Looking For a Traditional Man...

[Mitspa]

SORRY, EVERYONE.

AS MUCH AS I APPRECIATE EVERYONE TRYING TO INTERPRET THE THREAD outside of the context of the original post, IT WASN'T MEANT AS A MOCKERY AT ALL.

I was genuinely interested in a counter-discussion of what a traditional man was in light of all the talk about traditional women, especially in terms of a traditional man providing for the household, which is why I kept asking those questions. Just wanted to know what people thought of when they think of a "traditional man." That is all.


It's the same thing as when someone started a "Ways to Lose Your Man Card" thread and so one of the ladies tried a "Ways to Lose Your Woman Card" thread. No big deal.

I have a feeling that even if people wouldn't have misinterpreted it, there wouldn't have been much discussion anyway. For whatever reasons, the term "traditional woman" always seems to draw a much bigger firestorm.

Any time there's a question about what I'd intended or hoped for a thread, just ask!

I would love to talk about how God blesses a godly man to provide for his family ...but that another sensitive issue here on the forum....

 

[proverbs35]

What did Jesus say about tradition?

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” 9And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother, and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 11But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13

In light of Jesus' words about tradition, I'm a lot less concerned about "traditional" and a lot more concerned about virtuous.

He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD (Pr 18:22). The man finds, and it's up to the woman to accept or not. A Biblically educated and informed woman needs to be able to inspect a suitor's fruit (Mt 7:15-20).

On the "looking for a traditional girl thread" someone mentioned the Pr 31 woman. Many of the core traits and duties listed in Pr 31 are mutual, collective and congregational. In other words, many of the core traits and duties listed in Pr 31:10-31 are for men too. Contrary to popular belief, many of the core traits and duties listed there are not exclusively feminine.

Mutual Traits/Duties Listed in Pr 31:

A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies (v.10).
The word translated as noble, virtuous, excellent, capable, diligent, strong, valiant and worthy (depending on the Bible translation) meansCHAYIL in Hebrew. CHAYIL (Strong’s 2428) means strength, the strength of a warrior. The word CHAYIL is also used to describe mighty men of valor in the Bible: Josh 1:14, 6:2; Judg 6:12. This Hebrew word (CHAYIL) translated noble, virtuous, etc. in Pr 31:10 is not a distinctly feminine description. Men can be noble and virtuous (CHAYIL) too.

Do Good
She will do him good … (v.12). As believers, men and women are admonished to “do good” to our enemies (Lu 6:27, 35). Christian men and women are admonished to “do good” and to share with others (He 13:16).

Do No Harm
She brings him good, not harm … (v.12). Husbands are instructed to love their wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Eph 5:25). Romans 13:10 tells us that “love does no harm.” Therefore, if a husband loves his wife, he will not harm her.

Work With Your Hands
She … works with eager hands (v.13). Christian men and women are called to live a quiet lives, mind our business and “work with our hands” … (1 Th 4:11).

Don’t Be Idle
She … does not eat the bread of idleness (v.27). Paul proclaimed the value of hard work and sternly warned men and women not to be idle (2 Th 3:6-12). “And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone” (1 Th 5:14).

Speak With Wisdom
She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue (v.26). “The mouth of the righteous man utters wisdom, and his tongue speaks what is just” (Ps 37:30).

Care for the Poor
She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy (v.20). Christian men and women are admonished to care for the poor and needy (Ma 25:34-40).

Fear the Lord
… a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised (v. 30). “Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who greatly delights in his commandments!” (Ps 112:1)

So, what does a virtuous man look like? He's noble (CHAYIL), will do his spouse good and not harm, works with his hands, is not idle, speaks wisdom, cares for the poor and fears the Lord.

BOTH men and women should be virtuous. Men desire and look for virtuous wives, and there is nothing wrong with that. Likewise, women need to be Biblically educated and informed, so they can recognize virtuous suitors when and if they come.

There is a lot of discussion on some of these threads about a shortage of virtuous women. "An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels" (v. 10). Likewise, there is also a shortage of virtuous, faithful men. The Bible says that too.

Many a man proclaims his own steadfast love, but a faithful man who can find? (Pr 20:6)

 

[GaryA]

..., seeing as money issues are the #1 cause of divorce, Christian or not.

This happens because / when money becomes more important than the relationship...

 

[seoulsearch]

This happens because / when money becomes more important than the relationship...

This is the simplistic Christianized answer to a very complicated issue.

