Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[homwardbound]

Sorry Homeward that is NOT what Romans 6:11 says

Here it is within context

6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? [SUP]2 [/SUP]By no means! We are those who have died to sin;how can we live in it any longer? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[SUP][a][/SUP] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [SUP]7 [/SUP]because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
[SUP]11[/SUP]In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Not one word about fire to kill our carnal nature. It says count yourself dead to sin but alive in Christ.

And where has all sin been condmened to?
since you want it in context
Romans 8:3For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
So sin and flesh are synonimous incohesion together.
Sorryyouare not seeing that Christ came to give us life here nad now in the Spirit of his Father as he was and is, he did not need to die and be raised again, christ was perfect from birth on and is still perfect toiday he died and rose again for us that beleive and he said the this i what he came to do, was to give us life and more abundantly, yet the enemy is still out and about
[h=3]John 10:10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

How can one have life here and now abundantly being content in all things, trusting God in God's rest even if they are homeless?
I tell you by being born again know that all things work together for God's good. no longer in the mmind set of sinful flesh.
Hoping you to see through onto the other side in God's kingdom, flesh is at war over the Spirit of Christ we each decide to whom our Master is, we may say it is Christ, and is it though always? No it is a mixtureof one day walking uprightly by the Spirit of God and the next back down on the ground crawling like a worm, when God made born again by his resurrection, just like a caterpillar is a worm and when after it spins a coccon and breaks out of the cocoon it is brand new a butterfly yes?
Will a Butterfly ever be a worm again, can it? Will this brand new creation always go to the right places? No, yet again willit ever be a worm again? This is how it is between God and the one's that are born again, we learn to walk by te Spirit daily where there is no sin, we learn to be dead to flesh here and now period nad I tell you Sister water Babtism is nothing more than a forshadow of waht being born again is the reality itself is in Romans 6 as you quoted trying to seperate flesh ans Sin. Sorry too many scriptures on the flesh that flesh is isnful period, I do notcare howmany ways one dresses it up Flesh is flesh and it is full of look good actions all of sin

 

[SarahM777]

Oh Sister read the verse before, then the verse after confirminig exactly waht Chriat is said
John 3:5-8

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born ofwater and the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’[SUP]8[/SUP]The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

UHH Homeward,

Doesn't Jesus in that verse say very clearly that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven one must be born of what? Doesn't Jesus very clearly say water and the Spirit? What do you think Jesus is talking about? Don't you think maybe Jesus is very plainly speaking of baptisim?

 

[homwardbound]

Sorry Homeward that is NOT what Romans 6:11 says

Here it is within context

6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? [SUP]2 [/SUP]By no means! We are those who have died to sin;how can we live in it any longer? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[SUP][a][/SUP] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [SUP]7 [/SUP]because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
[SUP]11[/SUP]In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Not one word about fire to kill our carnal nature. It says count yourself dead to sin but alive in Christ.

So Sister are you dead to sin Born again, alive to Christ. If you are then you are dead to the flesh
Romans 3:20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
1 Corinthians 1:29That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Galatians 1:16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood

think may be we might not confer with flesh and blood?
Colossians 2:18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

We are called to walk in the Spirit and by this Sin is forsaken not by me,you or anyone else, but by The resurrected Christ living in and through you by the Holy Ghost implanted in youthe day one first believed trying to teach us each to grow up in maturity in the Spirit of God resting from our own works completely and taking on God's rest hebrews 3 and 4 really clear on God's rest for us to stop from our own works and rest in his done at the cross. So simple yet hard for any human being to rest,since he has been taught from birth on to work

 

[homwardbound]

where is there fire in this passage.
please be precise.
you are making assertions and appealing to scripture.
where is baptism by fire

Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6We know that our old selfa was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7For one who has died has been set freeb from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

WHERE does paul say - for one to ask for the fire to kill one's carnal nature being dead here today in the sin nature flesh and alive to God

he doesnt. we are told to put to death the deeds of the FLESH....flesh...not water btw

