gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

[john832]

God's love is the fulfillment of all Law
1 John 4:18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
Galatians 5:7[ Love Fulfills the Law ] You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
Galatians 5:8This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
Galatians 5:13For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Okay so if you choose totry and obey the letter of the law so be it, this is your free choice, and I personally tried this and came tothe end of the energy of my own flesh and thus saw waht Christ did already past tense for me andthus recieved the fulfillment of all Commandments. LOVE best described by god through Paul as in 1 cor 13:4-13
Love you, seeing you are maturing nad God is the one that matures each of us, keeping us humble along the way

OK, so again, let's cut to the chase, do you obey the Commandments or not? Do you personally do them?

 

[john832]

And then I shall keep on doing the same things?

do you?
i don't.

No, I strive to be obedient. I strive to obey.

are you always successful?
i'm not.

Of course not. I sin daily. There was only one without sin.

are you without sin?
i'm not?

No, I sin, just as everyone else does.

do you obey the whole Law?
i won't even go there.

I strive to. I certainly am not perfect, but then again, because I am not perfect, I don't throw in the towel and acquiesce to every sinful thought and desire. I try very hard to do what is right...

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

But Christ was perfect in it, I am not.

 

[john832]

cults and false teachers (Lawyers pretending Law is Grace) will always re-define Biblical terms and principles to fit their own pet heresies and hobby-horses:

example: transgression (rebellion) vs missing the mark (sin).
one is forgiven, the other is not.

Just curious where your definition came from...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

John says that transgressing the Law is sin.

Strong has it...

G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Thayer has it...

G458
ἀνομία
anomia
Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G459
Citing in TDNT: 4:1085, 646

one must purify their own hearts (which are stony; evil; filled with filthiness; deceitful beyond cure) before God will forgive (even though He said it is HE WHO CIRCUMCISES THE HEART - giving man a new heart since the old was beyond cure)

Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed.

pesha: transgression
Original Word: פֶּ֫שַׁע
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: pesha
Phonetic Spelling: (peh'-shah)
Short Definition: transgressions

Word Origin
from pasha
Definition
transgression
NASB Translation
breach of trust (1), rebellion (6), rebellious (1), rebellious act (2), rebellious acts (2), transgression (37), transgressions (45).

THE ONLY TRANSGRESSIONS GOD DOES NOT FORGIVE ARE THOSE WHICH ARE COVERED UP, AND NOT CONFESSED.

to say anything less of Him, is blasphemy.

Skinski, you go to the OT, and search for all the times God said he would not forgive transgressions.
and you just can't seem to understand why The Law demands something from us it can make us do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And then I shall keep on doing the same things?

lol. Your joking right? who is claiming we should keep on living as before..

You have it backwards.. your trying to earn salvation by doing it. we are doing it because we have been given salvation..

get it right, and you will fully understand grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, I strive to be obedient. I strive to obey.



Of course not. I sin daily. There was only one without sin.



No, I sin, just as everyone else does.



I strive to. I certainly am not perfect, but then again, because I am not perfect, I don't throw in the towel and acquiesce to every sinful thought and desire. I try very hard to do what is right...

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

But Christ was perfect in it, I am not.

who says we are not doing the same.

question. when you sin,, do you go to abba father, or go to the law? and do you know what abba father even means?

 

[zone]

Just curious where your definition came from...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

John says that transgressing the Law is sin.

Strong has it...

G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Thayer has it...

G458
ἀνομία
anomia
Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G459
Citing in TDNT: 4:1085, 646

it's not my distinction.
a certain poster keeps making the distinction so he can claim he isn't a pig-pen rebel but makes mistakes on occassion.

 

[john832]

lol. Your joking right? who is claiming we should keep on living as before..

You have it backwards.. your trying to earn salvation by doing it. we are doing it because we have been given salvation..

get it right, and you will fully understand grace.

I am trying to 'earn' nothing, I am simply trying to do what I see commanded in the Bible. Obedience does not earn salvation, but disobedience can earn quite the opposite...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[john832]

it's not my distinction.
a certain poster keeps making the distinction so he can claim he isn't a pig-pen rebel but makes mistakes on occassion.

OK, went over my head but perhaps it is better I am not in that scuffle.

Peace and blessings to you.

 

[Skinski7]

it's not my distinction.
a certain poster keeps making the distinction so he can claim he isn't a pig-pen rebel but makes mistakes on occassion.

The Bible makes the distinction very clearly.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Two kinds of sins. Sin unto death and sin not unto death.

