Why do men/women....?

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JimJimmers

JimJimmers

Senior Member
#581
Apr 26, 2012
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Abair, I consider you a friend, and I'm not trying to be combative. But please consider this:

We just had a shooting here in the U.S., at a movie theater. Four of the men who were killed died after throwing themselves over females to protect them from bullets. It can't really be explained why we do that, it's just in us. Christian men don't see women as equals, they see them as something to cherish and protect, even unto death.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
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#582
JimJimmers, I have to say that I broke down and cried when I listened to those stories and then heard the story from the wife of a man who was wounded while protecting her. I tried to talk about it with someone from church today and it touched me so deeply that I couldn't even get the words out.
 
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jkalyna

Guest
#583
#583
:) I THINK THEY ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING UP THEIR SLEEVE BESIDE HAIR.:D
 
Jilly81

Jilly81

Senior Member
#584
Jan 16, 2011
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Jullianna, I actually saw you mention in another thread that Jim had written about the four men who were killed protecting their ladies, and I looked through his posts to find it. I had considered starting a thread about it, but I still need to respond to other threads, so I found what Jim said to comment on it. I'm not really sure what to say, now that I'm here, but the Bible verse that says "greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends" comes to mind. As I was typing the last sentence, it made me wonder if dying for your friends is more a love issue than dying for one's wife...not that it's not love that makes them put their lives on the line for their wives (and not that a wife can't be a friend also), but perhaps it's more of an instinct than dying for another guy, and would have more personal benefits than protecting another man (someone will be there to take care of your children, etc.). It still makes me cry either way, though. Also, that verse (John 15:13) always makes me think of Jesus dying for us; He died for ALL of us, and it was for our eternal souls, so it's more than a human could ever do, and so much more than we could ever deserve....

Well, now that I've said all that, does anyone care to elaborate? I hadn't come here to ask a question, but now that I brought one up, what do you feel, guys; is protecting a female more of an instinct than getting in between another guy and gunfire? I'm sure that when the time arises, you don't think about it; you just do it, but I've heard a few guys say that in their head they'd gone through the possibilities of what they'd do in case of an attack like this. One of these guys had been having dreams about it, and he and his friend managed to distract the shooter enough for their classmates to escape, and everyone ended up fine. Well, not sure what ended up happening to the shooter, but the police apprehended him, after the young man and his friend wrestled the gun away; nobody got hurt.

Hadn't meant to type such a long post, but I am curious as to what you guys think about when you're thinking about what you'd do in situations like this, and if protecting a female is more of an instinct, or if the instinct is more "protect everyone", or something else entirely.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#586
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Jilly, I think it would be cool for the guys to answer your question (and eagerly await their answers), but I have seen many, christian AND non-christian, police officers, firefighters and EMS personal respond this way to any and all females in dangerous situations.
 
MrHonest

MrHonest

Senior Member
#587
Jan 22, 2012
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I've reacted to save a lady before myself; although it turned out it was nothing but a loud sound that scared everyone & she was upset that I even bothered... I'm still happy to know I wouldn't react to save myself first.

I saw a situation that makes everyone take cover & it stays carved in my mind that I saw a man react so scared he shoved a lady who was trying to take cover past him, it seemed like he was more worried about himself while he shoved the lady to get out of his way.

I remember what goes through my mind is protect: protect dearest/nearest. If I see a man or a woman I would help the woman. Always the woman is dearest but if theres no woman then nearest is a friend, if he looks like he may need help I'll help him. I just used friend in the previous sentence without realising & it fits quite well :)
 
Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#588
Jan 15, 2011
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I think the instinct to protect is built into the male psyche to one degree or another. Obviously it is stronger in some men than others, and likewise I think that instinct is stronger when it comes to protecting ladies and children. Of course there are aberrations to this rule, last time I checked we call them cowards.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#589
Aug 2, 2009
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I personally would never ever doubt the honor or good intention of a man (or a woman) who willingly put themselves in harm's way to protect another human being.

(no offense, Jilly :))
 
JimJimmers

JimJimmers

Senior Member
#591
Apr 26, 2012
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One thing I've heard from war veterans: If you're worried about fleeing or cowering when the bullets fly, you're probably fine.

If, on the other hand, you're telling everyone how brave you are, you'll probably run like a cheap nylon stocking.

(this is in no way an indictment of anyone who posted above me, I didn't take anything anyone said as bragging. I was just passing on some info I heard.)

If there's anyone reading this who wants to be a protector, but is afraid they'll choke when the crisis comes, ask Jesus to make you a protector. He is faithful.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
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#592
JimJimmers, there's a saying among those who are shot at:

"If you ain't scared, it ain't bravery."
 
AsifinPassing

AsifinPassing

Senior Member
#593
Jul 13, 2010
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I basically agree with most of what everyone else said. Men have been living since the beginning as hunters, farmers, providers, protectors, creators, ext...

I do believe it's part of how most men are wired, but I think it depends. I'd like to say I'd die for a stranger, let alone a loved one, but I've never been in the situation.

Oh, and to your last post Jullianna, I'd like to agree...but, I think that depends too. If you've spent your life killing, watching death, ext...or many other dark, tragic realities for ways of living...then desensitization, routine/training, or true apathy to survival/perhaps even hoping to die, would greatly reduce and effect fear factors.

I still think, though, that if the man held nothing to this life, but died (willingly) to save others without fear, it's still corageous.

In fact, my Viking ancestors, and those such as Spartans, saw fear as weakness. So, there are different approaches.
 
