Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

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Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to Toughen Up a Nice Guy?

  • Nice guys should be left the way they are! That's what makes them nice!

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Even nice guys can use a little help.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A nice guy would appreciate a woman trying to make suggestions to him out of her concern for him.

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • A nice guy would be totally offended by the idea of a woman trying to "toughen him up."

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nice guys are afraid to "toughen up" because they don't want to be jerks.

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • If a nice guy needs help, he'll ask--otherwise, leave him alone.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nice guys are a little in the dark about these things and need a helping hand when it comes to stand

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Nice guys want to be more assertive, but aren't sure how without sounding like jerks.

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • I am a nice guy and wish a woman would give me some pointers.

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I am a nice guy and don't need your help, thanks!

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I am a woman who has passed up some great nice guys but would have said yes if they had been more co

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I am a woman who's met great nice guys... but wish they had more of a backbone.

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • I am a woman who had a crush on a nice guy and would have said yes if he had asked me out.

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • I am a woman who would ask out a nice guy (what holds you back?)

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I have another opinion that I'll share in my post.

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • Total voters
    10

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,943
4,587
113
#21
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Hmm... abrasive... that's really a shame if I come across as being that way because it's certainly not my intention. When I said, "become upset", I don't mean that I am somehow yelling or hollering at the person or calling them names!!!

What I mean is, using my examples... With Shawn, as I said, he was stopping to help people on a major highway late at night and lives in a major city by a well-known prison. When I say that I "get upset", it means that I will say something such as, "Will you PLEASE stop doing this by yourself, I'm REALLY worried about you possibly stopping to help someone who's DANGEROUS... I don't want to get a phone call telling me that you got hurt or, heaven forbid, killed, when you could have called the police to help them and at least looked out for your own safety. It would seriously mess me up to know someone had harmed you because of how much you care about people... It's wonderful that you do, but maybe there's a better way to go about it?" I guess what I was trying to tell him was, "I like you, I really care about you, and I hope you're around for a long time!!" THAT'S what I mean when I said I get upset.

With Ryan, as I said, all I could do was shake my head slightly and laugh. I was frustrated in my heart because I hate seeing negative things happen to a positive person, but no, I didn't yell, holler, or call him names. I try my best to communicate well and I had told him at other times (we had a night when our shifts overlapped and we usually got to talk for a few minutes) that the reason I was concerned is because he was getting into trouble for things that weren't his fault--if he would stand up to people and tell them they needed to stay their entire shift, he wouldn't be getting in trouble.

One of the things I liked about Ryan is that he was usually polite, cheerful, and genuinely concerned about people. I'd see him on a day when he'd be really down and would ask what's wrong, and he'd tell me about getting in trouble with our bosses because such and such work didn't get gone. But it WOULD have gotten done if he didn't let people didn't just walk over him and tell him they were leaving.

So, what I told him is that I really enjoyed his positive attitude but really felt bad when I saw him having a bad day that shouldn't really be happening to him. He was a hard worker who deserved more than to get in trouble for other people's decision to slack off, and I told him I hoped he wasn't mad at me for mentioning it but I was concerned about him. He and I had a pretty open friendship and he got used to me saying, "Is it ok if I ask you about..." He used to call the nights we worked together "Kim and Ryan bonding time."

I can't apologize for caring about these people but I will certainly pray and reconsider my approach. I appreciate the feedback--it helps me become a better communicator. I can see that I also need to better communicate my original posts as well :).
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#22
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Hmm... abrasive... that's really a shame if I come across as being that way because it's certainly not my intention. When I said, "become upset", I don't mean that I am somehow yelling or hollering at the person or calling them names!!!

What I mean is, using my examples... With Shawn, as I said, he was stopping to help people on a major highway late at night and lives in a major city by a well-known prison. When I say that I "get upset", it means that I will say something such as, "Will you PLEASE stop doing this by yourself, I'm REALLY worried about you possibly stopping to help someone who's DANGEROUS... I don't want to get a phone call telling me that you got hurt or, heaven forbid, killed, when you could have called the police to help them and at least looked out for your own safety. It would seriously mess me up to know someone had harmed you because of how much you care about people... It's wonderful that you do, but maybe there's a better way to go about it?" I guess what I was trying to tell him was, "I like you, I really care about you, and I hope you're around for a long time!!" THAT'S what I mean when I said I get upset.