Paul makes a distinction between "sin unto death" and "obedience unto righteousness."

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Those who have been set free from being a slave of sin are no longer YIELDED to sin.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

This is why there is no rebellion in an individual who is abiding in Jesus Christ.

If there is rebellion in an individual who is abiding in Christ then what does "abiding" mean? Trusting Jesus while one still walks their own way?

No. There can be no rebellion to God in Christ otherwise Christ would be a minister to sin (Gal 2:17). We are to live unto God as servants of righteousness thus we do know if we know Him...

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



Let me ask you a simple question Zone.

Does a genuine Christian have a pure heart?

 

[Skinski7]

And the Law of Love is what?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Christ and John both say that love is keeping the Commandments. I gotta go with them on this one.

The commandments of Jesus is every single direction He gave. It is not the Ten Commandments. Jesus taught that the Ten are summed up in the commandments of love God and love your neighbour.

This is why Paul in 2Cor 3 said this...

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

We are not to look at the law written on stone. NO! That is but a shadow. We are to look to Christ and abide in His Spirit which is the source. Thus we become a law unto ourselves for we are submitted to the Spirit of God and the fruit borne of that state is godliness.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Not liberty to sin. Liberty to do good without being burdened by the letter.

 

[john832]

who says we are not doing the same.

question. when you sin,, do you go to abba father, or go to the law? and do you know what abba father even means?

Hmmm, confusing. The Law defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

When one sins they go to the Father through Christ...

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Just as John tells us to...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And we receive grace. The unearned, undeserved pardon for transgressing the Law.

You seem to have a difficult time understanding the concept of Law, sin, grace and forgivness.

Oh, by the way Abba means Daddy. Not to be confused with the swedish singing group.

 

[crossnote]

If you believe we can't help but sin,, I would ask you why you would even leave children with others? The statement was made to make a point! Obviously, we can keep the Law!!!!!! Obviously, we can and do trust others with our children,, fully believing they can obey the 10 Commandments!

Just because, we all have made the CHOICE to sin, doesn't mean we have to keep sinning. Jesus attested to that when He said "go and sin no more."

We all have sinned. Even if you have only committed one sin at anytime in your life, you need a savior.

Sin is not a must. We don't have to keep sinning.

Again,, I say,,,,This entire thread is about those who beleive they can keep the law as a means to salvation...... And Again I ask,,,, Who are these Christians that this thread is speaking of?

I know of no Christians that are keeping the Commandments as a means for Salvation! I don't beleive there are any! Hence the word "christian"!

In other words, this whole thread is a farce. Can anybody name this Christian group of people that is keeping the Commandments as a means to Salvation? I will wait for that answer, although I know it will never come,,, because there are no Christians keeping the Commandments of a means to gain Salvation. Christians know they are saved by Grace and Grace alone!

No this thread is about the insufficiency of the Law and the sufficiency of Jesus Christ.

 

[zone]

The Bible makes the distinction very clearly.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Two kinds of sins. Sin unto death and sin not unto death.

Paul makes a distinction between "sin unto death" and "obedience unto righteousness."

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Those who have been set free from being a slave of sin are no longer YIELDED to sin.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

This is why there is no rebellion in an individual who is abiding in Jesus Christ.

If there is rebellion in an individual who is abiding in Christ then what does "abiding" mean? Trusting Jesus while one still walks their own way?

No. There can be no rebellion to God in Christ otherwise Christ would be a minister to sin (Gal 2:17). We are to live unto God as servants of righteousness thus we do know if we know Him...

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



Let me ask you a simple question Zone.

Does a genuine Christian have a pure heart?

morally pure every moment of every day?

no.

and the fact you continue to make the claim about yourself just shows how deluded you are.

passages like these don't belong in the Bible then, Skinski?


Psalm 32:5
My sin I cause Thee to know, And mine iniquity I have not covered. I have said, 'I confess concerning My transgressions to Jehovah,' And Thou -- Thou hast taken away, The iniquity of my sin. Selah.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Leviticus 26:40
"'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors--their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me

Job 31:33
if I have concealed my sin as people do, by hiding my guilt in my heart

Psalm 38:18
I confess my iniquity; I am troubled by my sin.

Psalm 103:12
as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Proverbs 28:13
Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.

 

[Skinski7]

lol. Your joking right? who is claiming we should keep on living as before..

You have it backwards.. your trying to earn salvation by doing it. we are doing it because we have been given salvation..

get it right, and you will fully understand grace.