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AsifinPassing

AsifinPassing

Senior Member
#594
Jul 13, 2010
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I meat to add (before the the timer cut me off...) that they viewed dying in battle as the highest honor. They would continuously face impossible odds holding to what they loved and believed. Men would literally face squadrons of people on their own. I think this, too, is a brave thing. To face 'impossible' without fear or hesitation. If we did that as Christians...well, I'm sure we'd be in a much different place.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
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#595
AsifinPassing said:
I basically agree with most of what everyone else said. Men have been living since the beginning as hunters, farmers, providers, protectors, creators, ext...

I do believe it's part of how most men are wired, but I think it depends. I'd like to say I'd die for a stranger, let alone a loved one, but I've never been in the situation.

Oh, and to your last post Jullianna, I'd like to agree...but, I think that depends too. If you've spent your life killing, watching death, ext...or many other dark, tragic realities for ways of living...then desensitization, routine/training, or true apathy to survival/perhaps even hoping to die, would greatly reduce and effect fear factors.

I still think, though, that if the man held nothing to this life, but died (willingly) to save others without fear, it's still corageous.

In fact, my Viking ancestors, and those such as Spartans, saw fear as weakness. So, there are different approaches.
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Extensive training does help. It helped me alot. The adrenaline still kicks in during dangerous situations, but you use it for fight rather than flight. You do what you have to do and deal with the rest of it later as best you can. Knowing Who you belong to helps alot too. :)

If an officer ever gets to the point where others around him/her perceive that he/she is truly desensitized, they will become very concerned about working with him/her and he/she would find himself/herself in psych eval very quickly. That's where that saying came from. If someone has no fear at all in such situations, it's likely no longer bravery, but a death wish that not only endangers them, but those around them.

I was going to say that some folks bravely accept death as an inevitability, but then I realized that, barring Divine intervention, the death of our mortal bodies is an inevitability for all of us.

That's cool about the Viking thing. I learned from ancestry.com a few months back that my dad's family came to the British Isles as Vikings in the Norman Invasion. We could be related. :D I learned that Viking was another word for pirate back in the day too. haha
 
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AsifinPassing

AsifinPassing

Senior Member
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Jul 13, 2010
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Yes, but the original Norsemen (people, as the women definitely fought just as much... O_O) were the greatest sailors...ever! Every nation which meets a coast, and several with circumnavigable rivers have found Norse 'runestones' all over the world.

A simple, somewhat vulgar translation of this would be... a rock with writings on it which states "All this is mine. -Vikings"

It would be cool and funny if we were related! Especially being the same rare personality type and ext...


About the service note, I understand what you're saying there. I think, however, that some cases are not a psychological problem. For example, my friend Josh and I are what's commonly coined "adrenaline junkies". We do stupid, life-risking things from time to time, because frankly...it makes us feel alive.

In fact, there closer you are to death, the more nearly 'tangible' your mortality is.

It's sort of like the lyrics from the Goo Goo Dolls' 'Iris' - "Yeah...you bleed just to know you're alive..."

Now, I trust Josh with my life, as he does with his to me, as we've saved each other a time or two before. I would like to say we're fearless, but we're not. My point, though, is that in some things, which others would find frightening, we find quite comfortable.

There's a difference between valuing life and survival instincts. We value life, but would gladly die at any moment...as Heaven is really more of a 'win' than anything here.

Now, nonetheless, on the 'fight or flight' you referenced too...I'm a predator. 'Flight' is a rare mode to find me in. It's a weird mix, because the, let's say, 'gentle-me' really hates conflict, violence, anger, ext...but the 'predator me' knows both through instinct and training to 'go for the kill'...

It's really hard to say what I would do in that situation, but I figure if I can take down the attacker while making sure the bullets (and or weapon) only hit me...I'd be good with that.
 
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Jilly81

Jilly81

Senior Member
#597
Jan 16, 2011
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Thanks for answering my question, everyone; I really enjoyed reading your responses :). Gabe, I agree with you; I had simply been musing that perhaps protecting a female was more of an INSTINCT, and protecting another guy was something that wouldn't come as naturally. If it's not as much of an instinct/immediate reaction, I was thinking that perhaps it meant that doing so must take more platonic love than rescuing a lady. Again, thank you to everyone who responded :).
 
MrHonest

MrHonest

Senior Member
#598
Jan 22, 2012
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I want to continue this thread somehow... why do women... uuuuhhhhhhhhhhhggg... why do women ummm .. I can't think of anything good...

Is perfume something all women use? Because isn't it like makeup?? I mean: When I hear people say as the Bible says (SIMPLY put) No makeup, no tattoos, no piercings, no manly clothes. Is perfume in there or no?

Because I think of perfume as something that smells nice but is similar to makeup in that it masks yourself a little bit... I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be against either but I know deodorant is always good :p ...

I wear cologne occasionally but I really don't care if anyone uses 'smell goods' until I smell people who overdo it then its bad.

Honestly I've wondered this since I was like 12...
 
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Jullianna

Guest
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Mary used perfume on Jesus' feet, so I don't think it was wrong to have it, though I think that particular type was used for death anointing rather than glamorous purposes. And part of the "preparation for the king" processes the ladies who were gathered in with Esther endured included soaking in fine oils so that their skin would absorb the scent.

I personally prefer very light body sprays or lotions to perfumes because most perfumes are so strong and give me a headache. :) I know elderly people who don't bathe as frequently as some of us because it is difficult for them to do so (or do the sponge bath thing) who tend to overuse perfume.

I'm not a fan of the one dose bottle method of cologne application. I don't want to smell you coming before I see you. :) I would rather be able to talk with someone without sneezing or developing a headache. :)
 
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