Wives submit to your husbands

[Esarin]

The topic of women submitting comes up quite often here in singles, which I understand.

May I be 100% real in stating what's on my heart here? One of the reasons I get so discouraged as a Christian single woman is because of things like this:

1. Instant messaging with a "Christian" guy on a "Christian" site who writes, "What are you doing today?" and when I say, "Oh, just chores and laundry..." and he writes back, "Really? Are you in your skivvies?" (It is possible to slap someone--HARD--over the internet? I wish it was.)

2. I meet Christian guys a lot who... Can I be real here? Can I be honest? I'm not making fun of anyone's struggles. I admire those who are genuinely trying to deal with their challenges, because we ALL have them.

But as far as leadership goes, when I have genuine heart-to-heart talks with some of the Christian men I've been interested in, they confide problems with pornography and unhealthy sexual addictions. Yes, it happens with women, too, I'm not denying that, but as a Christian woman, let me tell you...

My hope of ever finding a man who would log off the computer porn long enough to actually make me believe he has an interest in protecting, cherishing, and leading a household... goes down the drain a little more every year. After all, we as women must submit... but are the men, in doing their part, willing to suffer and die for their wives? I personally believe a Christian woman would want to know a man genuinely believed in that before agreeing to marry him. It may be hard to find a woman to submit... it's just as hard to find a man willing to lead... and be willing to die for it.

I'm sorry for anyone I'm offending. THIS IS MY OWN EXPERIENCE ONLY, and for all you Christian guys out there who don't have this problem or are seeking help, kudos to you. I could be friends with the person in that situation, but I will not marry him. I may just meet all the wrong guys, so please DO NOT think I am lumping all men into this category. And, you find this everywhere, including among pastors, elders, and church leadership.

I told God a long time ago, that is something I can't and won't deal with. I would rather stay single, because to me, someone like that would not be my husband, and he would not be capable of leading--his heart is already far from me.

I know from my life experience that I work best as a SUPPORT person to a strong, tender-hearted but responsible, capable, leader. Sure, we'll sometimes disagree, but hopefully we'll be mature enough to work things out as Christian adults. If nothing else, my experiences have taught me how rare such a man would be and how much I need to cherish him more than any other human being in the world.

IF I EVER DO FIND THE LEADER I AM MEANT TO SUPPORT, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll do my very best to never let him go, nor let him go it alone without his helper right beside him.

I know there are a lot of men (and women alike) that struggle with pornography or see no issue with it. In my personal experience, I have never dated a guy that didn't look at it while dating me. Only ONE stopped when he found out how it bothered me. I feel like if I am not enough for a man then he needs to move on. I have friends who have no issues with it and even watch it with their spouses. To each's own, but it is something I will NOT deal with. It says in the bible not to look lustfully and sex is about as personal as you can get. They may not be cheating on my physically, but I feel like they are cheating on me just the same. Sorry for getting off topic a bit, but as far as the submission thing goes, I don't mind taking care of my future husband and our children. Some people confuse wives submitting to their husbands as her having NO say in anything and that is not what it's about.

 

[DuchessAimee]

If I have taken any scripture out of context, then please show me. Instead of criticizing me, show me what I've quoted out of context. That's the problem, people never prove me wrong from scripture. They just continue to falsely accuse me, just like the devil does. Please point out what scriptures I have distorted.

And after all this time people still haven't got my point. My point is the double standards. Men are expected to obey Ephesians 5:25, but women don't want to obey, "Wives, submit to your husbands."

No, we get your point. You're not getting ours. I'm not trying to prove you wrong out of scripture. I'm not even saying you're wrong in general! I'm saying you're misguided, and that you have obviously been very hurt. Should women submit to their husbands, yes! Should men submit to their wives, yes! Is there a double standard, of course! What you're talking about is truly beside the point. You are picking a fight to simply pick a fight.

Oh! And one more thing, the love you should have for your spouse isn't supposed to be conditional. If you're supposed to love your wife as Christ loves the church, is that conditional? No, it's not. You mentioned prior that you didn't see the point of dying for your wife if she wasn't going to submit to you. Your love for her isn't supposed to be conditional. And her love for you isn't supposed to be based on whether or not you're perfect. You seem to be holding onto being right sooooo tightly. You'll never be perfect. That's why we have Jesus. He is our perfect Father and sacrificial lamb. You're going to mess up. It sucks, yes, but it's going to happen. Take a breath and pray about your attitude towards women. You might be surprised by what you hear.

 

[seoulsearch]

Leviticus 19:16--You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people.

I'm not sure why you accuse all women of refusing to submit. To say this about women who do believe in being a Godly, submissive wife is to bring about false accusations against them as well.

Exodus 20:16--You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Male or female.

What was that again about how you don't pick and choose which of God's commands you do or do not decide to obey?

