"Spiritual" vs. "Religious"

[MissCris]

That is not a nice story, I find it even worse as my own church has a thriving youth ministry and I myself am a Leader in house, I lead the younger kids sunday services.
If you look for the bad you will find it. People run churches, people are not perfect. I think it is awful that something like that was going on in your church but it is not the norm and although its not toally impossible it is incredably unlikely to even happen around you again.
I think when looking for a church you need to see it from a people point of view, don't expect it to be perfect but at the same time don't make excuses. There are things about my own church I would do differently and there are things that frustrate me but the good outweighs the bad every time. good luck.

You're right, it's really not a nice story. Sad, but true

I do realize how unlikely it is for something so awful to ever happen again in my sphere, or for it to directly affect me so badly. It's hard to let go of that fear, particularly now having a son whom I'd really like to raise in a church we feel safe in, but I know I need to let it go and learn to trust God more fully.

You're also right about finding a church- I honestly don't purposely find fault with churches, as in, I don't step in the doors and immediately start criticizing things. It's more like, I go to a new church one morning, and at first am pleasantly surprised when anyone is friendly, or if the sermon was good, or whatever. So I go again, and for some reason something rubs me the wrong way...maybe the people ignore me completely or are rude, maybe the sermon seems to conflict with the previous one...I don't know. I go again the next week and I notice they don't focus on something important like communion or...they put too much emphasis on giving them money, or I notice half the congregation has fallen asleep.

But I do need to relax a bit about inconsequential things and look for the greater good. I'll work on that

 

[leelee]

You're right, it's really not a nice story. Sad, but true

I do realize how unlikely it is for something so awful to ever happen again in my sphere, or for it to directly affect me so badly. It's hard to let go of that fear, particularly now having a son whom I'd really like to raise in a church we feel safe in, but I know I need to let it go and learn to trust God more fully.

You're also right about finding a church- I honestly don't purposely find fault with churches, as in, I don't step in the doors and immediately start criticizing things. It's more like, I go to a new church one morning, and at first am pleasantly surprised when anyone is friendly, or if the sermon was good, or whatever. So I go again, and for some reason something rubs me the wrong way...maybe the people ignore me completely or are rude, maybe the sermon seems to conflict with the previous one...I don't know. I go again the next week and I notice they don't focus on something important like communion or...they put too much emphasis on giving them money, or I notice half the congregation has fallen asleep.

But I do need to relax a bit about inconsequential things and look for the greater good. I'll work on that

You will find somewhere. I do have faith for that. If you were in Scotland id invite you to mine....we have really good kids leaders

 

[imperfection]

I think that going to church is reallly really important. It's not so much about being religious and having traditions. And also it's not about us. It's not always about us. It's not about how we feel at church, it's not about if we feel like the worship hour was good, it's not about that. We are the Body of Christ, as the Bible says and we are joined together....all different parts of the Body. Church is a place where you can serve your brothers and sisters in Christ.

We have always been going to church, since I was a small kid. But now my dad had some disappointments at church and he doesn't want to go to church anymore. He says the exact same thing. He can worship God on his own, he can read the Bible on his own, but the truth is, he doesn't. Church keeps you strong in faith, keeps you encouraged, keeps you focused on God.
Of course going to church doesn't save you, but it keeps you strong in faith.

The Bible says: We are the Body of Christ. WE ARE THE CHURCH! So, the church is not a buildind, is not an institution, it's US. WE ARE THE CHURCH. And so the church is where we are, the church is everywhere we go. And the church is the way we are. If you're unhappy with the churches, you need to change your attitude about it. You have to be the church you dream of.


