"If You Want to Have Sex, Get Married." Ok. But What If You Want to Have Sex, and You're ALREADY Married?
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And what if the cause is medical and not yet known?
What if the wife is going through changes that make sex painful, but doesn't know why?
What if the husband refuses sex because he's having problems with impotence and is trying to hide it from his wife out of shame?
Are they then to be publicly shamed before the church?
What if the wife is going through changes that make sex painful, but doesn't know why?
What if the husband refuses sex because he's having problems with impotence and is trying to hide it from his wife out of shame?
Are they then to be publicly shamed before the church?
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Meetings went well.
Narrow Gate Meeting was excellent...my partner and I meetings after that weren't so fun. He's as lost as last years Easter Egg even though I've repeated the same things over and over again.
Property possession changes the business model slightly every time. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Butvwe are working towards the exact same goal as I originally presented him with. The only things shifting is how we arrive at the end goal business model and how long it takes to arrive there.
We have had the same plan
Our menu has been a constant up to this point. But for whatever reason he can't remember anything on it except for what he has eaten.
And our menu will expand...as volume increases so does our ability to expand our menu. Some customers will have a cake recipe they want made. Some customers will want specific things but have no recipe. Some will have copywritten recipes....we are a bakery...we bake and charge money for baked goods.
I can envision a bread route that will sell $5k/wk in goods every week on average. Making for $250k/yr in sales. Enough to pay for truck, driver, and my salary plus on a regular basis.
And that's not working hard...that's just regular stuff. $200 every time the truck stops is not difficult for a bread truck. (30-40 loaves) So what if it doesn't make the same stop every day of the week. Most sandwich shops go through 5 loaves every day on a slow day. (Bread freezes well)
I got tire patched and they scolded me for running 5k over the miles recommended before they got rotated. But now I got a brake job this weekend to do and I gotta get my tools. Uggghhhh....never ends.
I haven't tried the cake yet but wifey says it's awesome. Lots of cherries, cream, and right amount of brandy. A hair on the stiff side. So I'll know what to look for. See if it's dry or what...I can increase the kirsch syrup mopping if needed.
Narrow Gate Meeting was excellent...my partner and I meetings after that weren't so fun. He's as lost as last years Easter Egg even though I've repeated the same things over and over again.
Property possession changes the business model slightly every time. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Butvwe are working towards the exact same goal as I originally presented him with. The only things shifting is how we arrive at the end goal business model and how long it takes to arrive there.
We have had the same plan
Our menu has been a constant up to this point. But for whatever reason he can't remember anything on it except for what he has eaten.
And our menu will expand...as volume increases so does our ability to expand our menu. Some customers will have a cake recipe they want made. Some customers will want specific things but have no recipe. Some will have copywritten recipes....we are a bakery...we bake and charge money for baked goods.
I can envision a bread route that will sell $5k/wk in goods every week on average. Making for $250k/yr in sales. Enough to pay for truck, driver, and my salary plus on a regular basis.
And that's not working hard...that's just regular stuff. $200 every time the truck stops is not difficult for a bread truck. (30-40 loaves) So what if it doesn't make the same stop every day of the week. Most sandwich shops go through 5 loaves every day on a slow day. (Bread freezes well)
I got tire patched and they scolded me for running 5k over the miles recommended before they got rotated. But now I got a brake job this weekend to do and I gotta get my tools. Uggghhhh....never ends.
I haven't tried the cake yet but wifey says it's awesome. Lots of cherries, cream, and right amount of brandy. A hair on the stiff side. So I'll know what to look for. See if it's dry or what...I can increase the kirsch syrup mopping if needed.
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My thoughts are that the steps are for the wife exclusively and not the husband. Regarding Step 1, for either spouse, no rebukes but rather honest conversation about what is happening. I do not agree at all with the rest of the steps, especially the last 2. It is none of the church's business what transpires or doesn't transpire in the bedroom of the husband and wife. Any husband who would subject his wife to that nonsense is a fool.
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K
Yikes!! If my hubby tried this on me we'd be having a come to Jesus moment he wouldn't soon forget. Wow,She's not a bad kid! And secondly it assumes the wife is the one that doesn't want sex. What if it's the husband? No more tools until you come across young man!! rofl Sounds very childish. I think if there is a problem you sit down and try to talk things out. If you can't get past it, then go for counseling.
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Hmm, bread route and custom cakes... How far out will this route extend from home base? 
And I didn't waste a crumb.
Brandy, dried cherries cooked into a compote, lots of chocolate cake and whipped cream. It was delicious.
And I wanted coffee the whole time. But that's exactly what you want to happen at a coffee shop.
And of course I'd love to have you come by....I just gotta know when and I'll set up a special tasting just for you. How's that sound?
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The vast majority of people would not want to have sex with someone who didn't want to have sex. But that doesn't mean they would no longer want to have sex. That is to say: that's true, but so what? You haven't solved anything.