Oh and the letter today stillkills but ther Spirit gives life, for the Holy Ghost came with fire and water Sister puts out that fire soone can just go on and contiinue ot live in thier flesh andyell out watchmy Smoke see what I doorhow I beleive neverever resting in the Spirit of God thankiing God for his precious amzing gift, no rather out saying watch my smoke and denying to ever die today in the carnal nature of our own minds.
Yuoare askiing like the Pharisees did in unbelief of being born again and have put water in the way, as if it is the waytosalvation there is no born again in water, it is a flesh act and keeps one inthe energy of thier own flesh workiing for God and never pleasing him, and each one knows thisbehind closed doors, those that are still guilty and truly wanting to know God in truth as Ihave seen Cobus post wanting to be adamently in Christand is soberlyawaiting for this adoption, telling truth how is not worthy, and no one is only Christand if one wants to be apartof Christ then read 1 cor 15about the resurrection and then ourselves fall tothe ground and die with Christ, then be raised back to life in the resurrection as Christ is already
Born again is the only way, Do water if anyone wants and feelgood about one's selfin front of everyone else, no problem but it has nothing to do with savingone's soul, only the death,burial and resurrection is what accomplishes this in the one's that believe,that God shows this truth to, and if God has not shown you or me or someone else there is a reason, for God knows the every person inside and out before they try to come to him nad will reveal truth tothose that seek God for the Following, these one's Godwillreveal truth to all of it
"Comfort Me by letting Me know that you would see Me just to dwell in My Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for Me. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

 

[homwardbound]

thats what happens when you reject the simple ordinance of water baptism and your friends try to coach you on how to babble in tongues...since for many that is the EVIDENCE that you got da Holy Ghost Baptism.

kinda.

thank the Lord you are a noob.

avoid such things.....run from it.

Not for me Igot it by the resurrected Christ in the Spirit of Christ, Iwas dead in my sine untilI heard of about the resurrection and went to God asking forthis new life and God pointed me to his son's resurrection at the cross if Iwilling ot count myself dead first at the death of his Son and trust in that that I by Christ am reconciled to God, therefore I a savedby The life of Christ
[h=3]Romans 5:10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Therefore as Paul I am
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Again this by Spirit babtism, not water even though again being water dunked is a good conscious towards God havig that motive only but it does not givelife in the Spirit for if it had then all John dunked would have come out born again but they did not and John again was clear that he must decrease that he only Babtized with water, but Chrisy Babtized with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
So if this is true, how can anyone assume Christ when he said go and babtize in the name of
How can it be assumed he was talking of water, when again John was clear that he was to decrease (water Babtism) and Christ was to increase (Holy Ghost) babtism

 

[homwardbound]

Here is the beginning baptism by fire: Luke 12:49 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?"

Indeed this fire that Jesus sent is this: Lamentations 4:11 "The LORD hath accomplished his fury; he hath poured out his fierce anger, and hath kindled a fire in Zion, and it hath devoured the foundations thereof."

And what is the purpose of that fire? Ezekiel 15:4 "Behold, it is cast into the fire for fuel; the fire devoureth both the ends of it, and the midst of it is burned. Is it meet for any work?
5 Behold, when it was whole, it was meet for no work: how much less shall it be meet yet for any work, when the fire hath devoured it, and it is burned?"

Compare that scripture in Ezekiel 15:4-5 to what Paul told us: 1 Corinthians 3:13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is."

And see that for the former stewards over God's spiritual table that is what the following is: Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (world = aion or age, as in the age of the reign of that Old Covenant Law by it's stewards).
Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We must believe that it is God's will to save rather than destroy: John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

Job 24:14 "The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief."

1 Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Why does the Day of the Lord come that way? Because it is the day of reckoning his stewards for how they have handled the work he gave them to do.

Is God's goal to destroy the person or the flesh? What are the seats of prominence that the Pharisees loved and what did they use those seats to do?