With Ryan, as I said, all I could do was shake my head slightly and laugh. I was frustrated in my heart because I hate seeing negative things happen to a positive person, but no, I didn't yell, holler, or call him names. I try my best to communicate well and I had told him at other times (we had a night when our shifts overlapped and we usually got to talk for a few minutes) that the reason I was concerned is because he was getting into trouble for things that weren't his fault--if he would stand up to people and tell them they needed to stay their entire shift, he wouldn't be getting in trouble.

One of the things I liked about Ryan is that he was usually polite, cheerful, and genuinely concerned about people. I'd see him on a day when he'd be really down and would ask what's wrong, and he'd tell me about getting in trouble with our bosses because such and such work didn't get gone. But it WOULD have gotten done if he didn't let people didn't just walk over him and tell him they were leaving.

So, what I told him is that I really enjoyed his positive attitude but really felt bad when I saw him having a bad day that shouldn't really be happening to him. He was a hard worker who deserved more than to get in trouble for other people's decision to slack off, and I told him I hoped he wasn't mad at me for mentioning it but I was concerned about him. He and I had a pretty open friendship and he got used to me saying, "Is it ok if I ask you about..." He used to call the nights we worked together "Kim and Ryan bonding time."

I can't apologize for caring about these people but I will certainly pray and reconsider my approach. I appreciate the feedback--it helps me become a better communicator. I can see that I also need to better communicate my original posts as well :).
-----+------
Yeah, I see the caring part of guy picking up strangers on road to prison, Kim. That is great, girls should show that nice caring to guys . :)

What words and phrases clued me in that you were being potentially abrasive are 'repeatedly' tellling a guy to do things different and 'begging' a guy to do different at something.


I am sure , sadly, you are not alone but you also said you paid some of these nice guys bills...insurance, rent, etc.
.
So, yeah, the Lord will lead you to His way for your situation, pray to Him for how He wants you to, as Ug said, to encourage and help them want to change their habits hurting their Godly plans for their nice-guy (LOL) lives :)
 
L

Liz01

Guest
#23
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

I agree with you GreenNnice.... maybe God is preparing these guys for missionaries.....
 
K

KiwiCA

Guest
#25
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

If I want a guy to 'harden up' so to speak I ask God to do it. It depends of the guy if I would have dated them (theoretically). My husband is a 'nice guy' but hes also highly intelligent and no pushover. I know for a fact that if I said something manipulative or harsh he would call me on it and gently rebuke me.
But if I feel he needs to grow over something I know I can't do it only God. I am a woman, and most often in order to grow and be 'hard' men, I am hardly equipped to bestow masculinity on my husband by force. So I pray to God and ask him to do it, or provide Godly mature men to help him. Works every time. All I need to do is be his wife and support and encourage him.
 

AAAPlus

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2011
601
10
18
#26
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Very entertaining thread topic. A couple of thoughts...

One, the guys you described do sound like pushovers, which is probably not very attractive. A girl does and should want a guy who will take care of her, but in our culture (i.e. Western/American culture) there aren't exactly predators at every corner. Having a timid guy wouldn't really be that much of a disadvantage.

But still, there are still areas where a man just needs to be a man and step up. And every girls wants a "mans man", a macho man who is strong and confident. But to a point, is this really Biblical? The Bible says to think of ourselves as less, and consider others as more important than ourselves. A strong manly man doesn't do this, while a "nice guy" generally has this down quite well.

Girls go for the strong, abrasive guy over the nice guy because our culture views him as more attractive, but in reality those same attractive traits can also lead to physical and emotional abuse. With a nice guy, this is way less likely to happen because he is humble in spirit and keeps his testosterone in check.

And on top of everything, girls that have been with a macho guy say they want a nice guy, and girls with nice guys often leave them for macho guys. Make up your minds!!
 
Oct 7, 2011
344
12
18
#27
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

If there's one thing I've learned from dating all these years, is that you can NEVER change anyone. So why bother trying?? Either you like them or you don't. Simple as that.. And heaven forbid...don't try to change the nice guys!!! There are far too many jerks and not enough nice guys. You can give them all to me!

And I truly believe there is a difference between being a "nice guy" and being a "doormat". Just sayin'.
 

