes, I do not mean crass, crude, or trivial, only that maybe it was thought the forum wouldn't yield something meaningful enough to maintain it, as it costs money to maintain these things.

And it seems to me that if men of God were serious about fellowshipping about this, and they can type fairly well and have internet, that they would be compelled JUST BECAUSE it is there for them. As you mentioned embarrassment, I imagine it's far easier and more comfortable online in text, anyhow where you don't have to share your face or even your real name. And I could go so far as to say, that if they were serious they would "just do it" and I can't fathom typing and scrolling being more painful than sexual frustration. But I don't know the details.

Did you miss the part where I said that being abstinent can actually cause true physical discomfort for a man? Do you honestly believe that any of us would go through that if we weren't trying to be respectful of women?

Sure, men go through that to be respectful - but usually more because of what they're conditioned to believe is right and wrong, the consequences of such behavior, more so than for women. There are TONS of women-respecting masturbating men out there. And believe it or not, some Christian boys are taught that masturbation is acceptable, within certain boundaries.

You confirmed what I was saying - you're the most terrifying thing in the world to a guy who's trying to deal with this kind of problem. You're jumping on one of the few guys dumb enough to speak up about it.

Jumping on you? Again, I apologize if I seem aggressive, but you put forth some pretty condescending statements yourself - of men struggling with this, by insinuating that they are not serious about getting through this problem if they don't just stop, then and there. I have also said multiple times that that could work for some, esp if it is not an addiction. Those statements seem glossed over.

You really ought to try trusting your brothers in Christ a bit better. Some of us would crawl over broken glass to talk to a single woman of God, but not if she's going to tear us down. Why do you think so many guys on here have given up completely? How long do you think a guy can hold on before he goes down the pity party path of "oh well I guess I'm destined to be single." We're supposed to do all the chasing, and we're usually considered woefully inadequate for some reason or another.

Trust? What am I not trusting you with? I accept your experiences, what I don't accept is your insinuation that all experiences are exactly like yours, and all require exactly the same remedy. Even the depictions of Jesus Himself, in personality, emphasis, art, is different across the centuries and across modern Churches, and most reasonable churches accept those differences as legit to that particular congregation.

I understand that talking to single women is something they would do if she "wasn't going to tear him down." But why not "just quit" and eliminate the problem, and you have no reason to fear being torn down for a struggle? Some people (men and women) will judge you on your past, and measure your present character by it, and you don't want those in your life anyway.

If a man wants a woman in his life, he has to accept that he will have to take risks with his feelings, and heart. Many women struggle with the same kinds of insecurities of being judged. But that's not a gender issue, that's a confidence issue.

God bless.

 

[jamie26301]

To put it this way:

As a former Lutheran, I still see the value in the balance of Law and Gospel. We Christians often lay down the hammer of the Law upon someone who has already been beaten by it - this man knows what he is engaging in is not pure and just. He knows he needs to stop. We don't need to tell him that as God has already convicted him, it seems, and he is looking for support, not confirmation of the truth he already knows. Some here has given excellent advice.

That is why this "be serious and just stop" is not a good message. Granted, that's not everyone's message. And I think ServentStrike's suggestion to imagine the suffering women in the porn industry and its connections to other evils is good advice. I believe thinking about their faces in addition is better advice, personally, as it personalizes them into more than just "some female victims out there somewhere that I'm not supposed to look at."

To me, there's a contradictory duality in thinking of someone's suffering while simultaneously thinking of their appearance (face) as something to be pushed from the mind. Their faces make them unique, and distinguishes them from each other as individual creatures of God suffering on individual levels. But like I said before, for some men, that might be more helpful, as it was for ServentStrike. The same thing is not going to work for every single person.

But what I mean is not to permit sin. What I mean is not to arouse sin more by continuing to beat with the Law when it has already done so. Some have left the church, because they sought support but received more Law because they just couldn't fulfill the Law's (or tradition of man's) standards... they didn't receive grace. And I'm sorry, ServentStrike, if you think I fail to show you compassion. I think you failed to show the OP compassion, which was why I lashed out. You never condemned him directly, but oversimplified his struggle, imo, and that's what I was addressing.

God bless everyone.

 

[jamie26301]

NASB
Romans 3

5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.) 6 May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? 7 But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the Godof Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 4

13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. 20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, a sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Romans 7

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

The Conflict of Two Natures

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

 

[jamie26301]

And no, God isn't taking away any one's hormones. The trick is to pray like crazy and develop coping strategies to keep them in check. It can and does work provided the desire to change is there. It isn't necessarily instant, or easy, but it's possible.