How many of us have seen this happen in our own lives and families? A family member becomes ill. Maybe even with a long-term or life-threatening illness. And what if there is no insurance, or even the co-pay is way beyond the means of the family (I'm seeing this right now right in front of me--emergency surgery, ambulance ride, extended stay in the hospital and ongoing care).

And suddenly you're looking at medical costs that are tens of thousands of dollars... and now days, it's not hard for those costs to jump into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, even with insurance.

Yes, I know the simple answer is to say that money isn't important, God is. But we also have to live in the real world, and face real-world issues. We all still need a place to live, so what happens when bill collectors are going to take everything you have, including your house? (They can always move in with the good Christians who tell them to just trust God, and not money, right? I think that should be the answer!)

I just read an article the other day that said it's not uncommon for many students who seek advanced degrees to wind up with $200,000 worth of student debt by the time they're done. Just think of all the families who have more than one child in college at the same time.

Will a "traditional" man be expected to provide for all of that? Or should he not be expected to?

 

[Rosesrock]

This is the simplistic Christianized answer to a very complicated issue.

How many of us have seen this happen in our own lives and families? A family member becomes ill. Maybe even with a long-term or life-threatening illness. And what if there is no insurance, or even the co-pay is way beyond the means of the family (I'm seeing this right now right in front of me--emergency surgery, ambulance ride, extended stay in the hospital and ongoing care).

And suddenly you're looking at medical costs that are tens of thousands of dollars... and now days, it's not hard for those costs to jump into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, even with insurance.

Yes, I know the simple answer is to say that money isn't important, God is. But we also have to live in the real world, and face real-world issues. We all still need a place to live, so what happens when bill collectors are going to take everything you have, including your house? (They can always move in with the good Christians who tell them to just trust God, and not money, right? I think that should be the answer!)

I just read an article the other day that said it's not uncommon for many students who seek advanced degrees to wind up with $200,000 worth of student debt by the time they're done. Just think of all the families who have more than one child in college at the same time.

Will a "traditional" man be expected to provide for all of that? Or should he not be expected to?

Simple answer....thst's individual

Example, i raise kids, work very part time. We are one credit card maxed and one almost there. Air broken and fixed this weekend will help us meet that second max (goal) on the positive side..lol

Anyway, we've committed to everything i make, which isnt much but will go only to debt. Plus we've prayed for wisdom and attitudes. The Lord opened a door for a job that will more than triple pay, let me stay home with my last kiddo, and when i travel on weekends, the fam can come.....so obedience brings blessings. It's a family decision, not solely on the dude

 

[gypsygirl]

I have a feeling that even if people wouldn't have misinterpreted it, there wouldn't have been much discussion anyway. For whatever reasons, the term "traditional woman" always seems to draw a much bigger firestorm.

honestly, i think the problem isn't because "traditional woman" creates more firestorm.

it's because labels like "traditional" and "conservative" are so subjective that they mean as many things as there are people to supply the definitions.

further, how many women do you see posting what appears to be an "ad" looking for a traditional man? or conservative man? women don't do that stuff, so much. men, on the other hand are more likely to search here, and ask about women.

i think women are more likely to use specific descriptors, rather than broad labels. whereas, i notice men will ask for women using a label, perhaps to avoid the specific descriptions. or maybe they don't know what exactly they are looking for. or don't care to put out more than just a vague description.

there are a lot of things on cc that are fairly common across the sexes. but "seeking someone" isn't one of them, in my opinion.

oh, an one more thing, most women aren't really seeking what is only what might be seen as "traditional". i think most women are seeking something more contemporary, if even it borrows from what happened in more traditional times.

most women who aspire to be homemakers don't want to be homemakers because they lack the freedom to choose otherwise. they want someone who is willing to allow them to be a homemaker if they want, or a part-time, or full-time career. or they're open to more than just what has happened in the past.

i honestly can't remember the last time i've heard a single woman who was willing to say, i want a traditional man, but not specify in WHAT ways he was still considered traditional. yeah, i want a guy who's traditional enough to open the door and be the guy, but not so traditional he tells me not to "worry your pretty little head" when it comes to things women weren't traditionally viewed as capable of.

for me, i love some aspects of what is associated with tradition. i want someone who eats dinner at home with me, during a sacred dinner hour, free from the ridiculousness of technology tethers and attention spans that rival a gnat. i want someone who sees tv and movies as a rare treat, not something that is the awful soundtrack of our lives. i want someone who thinks i'm smart enough to be trusted with more than just making a meal, but doesn't hold it against me if i want to use all of my God-given talent and education to focus all my energies in putting in a herb garden and becoming a home chef that can rival any michelin-starred chef.