BillyTheKid

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2009
274
2
18
#28
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

I am a momma's boy. Always have been always will be. When a woman tries to change who I am thats when I show her the sidewalk and tell her to hit it. :)
 

acesneverwin

Senior Member
Jun 8, 2011
186
12
18
#29
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

But still, there are still areas where a man just needs to be a man and step up. And every girls wants a "mans man", a macho man who is strong and confident. But to a point, is this really Biblical? The Bible says to think of ourselves as less, and consider others as more important than ourselves. A strong manly man doesn't do this, while a "nice guy" generally has this down quite well. !
Eh... the usual nice guy does it cause it because they feel less already and want to please everyone and have no respect for themselves. This is different than being confident in yourself and STILL thinking of others as more important. Pretend there is a scale:

Less---------Neutral--------More.

A guy who already thinks of himself as less, everyone else is seen as more by default. But a guy who is confident in himself yet is able to see everyone else as more is much more healthy and more of what I think he was getting at in the bible. He's able to stand up for others and his family where a "nice guy" in the less spot may feel worthless, not stand up for others and sacrifice the well being of his family for the sake of pleasing others or "being nice". A lot of guys who are confident and strong see them as more than everyone else and are quite cocky. That's not good either. You should be secure in the person God made you yet able to see everyone else as more. Not seeing everyone as more because you think you are less of a human than everyone else...

Not saying this is every "nice guy" but yeah...

And when I think of a nice guy, I'm generally talking doormats and those with no confidence. That's just what pops into my head when people say nice guy. A guy who has confidence is what I would call a "good" man. So just to clear that up... I know different things pop into peoples heads with this... but the two in the OT definately sound like nice guys ie, no confidence and people pleasers.
 
Last edited:

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,943
4,587
113
#30
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Ok, everyone :D -- message heard, loud and clear. DO NOT try to change anyone. Check.

I wonder though... if in some ways, we can all expect to be single for an indefinite amount of time, and perhaps the rest of our lives.

I'm just speaking for myself but I often wonder if God has kept me single for so many years because of things I need to change, both through Him and through others' prompting... and if I won't change, or won't be open to it, maybe He'll never lead me to the person He might have had for me? I've come to a place where I don't mind if people try to change me for the better (this thread is a good example, I really do take the answers to heart and prayer and know that God is using it to change me.)

But sometimes I wonder, how much do I have to be willing to change? And if I don't change enough, should I just expect that God will keep me alone, even though I'm sure He'll be able to use it for a purpose?

Dunno... just thinking out loud...
 

BillyTheKid

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2009
274
2
18
#31
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst :) Excellent motto
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#32
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Ok, everyone :D -- message heard, loud and clear. DO NOT try to change anyone. Check.

I wonder though... if in some ways, we can all expect to be single for an indefinite amount of time, and perhaps the rest of our lives.

I'm just speaking for myself but I often wonder if God has kept me single for so many years because of things I need to change, both through Him and through others' prompting... and if I won't change, or won't be open to it, maybe He'll never lead me to the person He might have had for me? I've come to a place where I don't mind if people try to change me for the better (this thread is a good example, I really do take the answers to heart and prayer and know that God is using it to change me.)

But sometimes I wonder, how much do I have to be willing to change? And if I don't change enough, should I just expect that God will keep me alone, even though I'm sure He'll be able to use it for a purpose?

Dunno... just thinking out loud...
---
Ask God (through prayer) how much and how He wants you to change seoulsearching. God will tell you, I guarantee it. His timing, but, in time, shirt or long. And, and, it may be a painful timeline to the time ready, but he will always honor our prayer requests if we ask in His name and, I will add, with the right motives from our heart. :)
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,943
4,587
113
#33
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

---
Ask God (through prayer) how much and how He wants you to change seoulsearching. God will tell you, I guarantee it. His timing, but, in time, shirt or long. And, and, it may be a painful timeline to the time ready, but he will always honor our prayer requests if we ask in His name and, I will add, with the right motives from our heart. :)
Don't worry, Green :) -- I can only speak for myself, but God uses people to change me a lot and keep my motives clean. One of the things I've done while being single is some work in prison ministry, and it's a very eye-opening thing to have guys in their 20's and for rape and murder vehemently question the motives of your heart. One told me I only help people to help myself.

Sure, it really stings at first, but I figured I could either be bitter about it or go to God about it. So, I went on this long journey of really examining my own heart and going to my mentors for accountability and prayer, because if this was who I really was, I wanted to change (they didn't think this statement was true, but I learned the value of accountability.) In the end, it was well worth it because it gave me a stronger sense of who I am (and who I am not), especially in the face of criticism. Some things may be true and I may need to change, and some things may be misunderstood.

