Rich people

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
11,614
1,893
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#41
Mat_19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
Mar_10:21 And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
Luk_12:33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.
Luk_18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
A recent sermon that I listened to said that the main point of these passages is not necessarily money, but rather, which form of idolatry in your life (because we all have one) is keeping you from following God with your whole heart?

Who, or what, do you love more than God?

It could be money. Or it could be your spouse, your parents, your sibling, your child, your job, your hobbies, your sports team (how many people are watching the clock in Sunday service because they're anxious about getting home in time to watch the game?) And on and on it goes.

In other words, Jesus is telling people to make sure they're putting God first above anyone and everything, and if necessary, clear your life of some things or at least distance yourself from them.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,255
888
113
#42
A recent sermon that I listened to said that the main point of these passages is not necessarily money, but rather, which form of idolatry in your life (because we all have one) is keeping you from following God with your whole heart?

Who, or what, do you love more than God?

It could be money. Or it could be your spouse, your parents, your sibling, your child, your job, your hobbies, your sports team (how many people are watching the clock in Sunday service because they're anxious about getting home in time to watch the game?) And on and on it goes.

In other words, Jesus is telling people to make sure they're putting God first above anyone and everything, and if necessary, clear your life of some things or at least distance yourself from them.
One should study Job.
He was a rich man that loved and served God.
God allowed Satan to away take all he had.
Job had some problems dealing with it, but in the end remained dedicated to God. His love never failed.
God gave him more wealth than he had before.
Notice--- God gave Job riches.
God continues to bless some, those He chooses, with wealth.
 

socalpoppy

Junior Member
May 7, 2018
33
22
8
#43
Matthew 19:21-22Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
So do the words of Jesus to the rich young ruler apply to all of us?
 

Dem

Member
Mar 7, 2018
288
54
28
#44
Way to cherry pick and take the bible way out of context. U are forgeting some extremly relevent passages. But i dont like doing leftist thunking for them so lets see if u can figure it out on ur own...
wow were you always this hatful give it a break would ya ricky just quoting some scriptures
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,147
113
#45
Much has been said about the rich.
They are evil.
They love money.
They should pay more taxes.
They are crooks.
Most people are poor because of the rich.

What is your definition of rich?
What salary would one have to earn to be rich?
What net worth makes one rich?
The wealthy get that way because they have a higher intellect, and are thus more capable of collecting resources. Anyone who begrudges the wealthy, are full of envy.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,255
888
113
#46
The wealthy get that way because they have a higher intellect, and are thus more capable of collecting resources. Anyone who begrudges the wealthy, are full of envy.
What some folks fail to understand is that if there were no wealthy people who start and build businesses, there would be no jobs.
 

billsull

New member
Aug 23, 2019
4
0
1
#47
its a sin to be rich according to Jesus who put himself through the kenosis and subdues all believers in him to conform to his express image that transcends all the rich slave owners in the bible that God was tolerating. the rich slave owners in the bible from Abraham to joseph of arithemea? the secret disciple which capitalists don't point out have problems. if job was born after Abrahams bosom he would have been lukewarm because he cant be rich in good works and rich toward himself at the same time. its a sin to be rich does not mean that Jesus cannot save rich people.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,198
4,886
113
#48
its a sin to be rich according to Jesus who put himself through the kenosis and subdues all believers in him to conform to his express image that transcends all the rich slave owners in the bible that God was tolerating. the rich slave owners in the bible from Abraham to joseph of arithemea? the secret disciple which capitalists don't point out have problems. if job was born after Abrahams bosom he would have been lukewarm because he cant be rich in good works and rich toward himself at the same time. its a sin to be rich does not mean that Jesus cannot save rich people.
Welcome to CC!

Abraham was very wealthy, and was blessed by God.

David was very wealthy, and was blessed by God.

Solomon was very wealthy, and was blessed by God.

Being wealthy is not a sin. Jesus never said that it is a sin to be rich, only that it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Making wealth an idol is sinful, but making anything an idol is sinful, and seeking to obtain wealth by sinful means is certainly wrong.

Wealth comes to those who work hard and make wise decisions. What a person does with the wealth in their hands is what God judges. Those who hoard it and spend it only on themselves are not using it as God intends, but those who use it for God's purposes glorify Him.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
5,735
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lawton ok
#49
Balloney! It's a matter of the heart. If someone's heart it with materiel wealth rather than with God they are on the road to perdition! Being poor isn't salvation either. We must become circumcised of the heart. Thats the difference.