There is yet so very much we need to discuss.

in comparing, Midrach,Shadrach, and Abindigo, hey (King Nebechenezzar) says did we not throw just three in the fire, And I see a fourth. And they are not even touched by the fire, hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! their Faith in the living Savior, and so it shall be for all those that truly believe not touched by the fire
So is in the day as Paul described where allnmust go through the fire. Are we all going through some sort of fire now here on this earth that God has emnity with. So whynot ask God since you beleive in God to turn on the kiln and have any enemy of God be torched todeath here and now being refined as gold. It is by Faith in saying to God do whatever must be done in me to walk with you cosistently as your Son Jesus did, this I ask in your name Father and wahtever youask in the will of Father shall be done by Fahter and is dine thrugh the resurrected Christ back at the cross

 

[homwardbound]

Seems a bit silly to me. Look noob perspective here. You're baptized once you repent denounce your evil ways and truly accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. Seems at that point your baptized in Christ. You wanna throw water on yourself fine, You wanna babble incoherently amiss a group of people go ahead I don't think it has anything to do with cleansing the spirit and living in Christ. Those seem to me to be outward symbols of an inward change. I never spoke in tongues but I know the Holy Spirit resides in me. And I've not been water baptized yet either so how is it possible I have the Holy Spirit? Maybe I don't? But then again who amoung you can judge me to damnation? No one that's right.

For those who truly have the HS working in them there is no mistaking it. The ACT of baptism is symbolic of your actual baptism.

Just this sinners humble opinion feel free to disagree.

Blessings and Love to all,
SeekingJC

[h=3]Acts 10:42-45[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]42 [/SUP]And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[homwardbound]

I disagree. What about:
Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Did Peter not receive the Holy Spirit??? Also there is no salvation without the spirit combine that with the fact that all of us sin so by your logic aint nobody going to be saved. That's a bit sad.

if onen is mixing flesh and Spirit which many today are: then therefore at the very least have our own righteousness to be better than that
Matthew 5:20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
[h=3]Matthew 21:29-32[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]29 [/SUP]The son answered, ‘No, I won’t go,’ but later he changed his mind and went anyway. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the father told the other son, ‘You go,’ and he said, ‘Yes, sir, I will.’ But he didn’t go.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Which of the two obeyed his father?”
They replied, “The first.”
Then Jesus explained his meaning: “I tell you the truth, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do. [SUP]32 [/SUP]For John the Baptist came and showed you the right way to live, but you didn’t believe him, while tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even when you saw this happening, you refused to believe him and repent of your sins.

God today in the Spirit of God teaches us all to say no to unrighteousness by teaching us to love God's way inspite of what others may say or do,and this is the bond of peace, to love our neighbor as self not railing accussations as did the religous leaders do in the day of Christ
It all starts with God drawing us and us then believing and thenGod hiimself carrying on the good work not onlyinus but more importantly throuh us, we understanding what Paul meant by this saying
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Think this might be for us as well? All gory goes to God, not having any righteousness ever of our own, onlyChrist's righteousness is what we are to show. We partake in this, we are oureselves not this, but we can partake and show this Christ and Father getting all the glory

 

[homwardbound]

When it comes to the gift of speaking in tongues, It is quite clear that this was the tongues of the languages of mankind and that God used this gift to cross through the language barriers for the purpose of extending the Good News concerning God's kingdom by Christ to the entire world.

At Pentecost when the New Covenant was inaugurated by the outpouring of Holy Spirit per the prophecy of Joel, we see clearly what those tongues were and what they were used for.

But some have misunderstood statements by Paul, such as, 1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

And such as, 1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

I am not going to discuss those here, but if any would like to dig deeper into what those and simular statements by Paul really mean, they are welcome to ask me, one verse at a time.

The only deepness here is without Charity (love) God's in other words one cangoabout and do whatever they wish but if you do not have God you have nothing and the bookof Ecclessiastes is a good read here as well
Bottom line if one does not have god's Love best described in1cor 13:4-13, he has nothing but just a clanging symbol, and only bein of the Spirit of God can one recieve this type of love, no flesh can orever weill.even thoughit tries awfully hard to do so.
Born again by the resurrection and recieve the Holy Ghost of promise and be taught by God and share with each other, without quibblings and arguing, respectfully ponder what each says and grow there by the grace of God as God confirms truth in each and every one of us through the hidden man of our new hearts.
Romans 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
So again how about it let's learn to be dead to our own flesh and all others as well, and just be alive to God. We are shown here clearly how one actually does serve God Yes?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