Ah, you did mention this, and I'm sorry that I missed it.

 

[nzlotrfan]

Does anyone else here want to band together an accountability and support group for those of us (including myself) struggling with porn, and trying to genuinely stop? I know we'd be strangers at first, but I still wonder if it's a good idea. Let me know if anyone is interested.

 

[Olerica]

I think it would be an excellent idea, but I think the gentlemen should discuss it in a place that would be/feel safer for them: Men only perhaps?

 

[ServantStrike]

I think it would be an excellent idea, but I think the gentlemen should discuss it in a place that would be/feel safer for them: Men only perhaps?

Does anyone else here want to band together an accountability and support group for those of us (including myself) struggling with porn, and trying to genuinely stop? I know we'd be strangers at first, but I still wonder if it's a good idea. Let me know if anyone is interested.

Link's in my signature bro - mens discussion group.

It'd be nice to get the band back together and get some new members.

 

[ServantStrike]

Link's in my signature bro - mens discussion group.

It'd be nice to get the band back together and get some new members.

Oh, and bring friends. That group isn't just for the struggling, it's for the strong too.


Iron sharpening iron.

 

[yorkaa30]

For the last year I have been in a relationship with my girlfriend and we are sexually active with the exception of the traditional form of sex which we are able to resist as we are not married. For this 12 months I haven't watched any porn as she is all I need. I came clean that before her I did watch a lot of porn, but she didn't seem too harshly phased by this sexual viewing. Both her and I are practising christians, we don't pretend to be perfect model ones as there is no such thing, but we sure do love God, and figure that our best way to stay focused on each other is to be how we are. Works for us. Basically I just want you guys to know that some awesome christian girls are christ-centred and will be super understanding when you talk about your pasts with illicit sexual viewing, so kudos to that!

 

[biabia]

For the last year I have been in a relationship with my girlfriend and we are sexually active with the exception of the traditional form of sex which we are able to resist as we are not married. For this 12 months I haven't watched any porn as she is all I need. I came clean that before her I did watch a lot of porn, but she didn't seem too harshly phased by this sexual viewing. Both her and I are practising christians, we don't pretend to be perfect model ones as there is no such thing, but we sure do love God, and figure that our best way to stay focused on each other is to be how we are. Works for us. Basically I just want you guys to know that some awesome christian girls are christ-centred and will be super understanding when you talk about your pasts with illicit sexual viewing, so kudos to that!

"will be super understanding when you talk about your pasts with illicit sexual viewing."

What do you mean by super understanding? Like...?? Because I don't seem to be super understanding..... porn, especially past porn. Porn is Porn. It's an addiction.

 

[yorkaa30]

"will be super understanding when you talk about your pasts with illicit sexual viewing."

What do you mean by super understanding? Like...?? Because I don't seem to be super understanding..... porn, especially past porn. Porn is Porn. It's an addiction.

I mean she was so careful not to think any less of me for having done so. I am not my addiction, and she didn't blow it out of proportion, just the right amount. There were times when I thought it simply made me the worst, but it was my addition, not me. And we're still turning out good.

 

[Oncefallen]

For the last year I have been in a relationship with my girlfriend and we are sexually active with the exception of the traditional form of sex which we are able to resist as we are not married. For this 12 months I haven't watched any porn as she is all I need. I came clean that before her I did watch a lot of porn, but she didn't seem too harshly phased by this sexual viewing. Both her and I are practising christians, we don't pretend to be perfect model ones as there is no such thing, but we sure do love God, and figure that our best way to stay focused on each other is to be how we are. Works for us. Basically I just want you guys to know that some awesome christian girls are christ-centred and will be super understanding when you talk about your pasts with illicit sexual viewing, so kudos to that!

So basically you replaced one sexual sin with another.......I'm pointing this out not to condemn, but to correct a flawed view of Biblical sexuality.

When you read through the whole of Scripture the continuous theme (in regards to human sexuality) is sexual purity, not virginity. Unfortunately it seems that the idea sexual purity has become so centered on virginity these days that all too many people actually think that they can do anything except for vaginal intercourse and still be OK in God's eyes.

 

[Desdichado]

As for porn, in M*A*S*H, Colonel Flagg learned not to laugh by jabbing a cattle prod in his groin every time he cracked a smile while watching The Three Stooges. Then of course there is my favorite anecdote of St. Benedict when he tossed himself into a thorn bush when he sensed he was getting hot under the collar.

Short answer- whatever it takes, ladies and gents.

 

[Practice-English]

Think about God
and stop doing like that....
Don't watch any vulgar videos!!!