The issue is not that "doing" somehow EARNS salvation. Salvation is simply wrought via the dynamic of "working together with God."

Doing is not a result of salvation. Good fruit is a result of salvation. Doing is a result of godly sorrow working a genuine change of mind unto salvation.

There must be doing BEFORE salvation can take place.

Noah DID by building the Ark BEFORE the flood came.

The prodigal son DID by forsaking the pig pen in order to seek out his father BEFORE he was restored.

This is not saying that one "saves themselves." NO!. It is simply stating that DOING is a condition mandated by God that must be present for God to author the salvation of someone. God is not the author the salvation of those who remain disobedient because they are in rejection of the implanted word which would save their souls.

 

[zone]

God is not the author the salvation of those who remain disobedient because they are in rejection of the implanted word which would save their souls.

who said God saves those who reject the implanted word?

you just don't what that means.

 

[Skinski7]

Skinski in Blue.

morally pure every moment of every day?

no.

and the fact you continue to make the claim about yourself just shows how deluded you are.

passages like these don't belong in the Bible then, Skinski?

They all belong in the Bible but they are not to be isolated and ripped out of context.

Psalm 32:5
My sin I cause Thee to know, And mine iniquity I have not covered. I have said, 'I confess concerning My transgressions to Jehovah,' And Thou -- Thou hast taken away, The iniquity of my sin. Selah.

Yet you skip over this verse Zone...

Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Psalm 32 is in the context of a genuine repentance where the rebellion has CEASED.


1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

The context of that passage is this...

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

IF we WALK in the light as He is in the light (with no darkness at all) THEN the blood cleanses us of all sin. You leave out the conditions by isolating a verse from its context.

1Joh 1:8-10 are REPENTANCE verses within the context of how one is to approach God with a true heart seeking reconciliation (Heb 10:22).

God grants mercy to those who confess AND FORSAKE their sin. Not to those who merely confess and keep doing it.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

John is teaching that we cannot approach God claiming we have no sin to our account, ie. we have not sinned. He is not teaching that a Christian will always be sinning and confessing and if they are not then they have no truth in then. If such was the case then he would not say this...
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

IF not WHEN.

John also writes this...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Verses which are denied because they contradict how people misuse 1Joh 1:8-9 to promote ongoing iniquity in the life of a Christian.

Leviticus 26:40
"'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors--their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me

You treat the Bible like a menu. You'll quote all the "confess" passages whilst ignoring all the "forsake" passages.

Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

The Bible is like a car. In order to go from A to B you need wheels, gas, an engine, drive shaft, steering wheel etc. It is true to say "fill the car with gas and you'll be able to get to town." Yet that statement is a conditional truth on the car having wheels, an engine, drive shaft etc.

It is the same with the Bible. Mercy being granted upon the confession of sin is a truth but only within the context of the sin being forsaken.

False teachers isolate and proof text scripture in order to deceive the simple with ear tickling doctrines which make an allowance for ongoing iniquity. Is that what you do Zone?

Job 31:33
if I have concealed my sin as people do, by hiding my guilt in my heart

Hence the need to...

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Yet what you are claiming is that a Christian will always remain defiled within and true Christians admit that they are still inwardly filthy. Thus you oppose those who deny that "inward filthiness" is the state of a genuine Christian.

Your doctrine is absent heart purity. Your doctrine is a cloak for ongoing wickedness isn't it? How could it not be because you decry that wickedness actually ceases but instead remains within the heart (1Joh 1:8-9 right?).

Psalm 38:18
I confess my iniquity; I am troubled by my sin.
Why always exclusively pick verses to try and defend the notion of "sin you will and sin you must."What about...Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Or how about this one...

2Pe_3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Your use of 1Joh 1:8-9 is to deny Peter and teach that one will always be spotted and full of blame.

Psalm 103:12
as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

On condition of repentance and faith. Not merely admitting one is sinful.

Proverbs 28:13
Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.

Great verse. Confess AND renounce. The rebellion ceases.

 

[zone]

Skinski in Blue.

okay skinski.
if you want to make rebellion about willfully spitting in God's face and running around hiding sin, etc.
i'm okay with that.

"2Pe_3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Your use of 1Joh 1:8-9 is to deny Peter and teach that one will always be spotted and full of blame."

this is a LIE.

i don't run around seeing how much sin i can take part in every day.
you just have no idea what PERFECT means.


we are blameless as we are forgiven and cleansed.
we will be presented blameless on that day.
and it won't be because we became SPOTLESS LIKE JESUS.

though you act that way.

you don't know what justified means.