The only deepness here is without Charity (love) God's in other words one cangoabout and do whatever they wish but if you do not have God you have nothing and the bookof Ecclessiastes is a good read here as well
Bottom line if one does not have god's Love best described in1cor 13:4-13, he has nothing but just a clanging symbol, and only bein of the Spirit of God can one recieve this type of love, no flesh can orever weill.even thoughit tries awfully hard to do so.
Born again by the resurrection and recieve the Holy Ghost of promise and be taught by God and share with each other, without quibblings and arguing, respectfully ponder what each says and grow there by the grace of God as God confirms truth in each and every one of us through the hidden man of our new hearts.
Romans 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
So again how about it let's learn to be dead to our own flesh and all others as well, and just be alive to God. We are shown here clearly how one actually does serve God Yes?

Amen.

I just finished posting this in another thread about tongues:

"Surely the angels who spoke anywhere in the scriptures spoke in the common tongue of those they spoke to. Paul's point at 1 Cor 13:1 is merely that they are better able to be articulate and refine the points they make in our own language better than we are.

Any language they spoke would be their tongue, thus the tongue of angels."

I should have included that they are better able to speak any tongue they choose to speak to men with, especially excellent in the way you there described.

 

[homwardbound]

These are great questions Homewardbound and you know I love ya. I believe that the passion for this subject by all parties is a great thing because each participant is about getting and keeping their walk with Jesus real. There is one scripture that we all agree on, if we do not Love Jesus, no one is going anywhere but down.

If I might chime-in on these questions with this comment, there remain one scripture that all at the CC stumble.

The scriptures say:

Matthew 7th Chapter

19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20] Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21] "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22] Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

The scriptures say the Lord rejected them and said that He never knew them. Many have given commentary but I can only find two reasons for the Lord rejecting these people:

Hypotheses

1] They omit the "water baptism" as a necessary deed and 2] They are Sorcerers/Charlatans or their Hearts are void of "Love".

Supporting Data

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

20] But Peter said unto him, Your money perish with you, because you have thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21] You have neither part nor lot in this matter: for your heart is not right in the sight of God.

This example is self-evident—Simon believed, accepted water baptism, but was not “born again”. This example teaches that believing is not enough to be born again. To be “Born Again” a believer must be “baptized in water” and “Receive the Holy Spirit”; just as Jesus stated.

Moreover, it is important to understand that Simon did not argue with the process requirements, which included “water baptism”—he obeyed.

In like manner, the townspeople could not receive the Holy Spirit for lack of belief because Simon had deceived them but they did follow through with the baptism by water; Acts the 8th chapter. After Peter freed the peoples mind from the (witchcraft) deception, the townspeople received the Holy Spirit in mass numbers.

The other is “intent”.

Example:

King Saul had all the anointing that King David had and the blessings of the prophet in his favor. Saul’s heart (mind) was rebellious; the scriptures say that rebellion (disobedience) is worse than witchcraft.

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Saul received a simple command from God and instead of following it; Saul modified the command for personal gain and believed his anointing had higher authority than did Daniel the prophet. Because Saul rebelled (disobeyed God’s word), he lost his anointing and his Spiritual and natural progeny; i.e., God rejected him from the “kingdom”.

I conclude that the reason Jesus will reject those in Matt 7:22 is for these reasons:

Rebellion to God’s word that commands and reveals His will concerning the necessity of “water baptism”, and possessing the gifts of the Spirit without “Agape”. I include agape because Jesus clearly states in (NT) John 14:15 that if you love Him you will keep His commandments; not as King Saul who rebelled at the command (Word) of the prophet.

Please note that Jesus in the Matthew scripture above: They performed all of the Lord's commandments; i.e. prophesying, casting out devils, miracles and all in the name of Jesus with the exception of the water baptism--this cannot be ignored.

This is my hypothesis concerning “water and Spirit baptisms” as a necessity for being “Born Again”. All comments welcomed.