This said....LOVE From our Father for all of you <3

 

[Brandon777]

I see what your saying with the disunity and stagnation of common religion that we find in America in this generation, but that doesn't have to be us. If we see something we don't like about a church, instead of complaining about it, splitting to another church or just not going to church, you can get active in the church and start something for good. Volunteer before you judge. Now if there's no place for you to volunteer, then I'd say forget that church, or if they stop preaching directly from the Word of God. There are a couple verses that come to mind that I simply must mention. Hebrews 10:25 "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching." That is being Biblical not religious as some might term it with a negative connotation; it's a good thing to see God's children gathered together all in one place to praise God and be the movers and shakers of the generation! Let's see what the Bible says about being religious, according to James 1:27 we see a real definition: "Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world." Sounds like someone who wants to get something done for God, not just sit back and listen to a sermon for an hour and go home every week.

Being Spiritual is great if your defining that by the Biblical definition of 1 Corinthians ch2. I hope for you and your brother to believe strictly in the Holy Bible and to test God to see if He is good and true like He says He is. I pray for you two to find a church or start a bible study that you can get excited about and become involved in so you can grow in the knowledge of God together and uplift one another as the Bible would like us to.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'm not saying nothing happened because I don't know BUT you have to ask what if he was innocent MissCriss and it was all an attack of the devil to destroy him, his ministry, and his family (which it would be even if he was guilty of something).

A youth pastor's most vulnerable point is facing criminal sexual assault charges from the young people in his care. The real possibility of trials, loss of job and trial expenses means poverty, possible divorce and loss of children, etc... for years and maybe decades even if he's 100% innocent. This reality was more than he could bear so he murdered himself.

It all reminds me of the McMartin pre-school scandel where hyped up right-wing evangelical Christians got behind a crazy woman's allegations on a nice lady and her son that ran a licensed day care and preschool and ripped them to shreds. These people lost everything and were smeared in the press all over the world. The best prosecutors lined up against them and accused them of worshipping the devil and molesting children in hidden tunnels underneath the center. It was all 100% lies and despite multiple trials and the whole world trying to get them long prison sentences, these Christian people just asserted their innocence and rode it out. In the end, they were declared completely innocent on every count in every trial and they WERE. But they lost everything and could never reclaim it. The devil had his way with them and he used Christians to a large extent to do it.

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ramon]

@leelee At ours too... They encourage a strong, deep relationship with God. I think religious is something technical... spiritual is more of the emotional just my two cents in it.

To be spiritual is not to be emotional.

To be spiritual is to be lead by the Holy Spirit of God. Any church that is lead by emotions or technicalities is not a church at all.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Now Ramon, I have noticed that spiritual Christians are, in fact, emotional. They are joyful, for example. Or have you never heard of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (of which joy is one). And joy is an emotion. So why do you deny it simply because some people pretend?

 

[Ramon]

Now Ramon, I have noticed that spiritual Christians are, in fact, emotional. They are joyful, for example. Or have you never heard of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (of which joy is one). And joy is an emotion. So why do you deny it simply because some people pretend?

The Holy Spirit doesn't make anyone emotional, but he does bring repentance.

Emotions are just the flesh's way of trying to cope with something. It has nothing to do with God.

Many preachers work off of emotions, with the idea that the more emotional they can make the crowd, the more anointing they have. Lie.

So, many preachers work to get peoples emotional attention. But when the Lord Jesus revealed himself to me, I was no longer easily excited by a hyper preacher.

And then I heard a hyper preacher preach, who didn't believe there was a hell, and he cause MANY MANY MANY MANY people to err. And the Lord revealed it to me. So, many people are in hell because they were excited by the very emotional wickedness of this preacher.

And he even kept the truth in, while he saw a man die on a death bed!!!

The Holy Ghost doesn't make people emotional, but when he convicts a person, sometimes their flesh can't cope. And as it was written, we know that the flesh is hostile against the Spirit.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Wrong Ramon. The Holy Spirit often creates an emotional state in people that works to accomplish God's objectives. For example, people often weep in repentance or sing for joy when God touches them.

Just as the mind transcends the brain, emotions are more than the flesh's (e.g. endocrine/nervous system) way of trying to cope with something despite some preachers working off of emotions.

