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To quote myself again from my last post "And if personal accounts were always taken to be verifiable and accurate evidence, than Bigfoot, UFOs, The Loch Ness Monster, etc., would never be brought into question. Clearly, we must use a higher standard of evidence when discerning which claims are true, and which claims are false."
We all have standards that we use to determine whether claims we hear are true or false. We use these standards every day to asses claims of truth on a daily basis. If I came and told you that I had been abducted by aliens last night, would you belief me? Hopefully not. And your reasons for disbelief should be as follows 1) My claim is discredible because you do not know me personally; I could be a compulsive liar or suffer from delusions as a result of a profound brain disorder or susceptible brain states. 2) We don't observe observe alien abductions. Ever. Although I may profoundly believe that I was abducted by aliens, chances are, this is not what actually happened.
Now, Christianity is based on the notion that the Gospel account for the miracle are true; Consequently, this is what you would have to reject to reject the religion of Christianity - You do not have to prove that the universe is absent of God, or that any of the thousands of dead Gods such as Zues, Rha, Thor, etc. are void as well. The truth is, even is we had multiple contemporaneous claims of the miracles of Jesus, this simply would not be good enough evidence - because miracle stories abound even in the 21st century.The deputies of South Indian Guru Sathya Sai Baba ascribe all of the miracles to him: He reads minds, he can tell the future, he raises the dead, cures the blind, walks on water, born of a virgin, etc.
Sathya Sai Baba is not a Fringe figure. They had a birthday party for him a few years ago and over a million people showed up just to see him. There are vasts amounts of people that think he is a living God. So Christianity is predicated on the claim that miracle stories, exactly of the kind that are affiliated with Sathya Sai Baba today, become especially credible when you place them in the pre-scientific, religious context of the first century roman empire; decades after their supposed occurrence, as attested to by copies of copies of copies and translations of ancient Greek, and largely discrepant manuscripts. We have Sathya Sai Baba's miracle stories attested to by thousands and thousands of living eye witnesses, and they don't even merit an hour on cable television.
So i say yet again, clearly there should be a higher standard of evidence that we resort to when discerning whether or not a claim (especially a textual claim) is true.
Im sorry but i really have to disagree the first part.
For those who believe God gives enough proof, for those who don't want to believe the only proof is Jesus who died and was raised. (don't remember the place where Jesus was talking about mark of Jonah)
Well if you want to believe go outside, look the world, the complexity, the perfect design, the forces and then search people who have spiritual experiences. Can you question all these?
For me my proof of God's existance is that im still alive and not even paralzed I should have been from age of 17.
For those who believe God gives enough proof, for those who don't want to believe the only proof is Jesus who died and was raised. (don't remember the place where Jesus was talking about mark of Jonah)
Well if you want to believe go outside, look the world, the complexity, the perfect design, the forces and then search people who have spiritual experiences. Can you question all these?
For me my proof of God's existance is that im still alive and not even paralzed I should have been from age of 17.
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This is a really really good question. As I've already put to death the idea that personal accounts are suitable evidence for anyone besides the person who experienced them, what other methods do we have for discerning whether or not a claim is true? I want you to think, and really think about how you choose your beliefs and what mental processes you go through before determining that a claim is true/ false before we got into deeper philosophical discussion.
I this may sound a little ridiculous, but I want you to asses these two claims, and really think about whether or not you believe them. Do not post right away, I want you to really think about this so we can have an intelligent discussion.
1) There is a banana on my desk.
2) There is a tiny pink unicorn in my closet.
I this may sound a little ridiculous, but I want you to asses these two claims, and really think about whether or not you believe them. Do not post right away, I want you to really think about this so we can have an intelligent discussion.
1) There is a banana on my desk.
2) There is a tiny pink unicorn in my closet.
What I meant by paralyze I don't have (or that Im generally still alive) is that I was at age of 17 in sledge accident where after huge flight in air I hit something invisible but soft just before I was about to hit my head to the road. (in worst case that I realised myself too would been that I would have snapped my neck if I would been hit the road without that "something" to stop me before)
In science, "phenomenon" is true/exists if it can be repeated. This means we cannot prove God scientificly because God is person who decides when and where he acts, not any phenomenon repeatable anytime.
(Unless someone figures out how to prove someones mind existing who don't speak always when you say "hello"...)
(Unless someone figures out how to prove someones mind existing who don't speak always when you say "hello"...)
Is God a "person" now? Interesting...