Please Note That The Scriptures Say "To Enter The kingdom of God" this subject does not say nor does the Bible say that the person that believes will not receive eternal life. Once and again, it says to enter the "kingdom of God".[/QUOTE
Again water Babtism is great as in the motive for to serve God, yet only God can be served in only
John 4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
And that hour has come after the death, burial, and resurrection.
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

The day of Pentecost came and is here today for each individual believer, that God draws to himself
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 14:17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[homwardbound]

I respectfully disagree my friend. Please consider the following scriptures:

Acts 19

1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

I highlighted in bold the text that counts two baptisms; 1] in "water" and 2] by the "Holy Ghost". Two very distinct and separate acts. How can anyone refute this?

okay, and you consider these scriptures
Acts 19:4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Two differant babtisms which one gives life and which one was to increase and which one was and is suppose to decrease?

John 3:30He must increase, but I must decrease.

Read the whole chapter on John 3
If god willing it might be very enlightening

And finally what was John's ultimate purpose in Babtizing? was his job over after he Baptized the Christ, Messiah?

1. Matthew 3:17
   And a voice from heaven said, “This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy.”
   Matthew 3:16-17 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Matthew 17:5But even as he spoke, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy. Listen to him.”
   Matthew 17:4-6 (in Context) Matthew 17 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. Mark 1:11And a voice from heaven said, “You are my dearly loved Son, and you bring me great joy.”
   Mark 1:10-12 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. Mark 9:7Then a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my dearly loved Son. Listen to him.”
   Mark 9:6-8 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
5. Luke 3:22and the Holy Spirit, in bodily form, descended on him like a dove. And a voice from heaven said, “You are my dearly loved Son, and you bring me great joy.”
   Luke 3:21-23 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
6. Luke 9:35Then a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.”
   Luke 9:34-36 (in Context) Luke 9 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

 

[kardiaoangelous]

in comparing, Midrach,Shadrach, and Abindigo, hey (King Nebechenezzar) says did we not throw just three in the fire, And I see a fourth. And they are not even touched by the fire, hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! their Faith in the living Savior, and so it shall be for all those that truly believe not touched by the fire
So is in the day as Paul described where allnmust go through the fire. Are we all going through some sort of fire now here on this earth that God has emnity with. So whynot ask God since you beleive in God to turn on the kiln and have any enemy of God be torched todeath here and now being refined as gold. It is by Faith in saying to God do whatever must be done in me to walk with you cosistently as your Son Jesus did, this I ask in your name Father and wahtever youask in the will of Father shall be done by Fahter and is dine thrugh the resurrected Christ back at the cross

I take that well and assure that I am doing. You notice that I do not judge what you have said but rather seek the benefit of the holiness of the word contained in it?

If I ever appear to be anxious to you in anything, know that is only imagination, for I am at full peace in God, just as you also seem to me to be. What you might see is but a different angle of approach at times, which is necessary, for those to whom we speak must have many different approaches presented to them, as just as with the different angles to view the same truth, they all have different ones that our better suited to them, which is able to gain their attention and impart to them understanding.

But I like very much the spirit of love in which you extend such beautiful counsel. And I love that picture of the fourth person being with Midrach, Shadrach, and Abindigo. I, too, know that if God stand not beside me in spirit, I am nothing of myself.

The fire that devours them is in the power of the word by the spirit upon it. And if we do not stay in and walk the spirit we cannot possibly have that.

 

[homwardbound]

I respectfully disagree my friend. Please consider the following scriptures:

Acts 19

1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

I highlighted in bold the text that counts two baptisms; 1] in "water" and 2] by the "Holy Ghost". Two very distinct and separate acts. How can anyone refute this?

there is only one baptism, one of water before the cross,even though people carry it on still, and one after the cross John's Babtism before the cross and Christ's babtism after the cross
One Law of Moses before the cross and new laws of love from God to all that believe, a new covenant and a new Priesthood, again I see nothing wrong withwater babtism if so one chooses,but again this is only for a goodconscious to God from that individual as Peter said after he finally grew up in maturity, Wow evenafter he failed miserably by denying Christ 3 times, christ on the shore after the resurrection, saying to Peter how much do you love me. Yes Christ forgave him and all the world,

1. Luke 22:34
   But Jesus said, “Peter, let me tell you something. Before the rooster crows tomorrow morning, you will deny three times that you even know me.”
   Luke 22:33-35 (in Context) Luke 22 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Luke 22:61At that moment the Lord turned and looked at Peter. Suddenly, the Lord’s words flashed through Peter’s mind: “Before the rooster crows tomorrow morning, you will deny three times that you even know me.”
   