There are professing Christians that aren't really born again; however, there are possessing Christians that certainly are.

May Jesus bless you with the knowledge that the Holy Ghost often affects people deeply in their spirit and this often manifests emotionally. It's a natural reaction which God intended having made both with purpose.

Galations 5:17 (NIV) you quoted states, "For the sinful nature (e.g. flesh) desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature (e.g. flesh). They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want."

This isn't talking about joy and other emotions that ARE "fruits of the Spirit" friend. It's talking about sinful desires.

Your hypothesis is wrong Ramon.

The Holy Spirit doesn't make anyone emotional, but he does bring repentance.

Emotions are just the flesh's way of trying to cope with something. It has nothing to do with God.

Many preachers work off of emotions, with the idea that the more emotional they can make the crowd, the more anointing they have. Lie.

So, many preachers work to get peoples emotional attention. But when the Lord Jesus revealed himself to me, I was no longer easily excited by a hyper preacher.

And then I heard a hyper preacher preach, who didn't believe there was a hell, and he cause MANY MANY MANY MANY people to err. And the Lord revealed it to me. So, many people are in hell because they were excited by the very emotional wickedness of this preacher.

And he even kept the truth in, while he saw a man die on a death bed!!!

The Holy Ghost doesn't make people emotional, but when he convicts a person, sometimes their flesh can't cope. And as it was written, we know that the flesh is hostile against the Spirit.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[Ramon]

Wrong Ramon. The Holy Spirit often creates an emotional state in people that works to accomplish God's objectives. For example, people often weep in repentance or sing for joy when God touches them.

Just as the mind transcends the brain, emotions are more than the flesh's (e.g. endocrine/nervous system) way of trying to cope with something despite some preachers working off of emotions.

There are professing Christians that aren't really born again; however, there are possessing Christians that certainly are.

May Jesus bless you with the knowledge that the Holy Ghost often affects people deeply in their spirit and this often manifests emotionally. It's a natural reaction which God intended having made both with purpose.

Galations 5:17 (NIV) you quoted states, "For the sinful nature (e.g. flesh) desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature (e.g. flesh). They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want."

This isn't talking about joy and other emotions that ARE "fruits of the Spirit" friend. It's talking about sinful desires.

Your hypothesis is wrong Ramon.

It is not a hypothesis at all. The witness is true.

What many people think is the Holy Spirit is a spirit of divination.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[MissCris]

I'm not saying nothing happened because I don't know BUT you have to ask what if he was innocent MissCriss and it was all an attack of the devil to destroy him, his ministry, and his family (which it would be even if he was guilty of something).

A youth pastor's most vulnerable point is facing criminal sexual assault charges from the young people in his care. The real possibility of trials, loss of job and trial expenses means poverty, possible divorce and loss of children, etc... for years and maybe decades even if he's 100% innocent. This reality was more than he could bear so he murdered himself.

It all reminds me of the McMartin pre-school scandel where hyped up right-wing evangelical Christians got behind a crazy woman's allegations on a nice lady and her son that ran a licensed day care and preschool and ripped them to shreds. These people lost everything and were smeared in the press all over the world. The best prosecutors lined up against them and accused them of worshipping the devil and molesting children in hidden tunnels underneath the center. It was all 100% lies and despite multiple trials and the whole world trying to get them long prison sentences, these Christian people just asserted their innocence and rode it out. In the end, they were declared completely innocent on every count in every trial and they WERE. But they lost everything and could never reclaim it. The devil had his way with them and he used Christians to a large extent to do it.

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you for this response That man's innocence is something I have wondered about for the last 6 years or so since it happened. I never knew him to behave inappropriately towards me, nor any of my friends from church, nor my older sister or HER friends (that doesn't make him innocent necessarily, it just makes it harder to believe his guilt). It's entirely possible that with the 2nd accusation, he was overwhelmed and didn't know what else to do but to end his life.