If we leave our baggage before the eye of the needle but our hearts remain with the bags were we ever saved?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,910
2,710
113
#50
What is your definition of rich?
The term rich can apply to many things. But as related to money, those who are wealthy enough to own much more than they actually need are rich. It is very subjective, since the rich never have enough (or so it would seem). Each one will have their own concepts.
What salary would one have to earn to be rich?
I would suggest that anyone making over $200,000 a year is rich.
What net worth makes one rich?
A net worth (assets - liabilities) of over one million dollars would be rich.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
775
113
#54
Funny, according to the first meme, over 50% of the population thinks you have to make over 1 million a year to be considered rich, yet according to the website only 1% of the US population makes 1 million or more.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
775
113
#55
Median US income is currently ~ $60k
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,910
2,710
113
#56
Which, unfortunately, is how the majority of rich people are handling it.
And that is exactly why Jesus said that it is extremely difficult for the rich to enter into the Kingdom of God. Wealth is their idol, and they are unable to see that it cannot save them. It is also a cliche (and true) that the rich are generally miserly, while the poor are generous to a fault. Therefore the Bible says that THE LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil, and that covetousness is idolatry.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
11,614
1,893
113
#57
its a sin to be rich according to Jesus who put himself through the kenosis and subdues all believers in him to conform to his express image that transcends all the rich slave owners in the bible that God was tolerating. the rich slave owners in the bible from Abraham to joseph of arithemea? the secret disciple which capitalists don't point out have problems. if job was born after Abrahams bosom he would have been lukewarm because he cant be rich in good works and rich toward himself at the same time. its a sin to be rich does not mean that Jesus cannot save rich people.
I understand that it was Jesus Himself who said that the rich will have a hard time entering heaven.

But I can't help but wonder, why doesn't anyone who condemns the rich first ask, "How Do We Define Who Are the Rich?" and, most importantly, "Do I qualify as being part of the 'rich'?"before declaring that it's always OTHERS who are sinning by being rich.

For example:

* People who talk about the evil rich on a forum such as this have obviously had access to education (reading and writing, and even typing skills), electricity, an electronic device with which to post, and I'm guessing, when they stop typing for a potty break, they're using an indoor, flushing toilet (but I could be wrong.)

* Is someone like this truly unaware that a good number of people in the world do not have access to such things, and therefore, compared to them, the very ones ranting about the rich are part of the same rich people whom they themselves are condemning?

* Does someone who posts such things on the internet truly not realize that they have resources that many other people could only dream of having (starting with the ability to read and write)?

* Why does someone like this not have the self-recognition that to others, THEY are actually that rich person, and how would they then go about repenting? Would they give up electronics, web access, and go dig themselves an outhouse? (What about the person who doesn't have access to an outhouse, or toilet paper? To them, the person who has access to these things might be seen as "rich".) Why does "everyone else" have to repent of being "rich", but yet the person who accuses the rich is somehow always the exception?

I've spent many years in churches that often gave reminders about "the evil rich" and I started to notice a pattern: that person's definition of someone who is "rich" is always the person who has more than they do or something they don't have, but want, whether it be money, a spouse, kids, a good job, etc.

Some of my relatives are currently sharing one car - they could look to the family next door who has 2 cars and say, "Woe to you, you evil rich person! You had better repent, or your very soul is in danger of hell!!!"

But what about the family down the street that has NO car at all - do they then have a right to condemn my relatives for having a car and being "rich", because they don't have one?

I am adopted, and I like keeping in touch with my old adoption agency because I pray that God never lets me forget where I came from. One of the recent stories they published was about families who have no choice but to live in and someone survive off the large garbage dumps outside the cities. These people are socially shunned and their children are barred from going to school because no one wants to associate with this "dirty" group of people. I am guessing that many of these people, most especially their children, would not even know how to use a flushing toilet or what it even was, let alone dream of having one, since they are lucky to have even a tent as their living quarters.

And yet, you always read about "the evil rich."

Why is it so easy to condemn "the rich" as being "those other people" without even hesitating to acknowledge that compared to someone else, almost everyone is "rich" in an area in which another person is poor?

And if someone comes to that realization, how do they then choose to live "poor enough" to be able to be saved?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
775
113
#58
I u

And if someone comes to that realization, how do they then choose to live "poor enough" to be able to be saved?
They pay their workers a living wage. They share their excess with the poor and starving, not with the bankers. They invest in LOCAL companies and organizations instead of parking it off shore. They pay their taxes instead of cheating.

Shall I go on?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
11,614
1,893
113
#59
They pay their workers a living wage. They share their excess with the poor and starving, not with the bankers. They invest in LOCAL companies and organizations instead of parking it off shore. They pay their taxes instead of cheating.

Shall I go on?

I know, Ricky.

With you, it's always "they" and "them."

You're typing on some kind of electrical device.

You have access to electricity.

You were taught the skill of being able to put your thoughts into writing.

Have you used a flushing toilet today?

I guarantee, there are other people in this world that, when compared to them, you are one of the "rich" that you rant about, but you don't see it.

That's something between you and God.

If you feel your calling is to condemn others without seeing it in yourself first, God bless you.

May God hold you to the same standards when compared to anyone who has less than you.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,594
410
83
#60
Although when you can turn water into wine and a few loaves and fish can
feed thousands, not to mention heal sickness (so no need for a doctor)
he probably didn’t need money.
I think you're onto the key here. The person with the need to pile up riches seems quite mistrustful towards God's ability to provide.
Not confusing this with being wise and responsible and working in your youth to have some savings when you're older.
There is a great fear in most people of being like the lilies in the field. I think it's fear of discomfort.