   Peter had to mature and even Paul did rebuke him for his inmaturity in
   [h=3]Galatians 2:11-21[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)
   
   [h=3]Paul Confronts Peter[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. [SUP]12 [/SUP]When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. [SUP]13 [/SUP]As a result, other Jewish Christians followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
   [SUP]14 [/SUP]When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?
   [SUP]15 [/SUP]“You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”
   [SUP]17 [/SUP]But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! [SUP]18 [/SUP]Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.
   
   Peter grew up in the Faith and counted Water Babtism as only a good conscious toward God was clear on it not washing away one's sins. Peter had the wanttobe accepted by others and fear of what others might doto him if he stood up for Christ, fear of the people controlled him a lot of the times yet in him he truly desired to do what is right
   
   [h=3]1 Peter 3:13-22[/h]King James Version (KJV)
   
   [SUP]13 [/SUP]And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
   [SUP]14 [/SUP]But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
   [SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
   [SUP]16 [/SUP]Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
   [SUP]17 [/SUP]For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
   [SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
   [SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
   [SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
   [SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
   [SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
   
   
   The only putting away of the filth of the flesh is through death as we agree to die with Christ back at thecross and thus be resurrected with Christ by the resurrectionof Christ. In other his death becomes our death and his Life resurrected one becomes our life
   [h=3]Romans 6:1-11[/h]King James Version (KJV)
   
   6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
   [SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
   [SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
   [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
   [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
   [SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
   [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
   [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
   [SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
   [SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
   [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
   
   
   
   

 

[homwardbound]

Paul clearly did both...

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

The scripture in Ephesians has always been controversial but it applies to the body of Christ and monotheism. Water baptism at this phases of Church growth understood that for new believers it was necessary to be baptized in water and by the Holy Ghost.

Okay let us say this then, what if they never recieved the Holy Ghost Babtism? Just the water of John's would they be saved when the only way to serve God today is in God's Spirit

1. John 4:23
   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
   John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
   John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. John 14:17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
   John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
   John 16:12-14 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
5. Ephesians 5:9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
   Ephesians 5:8-10 (in Context) Ephesians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
6. 2 Thessalonians 2:13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
   2 Thessalonians 2:12-14 (in Context) 2 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
7. 1 John 4:6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
   1 John 4:5-7 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
8. 1 John 5:6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

 

[homwardbound]

I very much like the way you have simplified that to us. Thank you.

In it I can see where we could see entering the water as a symbol of re-entering the womb, but this time the womb filled with the water of God's word of truth, so that we are born again by the life in that water of the word, into Christ as matured Christians.

There is much comparison in that to Galatians chapter 4, but I will not over complicate this comment with a discussion of that, for the moment.

yes but how many here in this world see it this way,when it is a requirement for Church membership, so one does this water dunk for what purpose? To be accepted by God only as a good conscious or for acceptance by all thier inthat congregation and get pats on the back that only make you feel good about oneself, and by no means inany honor to God, playing Church as Christ said
[h=3]Matthew 23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, I believe as you that not only did Jesus liken the "New Birth" experience to a natural birth, he then gave Peter the "Keys" to the kingdom of God, which is the new birth revelation of "How to Be Born Again".

It takes the Spirit to "see" the things of God. Honest believers desire to see the spiritual things concerning God. To do so, it will take the "New Birth" experience to enter "into" that realm; not everyone can receive the "meat" of the Word. I appreciate the way the Apostle Paul said it "You are New Creatures". "What type of New Creature?" a new type of spirit being come alive in Christ Jesus.

There is nothing we can do with this flesh except keep it under (subjection) control by our "renewed" minds in Jesus. What we cannot handle ourselves, the Holy Spirit will make us aware of what is an offense, forgive us when we repent, then defend us against the "Accuser of the Saints".

Again, the scriptures point to the fact that we control our wills and where we are weak in the flesh, Jesus is "quicker" to extend His grace until we get it right. We that understand this are to bear or encourage those that self-condemn, which is a trick of the devil to control our will through deception. We all have sinned and we all are with sin so long as we remain in this (body of death) flesh.