Honestly, I have no idea of his absolute guilt or innocence, but regardless, yes, it was certainly an attack on a man who was otherwise helping young people and leading them to God.

 

[Tobby17]

It's good to be spiritual.. But to separate yourself from fellowship, i'm not so sure about that...

If Devil wants to take over, he tries to draw you out of Fellowship!

 

[MissCris]

It's good to be spiritual.. But to separate yourself from fellowship, i'm not so sure about that...

If Devil wants to take over, he tries to draw you out of Fellowship!

That's the opinion I'm leaning towards

 

[leelee]

To be spiritual is not to be emotional.

To be spiritual is to be lead by the Holy Spirit of God. Any church that is lead by emotions or technicalities is not a church at all.

May Jesus bless you.

But Ramon, I thought you loved God? Thats an emotion pal.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Your hypothesis is false and so that calls into question your witness. God created us to both have and expereience emotions (some of which the Bible refers to as "fruits of the Spirit") for a great many reasons. Your denial of this is delusional.

It is not a hypothesis at all. The witness is true.

What many people think is the Holy Spirit is a spirit of divination.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[MissCris]

The Holy Spirit doesn't make anyone emotional, but he does bring repentance.

Emotions are just the flesh's way of trying to cope with something. It has nothing to do with God.

Many preachers work off of emotions, with the idea that the more emotional they can make the crowd, the more anointing they have. Lie.

Emotions have nothing to do with God? Our Creator?

Ramon..."convicted" as you may feel you are, and though you occasionally spout off with something that even makes perfect sense...I think you're full of beans.

 

[Brandon777]

The Holy Spirit doesn't make anyone emotional, but he does bring repentance.

Emotions are just the flesh's way of trying to cope with something. It has nothing to do with God.

Many preachers work off of emotions, with the idea that the more emotional they can make the crowd, the more anointing they have. Lie.

So, many preachers work to get peoples emotional attention. But when the Lord Jesus revealed himself to me, I was no longer easily excited by a hyper preacher.

And then I heard a hyper preacher preach, who didn't believe there was a hell, and he cause MANY MANY MANY MANY people to err. And the Lord revealed it to me. So, many people are in hell because they were excited by the very emotional wickedness of this preacher.

And he even kept the truth in, while he saw a man die on a death bed!!!

The Holy Ghost doesn't make people emotional, but when he convicts a person, sometimes their flesh can't cope. And as it was written, we know that the flesh is hostile against the Spirit.

May Jesus bless you.

John 11:33,35. When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled... 35 Jesus wept.

Numbers 32:13 The LORD's anger burned against Israel and he made them wander in the desert forty years, until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone.

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Biblical emotions of God. What say you?

 

[Rachel777]

Well is true that Jesus/Christianity is a relationship not a religion, but we should meeting together at church.

Scriptures sites so many times that is good for us meet together at church; take a look :

• Hebrews 10:25
  

25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

• Deuteronomy 31:12
  

Assemble the people, the men and the women and children and the alien who is in your town, so that they may hear and learn and fear the LORD your God, and be careful to observe all the words of this law.

• Psalm 122:1

1 I rejoiced with those who said to me, “Let us go to the house of the LORD.”


I hope it can make it clear for you!

God bless you! xo

 

[Brandon777]

Well is true that Jesus/Christianity is a relationship not a religion, but we should meeting together at church.

God bless you! xo

I'm really tired of hearing that Christianity isn't a religion. It is. James 1 If anyone among you thinks himself to be religious while he doesn’t bridle his tongue, but deceives his heart, this man’s religion is worthless. 27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Let us remain true to the Word. Amen. And God bless you with all grace and understanding.

 

[Sarah88]

Well, I've been to several churches and in almost all of them the pastor or a leader have fallen into sin and then everyone goes their own way. There was a point where I didn't want to go to any church anymore. I still went and still go because the Bible tells us to and it's good to fellowship with other Christians and to hear God's Word. But most of them have been a disappointment to me.