True story... In the church I grew up in, there was this situation, where sex was denied to a spouse. The person denied had an affair with a married person in the church. That married couple left the church. Years later that same denied person had an affair with another married person in the church. They stayed. Years later that same denied person divorced their spouse and the person they had an affair with also divorced their spouse (this was the family that left the church) and got married. This person denied was my good friend's mother.
That whole thing (the Steps) strikes me as very weird... but then I can't really relate. But what if we took a closer look?
I think, perhaps, we are just to assume these 'Steps' are when the other 'obvious 2022 things' were already addressed, and it's just a matter of the wife being obstinate, immature and selfish. That is to say, it's already known it's not a medical reason... The husband wants to go to a counselor, doctor and sex therapist... he wants to know what's wrong and is willing to work to make things right. He wants to listen and talk to her, be mentally intimate, do the dishes and help with the kids, hug, caress, massage, take her out and romance her... whatever she needs, work it through.
So what if we assume she's medically able, the husband is willing to fix things, but she's just unwilling? Then what would you suggest?
Firstly, Paul is pretty clear on the issue: 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 3 "The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
Would you suggest divorce? An affair? Let have her way without any consequences? The modern psychologist would tell us we should not let people mistreat us. That's not good for either person and a poor foundation. It is and leads to disrespect, and to disaster. These 'Steps' are asserting consequences with the purpose of reestablishing a healthy marriage relationship. It seems 'tit-for-tat'... granted; nobody wants that... but the alternative is allowing the closest person to you to mistreat you.
True story... In the church I grew up in, there was this situation, where sex was denied to a spouse. The person denied had an affair with a married person in the church. That married couple left the church. Years later that same denied person had an affair with another married person in the church. They stayed. Years later that same denied person divorced their spouse and the person they had an affair with also divorced their spouse (this was the family that left the church) and got married. This person denied was my good friend's mother.
That whole thing (the Steps) strikes me as very weird... but then I can't really relate. But what if we took a closer look?
I think, perhaps, we are just to assume these 'Steps' are when the other 'obvious 2022 things' were already addressed, and it's just a matter of the wife being obstinate, immature and selfish. That is to say, it's already known it's not a medical reason... The husband wants to go to a counselor, doctor and sex therapist... he wants to know what's wrong and is willing to work to make things right. He wants to listen and talk to her, be mentally intimate, do the dishes and help with the kids, hug, caress, massage, take her out and romance her... whatever she needs, work it through.
So what if we assume she's medically able, the husband is willing to fix things, but she's just unwilling? Then what would you suggest?
Firstly, Paul is pretty clear on the issue: 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 3 "The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
Would you suggest divorce? An affair? Let have her way without any consequences? The modern psychologist would tell us we should not let people mistreat us. That's not good for either person and a poor foundation. It is and leads to disrespect, and to disaster. These 'Steps' are asserting consequences with the purpose of reestablishing a healthy marriage relationship. It seems 'tit-for-tat'... granted; nobody wants that... but the alternative is allowing the closest person to you to mistreat you.
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T
A divorce is probably better than a tit for tat game for life, and likely both people will be happier with the divorce, however I am not sure if this is a Biblical answer. According to the author of the article I posted above, this is a Biblical response. An affair is adultery and I would consider that far worse. The couple needs to reach common ground; they could be differences in level or interest, libido levels, enjoyment levels, etc. That's why there should be compromise instead of "sex on demand" which only benefits one party. There are also other natural causes why women do not have frequent sex. The real reason nearly HALF of older women do not have frequent sex is because of pain/discomfort issues, so I believe the guy cannot expect frequent sex if this is the case. Also, let's not forget that during Biblical times, couples did not have sex when the woman had her period (one week per month) as this was considered unclean. So, when the Bible says do not deprive eachother, I believe this means don't deprive eachother over an extended period, not necessarily deprive eachother of what could be considered unreasonable demands.
https://nypost.com/2017/10/18/the-real-reason-older-women-stop-having-sex/
https://nypost.com/2017/10/18/the-real-reason-older-women-stop-having-sex/
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K
I haven't gotten all the way through and I see all kinds of issues people here would have with this. We shut down an entire thread over this discussion. There are a lot of contention points here.
As mentioned above, this is pretty straightforward. Sex between a husband and a wife should be common. That doesn’t necessarily mean every single day, but it should be prevalent. Often, not seldom. Sex is integral to the marriage relationship. It is due, Paul explains in verse 3, a right, happily owed by one another to one another. Verse 4 tells us the husband’s body is under the authority of his wife, and the wife’s under her husband, and, as verse 5 says, the two should not deprive one another.
If you stopped here and took a poll I think the vast majority would disagree with most of the underlined portion.
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T
The reason people disagree is that imposing sex on a person who doesn't want it either through pressure or punishment (like the article I posted) seems almost like a human rights violation. Sex should be common, if both people want it. It is a sign of a healthy marriage, if both people want it. But at the same time, I admit a person signs up for regular sex when they enter marriage. But the reality is that people change over time due to a host of reasons (mental, natural causes, etc.), including their desires, and I admit it is unfair to the other person. It really feels unfair to both people, not just the person being denied sex.
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