Baptism Examples Pointing to the present:

Noah; baptized in the flood >The Hebrew; baptized in the Red Sea > Israeli Priest washed with water before entering the holy place--mikvah-ritual immersion > and any Church age believer that desires to enter into the kingdom of God must do so through Jesus--He is that holy place.

so then by the operation of God consider thyself dead to flesh here and now
Romans 7:6But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit
[h=3]Romans 7:4-6[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.

[h=3]Romans 7:21-25[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. [SUP]22 [/SUP]I love God’s law with all my heart. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

So what am I to do about it except die to the Law (sin) that is produced by the Law because flesh is weak, the Law itself Holy and just, if I die to it with Christ willingly then I can be raised to new life by God as Christ also was and is, by the operation of God
And then guess what?
Romans 8:1
[ Life in the Spirit ] So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus

Because you are seeking after the Spirit of truth, and learning to consider yourself dead to flesh (sin) and alive to God

[h=3]Romans 6:3-7[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. [SUP]6 [/SUP]We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin.

Now let us be clear on one thing here the Babtism is not said to be water or Spirit, this is not made clear
Yet since no one can be born again except by the Spirit of God this Babtism that is spoken of is not water, even though people use it as water and turn it into a symbol as if one is born again this way
Again John was clear on his Babtism diminishing and Christ's Babtism was to become the babtism not of water but of the Holy Ghost. And this today is what we are all in after the cross in a new Covenant, new Laws and under a new Priesthood
See it if God will permit

 

[homwardbound]

UHH Homeward,

Doesn't Jesus in that verse say very clearly that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven one must be born of what? Doesn't Jesus very clearly say water and the Spirit? What do you think Jesus is talking about? Don't you think maybe Jesus is very plainly speaking of baptisim?

He clearlystated this in the nerxt verse,
[h=3]John 3:4-6[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.

The fight Sister is between flesh and Spirit

[h=3]John 3:4-6[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This cleary is not water Babtismthat he speaks of because of the clarification in verse 6

Clearly inverse 6 after verse 5 it is stated what Christ was saying

 

[homwardbound]

I take that well and assure that I am doing. You notice that I do not judge what you have said but rather seek the benefit of the holiness of the word contained in it?

If I ever appear to be anxious to you in anything, know that is only imagination, for I am at full peace in God, just as you also seem to me to be. What you might see is but a different angle of approach at times, which is necessary, for those to whom we speak must have many different approaches presented to them, as just as with the different angles to view the same truth, they all have different ones that our better suited to them, which is able to gain their attention and impart to them understanding.

But I like very much the spirit of love in which you extend such beautiful counsel. And I love that picture of the fourth person being with Midrach, Shadrach, and Abindigo. I, too, know that if God stand not beside me in spirit, I am nothing of myself.

The fire that devours them is in the power of the word by the spirit upon it. And if we do not stay in and walk the spirit we cannot possibly have that.

Absolutely AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and to all pleaselet us all seek to learn from one another mainly and most importantly truth that does set each of us free in Christ our risen savior
I know I have discerned many truths shown to you that God took and showed them to me as well, iron we all have and iron sharpens iron

 

[livingepistle]

Baptism is obeying God pure and simple. Acts 2:38 says to be baptised

Careful with that sword...I have one also, different hilt though and unlike what is shown in your Avatar; my crucifix is branded within my heart where I live it not wear it...thus the name livingepistle-get it?. LOL Just a little humor before I make my comment.

Well mwc68, I agree but...every true Saint of God was drawn by His spirit unto himself. The meaning is that believers have different ways of learning and everyone must adjust at the rate they process information. The epistles to the Churches throughout the 1st Century world, were based upon the knowledge and understanding of the congregations to whom they were sent. The same applies to the CC forum.

The Apostle Peter, the one Jesus trusted with the keys to the kingdom of God, states in his epistle: 1 Peter 3:15; "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" <end of quote>

Please explain to me why Acts 2:38 says to get baptized, what is the significance of the water?

For the record this is not a trap but I am interested in knowing what scriptural support you offer besides Acts 2:38. My question is presented to you with brotherly love, kindness, and reverence for you as a child of Jesus. and this is a good conversation.