OR be a captain of industry, and start another business. after all, i only have 37356243527457 start-up ideas in the vault. ; p

i want to have the freedom to do what i want within the context of what we, together feel is best for us. and most women prefer a man who is wiling to be open to more than just making sandwiches and darning socks. not that there is anything wrong with that. : )

 

[seoulsearch]

It's a family decision, not solely on the dude

I think that's one of the things that raises my eyebrows about the whole "traditional man leading a traditional woman" thing.

Sometimes I wonder if it's more about making a man feel in control than living in reality. I've always thought of it as being a very people-oriented, family-based working unit with the man as the tie-breaker and last word, not just the man standing up and constantly barking directions, which is the impression I get from some men I've talked to who want "traditional".

Do they really understand what kind of pressure and responsibility that is, and that they are going to need all the help they can get? Are they really capable of that? If so, then go for it. But I expect a person to at least have some inkling of the reality of what he's stepping into.

This is the main reason why I tend to resist men who want an "ultra-conservative, ultra-traditional" wife --I don't mean to stereotype at all but in many cases, such a man typically doesn't know when to ask for help, nor is he willing to seek it, and I'm not comfortable with that at all. In this day and age, EVERYONE needs help, and LOTS of it.

This has become more and more evident to me over the years. Last year my family was in a minor car accident. I could see the toll it took on my Dad, because as the head of the household, he felt personally responsible for the safety of everyone in the car.

I also have a male friend who, many years ago, was hashing out a personal problem with me, and he said something I'll never forget: "Kim, I don't have the answers, so this is what we're going to do. We are going to pray our butts off and we are going to get help. It doesn't matter how many people we have to ask or how long it takes, we need HELP with this and we are not going to stop until we find it."

I was in complete awe of this and it's something I will never forget. I mean... A man who knows his personal limits and is willing to reach out beyond them?? I would feel much safer with someone like this because he's not relying on his own wisdom or strength. He knows he is completely dependent on God and on other people, because there are so many areas in life beyond his reach. Humility on that scale is immensely attractive... at least, to me.

And, I would gladly follow a man with that kind of outlook to the ends of the earth.

 

[GaryA]

This is the simplistic Christianized answer to a very complicated issue.

Sure it is - it is intended to be - because it is based on a simple principle...

Human beings - and relationships - are more important than money.

This is a principle that we should never depart from, no matter what...

How many of us have seen this happen in our own lives and families? A family member becomes ill. Maybe even with a long-term or life-threatening illness. And what if there is no insurance, or even the co-pay is way beyond the means of the family (I'm seeing this right now right in front of me--emergency surgery, ambulance ride, extended stay in the hospital and ongoing care).

And suddenly you're looking at medical costs that are tens of thousands of dollars... and now days, it's not hard for those costs to jump into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, even with insurance.

Yes, I know the simple answer is to say that money isn't important, God is. But we also have to live in the real world, and face real-world issues. We all still need a place to live, so what happens when bill collectors are going to take everything you have, including your house? (They can always move in with the good Christians who tell them to just trust God, and not money, right? I think that should be the answer!)

I just read an article the other day that said it's not uncommon for many students who seek advanced degrees to wind up with $200,000 worth of student debt by the time they're done. Just think of all the families who have more than one child in college at the same time.

Will a "traditional" man be expected to provide for all of that? Or should he not be expected to?

I understand; nonetheless, do you allow the 'reality' of life to tear your relationship apart - over money issues? Or, do you "hold fast" to what you have ( relationship things, not things you own ) - working together - never forgetting that you are "in it together" - keeping your focus on what matters - God, honor, trust, love, etc. -- you know - those 'simplistic' principles that we are to follow...

If this happens, it is because money became more important to someone than their mate.

 

[seoulsearch]

I understand; nonetheless, do you allow the 'reality' of life to tear your relationship apart - over money issues? Or, do you "hold fast" to what you have ( relationship things, not things you own ) - working together - never forgetting that you are "in it together" - keeping your focus on what matters - God, honor, trust, love, etc. -- you know - those 'simplistic' principles that we are to follow...

If this happens, it is because money became more important to someone than their mate.

This is one of my greatest frustrations in Christianity.