Skinski, you're a Pelagian (among other heresies).
no need for Christ to die.
man just needed more time to get the message and clean up his act.

nuthin to say to you really.
bye now

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A change of what Law?

The law of Moses. That law was received through the Levitical priesthood. With a change of the priesthood comes a new law - the law of the spirit of life in Christ.

 

[Skinski7]

Skinski in blue.

okay skinski.
if you want to make rebellion about willfully spitting in God's face and running around hiding sin, etc.
i'm okay with that.

Rebellion is simply refusing to yield to God and thus walking one's own way. It doesn't have to be necessarily have to be about "hiding sin." A rebel can can confess their sin all day and yet they simply refuse to lay it aside.

"2Pe_3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Your use of 1Joh 1:8-9 is to deny Peter and teach that one will always be spotted and full of blame."

this is a LIE.

i don't run around seeing how much sin i can take part in every day.
you just have no idea what PERFECT means.

I never claimed you "run around seeing how much sin i can take part in every day." That is a strawman.

It is not about "how much" but the fact that you use 1Joh 1:8-9 out of context to teach "sin you will and sin you must." Thus rebellion still exists within the framework of your view of salvation. In other words you believe you can sin and not surely die (whether it is ONE sin or MANY is irrelevant).

Is that not what you believe?

Don't you also believe that one can never actually CHOOSE TO DO RIGHT all the time? That one MUST choose evil from time to time?

Address the specifics of what I write and then we can get to the meat of the matter. We can compare it all to the Bible and see what the truth is.

we are blameless as we are forgiven and cleansed.
we will be presented blameless on that day.
and it won't be because we became SPOTLESS LIKE JESUS.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Yes we do become spotless like Jesus via abiding in Him whereby we are made clean.

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Wherefore we are to...

1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Jesus gave Himself in order to make us pure. He did not give Himself in order that God PRETEND we are pure while we are still actually defiled. That is nonsense.

though you act that way.

you don't know what justified means.

It means this...

Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

In other words God reckons one as just despite their past rebellion. God is willing to overlook the past and give one a fresh start. Yet the false teachers have twisted it to mean that God justifies one when they are STILL IN REBELLION and that future rebellion is forgiven in advance.

Skinski, you're a Pelagian (among other heresies).
no need for Christ to die.
man just needed more time to get the message and clean up his act.

Why misrepresent my position. If you were an honest person you would be critical of what I actually say, not pretend I say something else and then be critical of that.

No need for Christ to die? When have I ever claimed such a thing? Quote me please.

While I do object to Penal Substitution for it teaches that the wrath of God must be poured out somewhere and thus treats Jesus as a whipping boy. Due then to the wrath being placated ongoing sin is no longer and issue and thus the death of Christ actually is a cloak for ongoing iniquity. I decry that doctrine as pure heresy.

Yet such a denial is not the same as teaching that Jesus did not need to die. It is only via the blood of Jesus that our hearts are cleansed of the defilement wrought by our past rebellion (Heb 9:14, 2Pet 1:9). We die WITH CHRIST and in so doing we die to sin (thus we are set free from bondage) and raised up to newness of life IN Him.

So why do you lie and imply I teach that Jesus did not need to die? Why Zone do you do that?

Why do you create this FICTION of "man just needed more time to get the message and clean up his act."

nuthin to say to you really.

Strawman fictions are not "nuthin." You mean you have nothing SUBSTANTIAL to say to me. All you can do is belittle my position with fictions and names.

That is pretty weak. I remember when you first read my posts on this board that you were all about how you were going to expose people like me and that you had passed all this information onto some friend of yours who was going to do a thorough expose. What happened to that?

I dare say you cannot seemingly expose me without resorting to deceptions in that you have to falsify my position by attributing teachings and doctrines to me that I do not hold.

bye now

Instead of a willingness to actually discuss things (or defend your misuse of Scripture) you just call me a name and basically dismiss everything on that basis.

What is a Pelagian? I would like to see you define it. It is very easy to succumb to the use of ad-hominem in order to bypass specific issues which are brought up.

 

[notuptome]

What is a Pelagian? I would like to see you define it. It is very easy to succumb to the use of ad-hominem in order to bypass specific issues which are brought up.

A relative to the albatross. Known by it's fishy aroma.

For the cause of Christ
Roger