 

[seoulsearch]

I've said several times that I do indeed hope to strive to a be a Godly, submissive wife, so to accuse me, and the other women here who believe in this as well, is to bring about false accusations. Will we be perfect? Of course not. But with God's help, we will do our best. As a fellow believer in Christ, I am asking you to please stop slandering and falsely accusing the Godly, Christian women here with blanket statements such as, "I can't get married because women won't submit." For you to say that about all women is terribly unjust.

Additionally, my point throughout my replies have been, how can you expect others to adhere by rules that that you yourself do not apply to your own actions?

 

[Dotann]

So let's turn the tables and see how you like it: Would you marry and submit to a man who was not prepared to fulfill his roles as a godly husband? If not, why not? Most women would say "No, of course I wouldn't." So my question is, why would I want to marry a woman who refused to fulfill her roles as a godly wife? Why the double standards?

Actually Steven To answer your question YES! I did for 20 years as i lived that life. But apparently you did not read my post. He was not a Christian and although i still obeyed him and tried to follow my Lord, my ex-husband was abusive, controlling, an alcoholic and cheated on me! But i still followed and obeyed Him regardless and got abused any way. For real love respects and submits to the other as i submitted to my lord during this time! This meant no matter what my feelings were, God was in charge!

But men are to obey Christ regardless of what another person does correct? So even if the wife does not obey, this does not mean the husband does not have to either? For God WILL expect obedience from us all men and women and as you put so much importance on the man as the head of the family, then God will expect much more obedience out of him than the wife as its him who needs to follow underneath Gods leadership and lead by example. Am i correct?
[h=3]Luke 6:32-33[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]32 [/SUP]“If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Even sinners love those who love them! [SUP]33 [/SUP]And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that much!



So if the husband gives up and does not obey only because the wife also does, the Father will be more upset with the husband as he is the one who is to provide leadership and is to take on this responsibility.
[h=3]Matthew 25:23[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“The master said, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in handling this small amount, so now I will give you many more responsibilities. Let’s celebrate together!’

Where the heart goes the man follows. Meaning keep your words and your actions together! otherwise people and God may call us a hypocrite as this shows our fruits. So real belief means doing not just because another does it, but because we each have the faith to stand for something alone because we know god stands with us! This should be enough! When we have a partner that God brings to us that is the same, it only makes this that much more a wonderful blessing!

 

[seoulsearch]

Actually Steven To answer your question YES! I did for 20 years as i lived that life. But apparently you did not read my post.

I'm thinking that maybe he's too busy obeying all of God's commands to be able to actually take the time to read what we write. *shrugs*

 

[Tintin]

Stephen, Gothard's patriarchal beliefs aren't biblical but you seem to be the sort to hold that way of thinking to be Truth.

 

[leelee]

I'm thinking that maybe he's too busy obeying all of God's commands to be able to actually take the time to read what we write. *shrugs*

It is 1am here, he might have just gone to sleep.

 

[Stephen100]

Of course we all want Godly spouses who live Godly lives. But to expect perfection or anything close to it is not only unrealistic, but impossible. I secretly wished for years that my ex would change his mind and we would remarry, but he never spoke to me again after our court date and I hear he's now remarried with a family.

Would I try again with someone else? Perhaps. Do I want someone who is a Godly husband? Of course. But for either of us to expect perfection or standards set too high is an automatic setup for failure before it's even begun.






I'm not sure which part of Aimee's post you thought was pig slop, seeing as she stated that we are all sinners who make mistakes, which is extremely Biblical.

I could be wrong, but I would say that telling someone, "You should be ashamed of yourself," would be slander.

Exactly what was the part that you were saying about how you don't pick and choose which of God's commands to obey (implying that you obey all of them) and the fact that you said a person either chooses to obey God or doesn't... Are you saying you don't apply your own rules to yourself but expect them of everyone else?

I'm curious now as to how you can say you choose to obey all of God's commands rather than picking... but yet, slander another person. Call me crazy, but this seems to be a violation of one of God's commands.


Aren't you contradicting yourself here?

You are doing exactly what Satan did with Jesus when he tried to trick him by twisting things. For this reason I'm going to permanently ignore you. You are twisting everything and deliberately ignoring my point. No wonder your husband did not speak to you again. You're crazy, and very manipulative.

 

[Stephen100]

Stephen, Gothard's patriarchal beliefs aren't biblical but you seem to be the sort to hold that way of thinking to be Truth.

If I have taken a scripture out of context, at least have the respect and decency to show me.

 

[seoulsearch]

You are doing exactly what Satan did with Jesus when he tried to trick him by twisting things. For this reason I'm going to permanently ignore you. You are twisting everything and deliberately ignoring my point. No wonder your husband did not speak to you again. You're crazy, and very manipulative.

Stephen, I wish you the best.