I found it interesting that the general thought here is "Don't change me, and don't change anyone else," which I can surely see... but I to try to keep an open mind that God wants us to change--there are things about us that will always need changing, and while I know that GOD is ultimately the one who chooses what needs changing and has to do the work, He usually chooses to change me personally through other people.

I will try my best to stop trying to change anyone else though! I'm going to ask God to help me work on being more encouraging to people, not just nice guys, but everyone I'm around.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#34
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Don't worry, Green :) -- I can only speak for myself, but God uses people to change me a lot and keep my motives clean. One of the things I've done while being single is some work in prison ministry, and it's a very eye-opening thing to have guys in their 20's and for rape and murder vehemently question the motives of your heart. One told me I only help people to help myself.

Sure, it really stings at first, but I figured I could either be bitter about it or go to God about it. So, I went on this long journey of really examining my own heart and going to my mentors for accountability and prayer, because if this was who I really was, I wanted to change (they didn't think this statement was true, but I learned the value of accountability.) In the end, it was well worth it because it gave me a stronger sense of who I am (and who I am not), especially in the face of criticism. Some things may be true and I may need to change, and some things may be misunderstood.

I found it interesting that the general thought here is "Don't change me, and don't change anyone else," which I can surely see... but I to try to keep an open mind that God wants us to change--there are things about us that will always need changing, and while I know that GOD is ultimately the one who chooses what needs changing and has to do the work, He usually chooses to change me personally through other people.

I will try my best to stop trying to change anyone else though! I'm going to ask God to help me work on being more encouraging to people, not just nice guys, but everyone I'm around.
---
That's my best advice, Seoulsearching, well, that and saying to invest in Samsung :D

I am all adviced out, I don't worry either, the Lord leads, I must read what people say, as the Lord leads me, and then direct my answers as He would have me answer and I always think it's terrible when a girl gets sucked in by a guy to pay their bills . But I don't know t he whole of a lot of these situations and God's plans are not mine and God's thinking is not mine. So,.... God bless you, Seoul, you seem changed by what's happened with your relationships of 'nice guys' and so I may need a new nic for you :D
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#35
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

I agree with you GreenNnice.... maybe God is preparing these guys for missionaries.....
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I don't want to go 100% out on the line but 99.9999% of the time I agree with you, lizzytheone. :D :)
 
N

NodMyHeadLikeYeah

Guest
#36
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

I don't think you a can toughen up a nice guy, because there overly niceness is usually because there people pleasers or mommas boys who can't seem to cut the cord, some are just total pushovers who can't stand up for themselves, I think this nice guy stuff, really is just personality flaws.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#37
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

I like nice guys...but I think they're scared of me...:rolleyes::(

I don't think we should try to change anyone. We are who we are.

As Marilyn Monroe and Kurt Cobain once said, "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not."
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,031
3,270
113
#38
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

I don't think you a can toughen up a nice guy, because there overly niceness is usually because there people pleasers or mommas boys who can't seem to cut the cord, some are just total pushovers who can't stand up for themselves, I think this nice guy stuff, really is just personality flaws.
I have to heartily disagree. I most definitely am not a mama's boy, people pleaser or pushover. I am however am a legitimately nice guy who has a heart for people. Yes, some people have chosen to take advantage of my good nature, but that doesn't make me a pushover.
 
N

NodMyHeadLikeYeah

Guest
#39
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

I have to heartily disagree. I most definitely am not a mama's boy, people pleaser or pushover. I am however am a legitimately nice guy who has a heart for people. Yes, some people have chosen to take advantage of my good nature, but that doesn't make me a pushover.
Yes, but who has said your a nice guy?? Are there women saying this or are you just thinking you are?
 
B

BananaPie

Guest
#40
Re: Is It Possible (Or Even Ethical) To Try to "Toughen Up" a "Nice Guy"?

Well, what does it mean to be “a nice guy?”

The OP provided, IMO, two examples of guys who lack prudence, frankly.
“Shawn” is not prudent regarding his own safety and in regards to utilizing sound judgment for personal finances.
“Ryan” lacks prudence in regards to his job responsibilities.


The OP provided, IMO, sound advice to a co-worker and to a friend. I don’t see the OP seeking to change anybody; she was kindly making use of her prudence by being an honest friend and being honest with herself with respect to live-long commitments.

So, what are traits of “a nice guy?”

Here’s one trait: a guy who takes care of his elderly mother, his own household and still has time to watch out for his elderly neighbor (ie. Mowing their lawn or making grocery run, for examples); he is a nice guy.

What say you?