The "always easier said than done" syndrome.

 

[egeiro]

Top hat, monocle and suspenders. Yes.

 

[Olerica]

I think that's one of the things that raises my eyebrows about the whole "traditional man leading a traditional woman" thing.

Sometimes I wonder if it's more about making a man feel in control than living in reality. I've always thought of it as being a very people-oriented, family-based working unit with the man as the tie-breaker and last word, not just the man standing up and constantly barking directions, which is the impression I get from some men I've talked to who want "traditional".

Do they really understand what kind of pressure and responsibility that is, and that they are going to need all the help they can get? Are they really capable of that? If so, then go for it. But I expect a person to at least have some inkling of the reality of what he's stepping into.

This is the main reason why I tend to resist men who want an "ultra-conservative, ultra-traditional" wife --I don't mean to stereotype at all but in many cases, such a man typically doesn't know when to ask for help, nor is he willing to seek it, and I'm not comfortable with that at all. In this day and age, EVERYONE needs help, and LOTS of it.

This has become more and more evident to me over the years. Last year my family was in a minor car accident. I could see the toll it took on my Dad, because as the head of the household, he felt personally responsible for the safety of everyone in the car.

I also have a male friend who, many years ago, was hashing out a personal problem with me, and he said something I'll never forget: "Kim, I don't have the answers, so this is what we're going to do. We are going to pray our butts off and we are going to get help. It doesn't matter how many people we have to ask or how long it takes, we need HELP with this and we are not going to stop until we find it."

I was in complete awe of this and it's something I will never forget. I mean... A man who knows his personal limits and is willing to reach out beyond them?? I would feel much safer with someone like this because he's not relying on his own wisdom or strength. He knows he is completely dependent on God and on other people, because there are so many areas in life beyond his reach. Humility on that scale is immensely attractive... at least, to me.

And, I would gladly follow a man with that kind of outlook to the ends of the earth.

oh my! I think I swooned!!

 

[Olerica]

Top hat, monocle and suspenders. Yes.

Suit and tie too sometimes? *sigh*

LOL

It's funny, because I'm a jeans and tees kinda girl.

 

[ChandlerFan]

Top hat, monocle and suspenders. Yes.

Just don't challenge him to a game of Monopoly.

 

[seoulsearch]

If this happens, it is because money became more important to someone than their mate.

My other frustration with this is that sometimes it's used as a "catch-all" highly spiritualized phrase to condemn ANY perfectly legitimate concerns about money.

There is a fine line between someone who is "more concerned about money than their spouse" vs. personal responsibility.

Someone who wants to be the ultimate leader of the household also has to own up to the fact that God will then see him as responsible for that household. How far his responsibility goes--such as with finances--is one of the discussion questions I've been trying to raise here.

People who have perfectly reasonable, Godly concerns about money and how it's handled are often swept into the "trusting in money and not God" category and that's simply not true.

It's impossible to be a Godly steward without having a plan as to how you are going to earn and handle money, whether as a single or as a couple.

 

[Rosesrock]

I will have to say in most church circles boys are being raised to be good providers. That's their rule. And even with women, they struggle with the idenity and it being their job. Pride keeps those men from seeing the big picture within a family. My hub didnt start out that way. But with lots of prayer and being willing to bend, being molded by God's plan, this is what has brought us this far. I guess my point bring with everyone, we all grow into our roles as individuals striving to please God, so why do we expect profection from a potential spouse. Couples grow togther in the Lord due to change in marriage circustances.

 

[egeiro]

Just don't challenge him to a game of Monopoly.

As I was typing that comment, I was literally thinking Monopoly. I'm glad we're on the same wave length here.

 

[kaylagrl]

Hey Singles,

As a counterpart to Mitspa's thread about looking for a traditional woman, I'd really like to hear your thoughts about what exactly "traditional" is. Personally, I think the very definition of what's considered "traditional" has radically changed just because societal norms have changed so much over time. I am NOT saying that GOD'S laws have changed, but rather, what's seen everyday in society certainly has, which changes people's perceptions of what "traditional" might mean.

What would a "traditional" man look like in today's world? (At least, what does the term "traditional" mean to you?)

I was talking with a young co-worker who asked if my parents were married. "Yes,", I replied, "They're only a few years shy of 50 years." "WOW," my young comrade replied. "I wonder what that's even like. My Mom and Dad were never married, and my Dad had several other children with a bunch of other women." To this person, "traditional" would mean that one's parents are married and stay together.