I reported your post to the mods, and perhaps they won't see anything wrong with it, as some would probably say I have little room to report posts.

I'm not really sure how it is that you see yourself as a law-abiding Christian, but I wish the best for you and that maybe someday you'll find that woman you don't think exists.

 

[Stephen100]

No, we get your point. You're not getting ours. I'm not trying to prove you wrong out of scripture. I'm not even saying you're wrong in general! I'm saying you're misguided, and that you have obviously been very hurt. Should women submit to their husbands, yes! Should men submit to their wives, yes! Is there a double standard, of course! What you're talking about is truly beside the point. You are picking a fight to simply pick a fight.

Oh! And one more thing, the love you should have for your spouse isn't supposed to be conditional. If you're supposed to love your wife as Christ loves the church, is that conditional? No, it's not. You mentioned prior that you didn't see the point of dying for your wife if she wasn't going to submit to you. Your love for her isn't supposed to be conditional. And her love for you isn't supposed to be based on whether or not you're perfect. You seem to be holding onto being right sooooo tightly. You'll never be perfect. That's why we have Jesus. He is our perfect Father and sacrificial lamb. You're going to mess up. It sucks, yes, but it's going to happen. Take a breath and pray about your attitude towards women. You might be surprised by what you hear.

The point I was trying to make is that I wouldn't marry a wife who wasn't willing to submit. That's why you must be very careful who you marry. Marriage is a dangerous thing for men these days, which is why more and more men are waking up and remaining unmarried. The sooner women accept that they are responsibly for this, the better. But pride won't allow women to admit any wrong doing.

 

[Blain]

You are doing exactly what Satan did with Jesus when he tried to trick him by twisting things. For this reason I'm going to permanently ignore you. You are twisting everything and deliberately ignoring my point. No wonder your husband did not speak to you again. You're crazy, and very manipulative.

.................

 

[DavEtheBravE]

The heart of the Father is Mercy

 

[seoulsearch]

You are doing exactly what Satan did with Jesus when he tried to trick him by twisting things. For this reason I'm going to permanently ignore you. You are twisting everything and deliberately ignoring my point. No wonder your husband did not speak to you again. You're crazy, and very manipulative.

Matthew 12:34 -- Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.

I would challenge you to do the same, Stephen. Prove to me through Scripture where I have misspoken.

I'm not really bothered by people who call me derogatory names--if they call me something they see as negative, they are doing so because they see me as "different from them."

Yeah, call me crazy. But there are some people I don't want to be like at all, and having them call me something other than themselves is a huge compliment. And that's not crazy at all.

 

[Tintin]

I don't want to copy and paste other people's work because that's not what discussion forums are all about but Gothard's teachings basically boil down to a non-biblical patriarchal system, which is naturally an extreme reaction to the ungodly feminist movement (not the one that respects females but the one that says women are superior in every way and that men are scum). Gothard's teachings revolve around the belief that a man owns his family, particularly his wife and daughter(s). He is extremely possessive of them (probably a result of insecurity and fear). It's disgusting. I'm all for the wife submitting to the husband (it's a biblical concept) but you have to understand what it really means - the husband does his job of leading the family and making the final decisions but he lovingly and prayerfully takes into consideration what his wife has to say. In all of this, he's looking out for the good of his wife and family, not himself. The husband's role is massive but it's one of Godly leadership and grace, not domineering dictatorships.

If I have taken a scripture out of context, at least have the respect and decency to show me.

 

[wisebeardman]

wow what a mess this has become.

 

[Stephen100]

I don't want to copy and paste other people's work because that's not what discussion forums are all about but Gothard's teachings basically boil down to a non-biblical patriarchal system, which is naturally an extreme reaction to the ungodly feminist movement (not the one that respects females but the one that says women are superior in every way and that men are scum). Gothard's teachings revolve around the belief that a man owns his family, particularly his wife and daughter(s). He is extremely possessive of them (probably a result of insecurity and fear). It's disgusting. I'm all for the wife submitting to the husband (it's a biblical concept) but you have to understand what it really means - the husband does his job of leading the family and making the final decisions but he lovingly and prayerfully takes into consideration what his wife has to say. In all of this, he's looking out for the good of his wife and family, not himself. The husband's role is massive but it's one of Godly leadership and grace, not domineering dictatorships.

Yes, I totally agree with what you have just said. Why the hell don't people bother to read what I say before they post? I've said all along that I believe in a husband's responsibilities and Ephesians 5:25. I really wish people would actually take the time to read what I say before replying. It's so annoying.

 

[Tintin]

I have been reading your posts. But you say one thing and the tone of your posts suggests another - that you seem to hate women. Example: Seoul is one of the kindest CC members and you insulted her. Not cool, man.

 

[leelee]

Yeh, it is so annoying when people wilfully ignore what you are saying....