This principle of repeatability is but one way of discerning facts from falsehoods, but it is not by any means exclusive to science. More over, science does not claim to have any "absolute" truths, as it is under constant scrutiny and revision. When scientists create theories, they aren't necessarily proposing absolute truth, but are presenting empirical models of reality that properly describe all aspects of a very specific observable phenomenon.
Science is also the first to admit when it is wrong, or does not know something (I am using "Science" figuratively here, but I'm sure you understand what I am saying). The theory of Gravity is an empiricley sound model that adequately describes natural phenomen that we witness in daily life. However, if evidence came out tomorrow sugguesting that the theory was not sufficient under certain circumstances, it would be immediatley revoked and revised.
I will give you an example. As you may or may not know, I am a Grad/ PHD student in religious studies at UNC, and I have had the opportunity to take a seminar with a with world-class Archeologist & Anthropologist. He was well known among scholars for having discovered and classified a certain small mamal of the Jurrasic period. He was an elderly man, and had pretty much dedicated his life developing a theory on the migration patterns of these small mamals throughout the era, and had written a books and published over ten scholarly articles just on the subject. One day during the seminar, a graduate student openly challanged his theory; and after a fiery dialogue that lasted the entirity of the seminar, the young man had presented so much irrefutable archeological evidence that it was clear that the world-class scholar had been wrong. His life's work had just been refuted by one outspokenstudent.
He sternly approached the young man, smiled, and shook his hand. He later told us that that days was one of the best in his life. He was happy that he had been proven wrong and his field of study had been progressed further. And here lies the difference between dogmatic faith and rational skepticism. If the theists who claim that science and scientific theory requires as much faith as religion were true, than science as we know it would not exist. It would be a stagnant field, and all the technological/ medical advcancments that we so greatly enjoy would not have come into existence.
This principle of repeatability is but one way of discerning facts from falsehoods, but it is not by any means exclusive to science. More over, science does not claim to have any "absolute" truths, as it is under constant scrutiny and revision. When scientists create theories, they aren't necessarily proposing absolute truth, but are presenting empirical models of reality that properly describe all aspects of a very specific observable phenomenon.
Science is also the first to admit when it is wrong, or does not know something (I am using "Science" figuratively here, but I'm sure you understand what I am saying). The theory of Gravity is an empiricley sound model that adequately describes natural phenomen that we witness in daily life. However, if evidence came out tomorrow sugguesting that the theory was not sufficient under certain circumstances, it would be immediatley revoked and revised.
I will give you an example. As you may or may not know, I am a Grad/ PHD student in religious studies at UNC, and I have had the opportunity to take a seminar with a with world-class Archeologist & Anthropologist. He was well known among scholars for having discovered and classified a certain small mamal of the Jurrasic period. He was an elderly man, and had pretty much dedicated his life developing a theory on the migration patterns of these small mamals throughout the era, and had written a books and published over ten scholarly articles just on the subject. One day during the seminar, a graduate student openly challanged his theory; and after a fiery dialogue that lasted the entirity of the seminar, the young man had presented so much irrefutable archeological evidence that it was clear that the world-class scholar had been wrong. His life's work had just been refuted by one outspokenstudent.
He sternly approached the young man, smiled, and shook his hand. He later told us that that days was one of the best in his life. He was happy that he had been proven wrong and his field of study had been progressed further. And here lies the difference between dogmatic faith and rational skepticism. If the theists who claim that science and scientific theory requires as much faith as religion were true, than science as we know it would not exist. It would be a stagnant field, and all the technological/ medical advcancments that we so greatly enjoy would not have come into existence.
L
He lives on the inside of me, in me he lives and moves and has his being. I am proof 
Miracles are meant for the unbeliever so if you want to see God work
your going to have to get down on your knees and ask him yourself
for one.
Give him a try but you have to have belief - faith when you pray,
God only hears faith from the heart/spirit.
If you want that proof ask him yourself. =3
Here is a tip, when you pray pray in the name of Jesus Christ,
This is a microwave generation where we want things Now! Now! Now!
but if you do want a miracle and you truly believe in your heart God will
show you how real he is.
Miracles are meant for the unbeliever so if you want to see God work
your going to have to get down on your knees and ask him yourself
for one.
Give him a try but you have to have belief - faith when you pray,
God only hears faith from the heart/spirit.
If you want that proof ask him yourself. =3
Here is a tip, when you pray pray in the name of Jesus Christ,
This is a microwave generation where we want things Now! Now! Now!
but if you do want a miracle and you truly believe in your heart God will
show you how real he is.