I'm writing this thread not because I myself am looking for a traditional man in particular--I'm not opposed to a good Godly traditional man of course--but since there's been so much talk about what a traditional WOMAN supposedly is, or supposedly should be, I'd like to know what a traditional man would look like today. Is he a provider? Should he be expected to the sole source of income with a wife who doesn't work? Will he make all the major family decisions with little to no input from the other family members?

I come from what I consider a traditional home myself, with a man who provided (but most certainly doesn't lord over any of us) and a mom who stayed at home. But because my Dad has a more laid-back, "What does everyone in the family have to say before we make a final decision?" attitude, I'm sure some people would say even my family isn't "traditional enough."

How can we recognize a "traditional" man in today's society?

(Yes, I know some people are going to be shocked by the brevity of this thread. Just in case anyone feels cheated, I'll make up for it in the next one I plan to start. )

Well I had to look at this post.lol I know married people are not supposed to comment but the other "traditional woman" thread got me going so I had to comment on this one.

I'd say I have a traditional marriage in many ways.But as others have said it depends on what traditional means to you.My husband is the only one that works,Im unable to because of health.He paid for all our dinner dates except for a few that I had to force him to accept my money.He opens door for not just me but other women.He's a gentle spirit and never raises his voice to me.We dont argue,we talk everything out and come to a solution.He refuses to let me carry anything heavy,he doesnt want me mowing the lawn,{we have a huge,hilly lawn} We go to church together,pray and discuss the Bible together.He's good to my parents.He's from the south so everything is yes ma'am,no sir.

Now hard core traditional men would disagree but we have two sides to our relationship. He doesn't make plans without talking to me,a rule we both respect.He doesnt spend money without discussing with me.He cooks sometimes,he vacuums sometimes,he does his own laundry {his choice}. He makes no demands on me,he doesn't tell me to do anything.He gives me money from his pay so I can have money of my own. For me it is the perfect balance. If we see something that needs doing we do it,we dont ever say "thats not my job". So I guess we're a little of both.My parents have a very traditional marriage and I would not follow their example. Im very happy with what we have.

 

[Tintin]

Well I had to look at this post.lol I know married people are not supposed to comment but the other "traditional woman" thread got me going so I had to comment on this one.

I'd say I have a traditional marriage in many ways.But as others have said it depends on what traditional means to you.My husband is the only one that works,Im unable to because of health.He paid for all our dinner dates except for a few that I had to force him to accept my money.He opens door for not just me but other women.He's a gentle spirit and never raises his voice to me.We dont argue,we talk everything out and come to a solution.He refuses to let me carry anything heavy,he doesnt want me mowing the lawn,{we have a huge,hilly lawn} We go to church together,pray and discuss the Bible together.He's good to my parents.He's from the south so everything is yes ma'am,no sir.

Now hard core traditional men would disagree but we have two sides to our relationship. He doesn't make plans without talking to me,a rule we both respect.He doesnt spend money without discussing with me.He cooks sometimes,he vacuums sometimes,he does his own laundry {his choice}. He makes no demands on me,he doesn't tell me to do anything.He gives me money from his pay so I can have money of my own. For me it is the perfect balance. If we see something that needs doing we do it,we dont ever say "thats not my job". So I guess we're a little of both.My parents have a very traditional marriage and I would not follow their example. Im very happy with what we have.

That is beautiful!

 

[seoulsearch]

Kayla,

You are always welcome to post here. Some of my favorite, and, to me, the most valuable posts here have been by kind, married people who see us as peers (not poor helpless singles in need of and uplifting lecture) and tell us what their real, married life is like.

After all, who better to give practical advice that those who are in successful, working marriages??!!! We single people can only coach each other along so far.

I hope you will continue to share here and in any other threads that may catch your interest as well.

 

[Rosesrock]

Kayla,

You are always welcome to post here. Some of my favorite, and, to me, the most valuable posts here have been by kind, married people who see us as peers (not poor helpless singles in need of and uplifting lecture) and tell us what their real, married life is like.

After all, who better to give practical advice that those who are in successful, working marriages??!!! We single people can only coach each other along so far.

I hope you will continue to share here and in any other threads that may catch your interest as well.

Phew, that's exactly my heart. I pray yall dont see my posts as a lecture at all. 'Working' is right....we work hard at praying, change of attitude, fight selfishness, and continue to struggle all like everyone else. It's called life.