-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L
That is not an assumption read the meaning of the word rest in that verse.
H7673
שׁבת
shâbath
shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
Do a word study on rest and put all the verses together like a jigsaw puzzle to get the whole picture
H7673
שׁבת
shâbath
shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
Do a word study on rest and put all the verses together like a jigsaw puzzle to get the whole picture
Ignorance can be fixed, so here goes...
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Here is the subject at hand, who can serve in the Priesthood...
Num 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.
Num 18:2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness.
Num 18:3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die.
Num 18:4 And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.
The Priesthood was committed to the tribe of Levi and specifically the sons of Aaron. Priesthood had to do with DNA, if you were not a son fo Aaron, you could not serve in the Priesthood. This explains the following verses...
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Made after a fleshly (carnal means fleshly) commandment, the commandment that only those sons of Aaron could be Priests. This is why it is mentioned that Christ came form Judah, by DNA He was disqualified from being a Levitical Priest. So the Law had to change to allow Christ to be High Priest because Christ will not violate His Law. He won't violate the seemingly most insignificant point of His Law. After all, He is the one who gave the Law and then said...
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
He has not returned, He has not ruled for 1000 years and the GWTJ has not occured and New Jerusalem has not come down out of heaven. All is not fulfilled.
What was changed are the conditions concerning who can be a Priest. Now, if that law were not changed, I could not fulfill these scriptures...
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
And unless you are of the tirbe of Levi, neither could you.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Here is the subject at hand, who can serve in the Priesthood...
Num 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.
Num 18:2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness.
Num 18:3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die.
Num 18:4 And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.
The Priesthood was committed to the tribe of Levi and specifically the sons of Aaron. Priesthood had to do with DNA, if you were not a son fo Aaron, you could not serve in the Priesthood. This explains the following verses...
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Made after a fleshly (carnal means fleshly) commandment, the commandment that only those sons of Aaron could be Priests. This is why it is mentioned that Christ came form Judah, by DNA He was disqualified from being a Levitical Priest. So the Law had to change to allow Christ to be High Priest because Christ will not violate His Law. He won't violate the seemingly most insignificant point of His Law. After all, He is the one who gave the Law and then said...
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
He has not returned, He has not ruled for 1000 years and the GWTJ has not occured and New Jerusalem has not come down out of heaven. All is not fulfilled.
What was changed are the conditions concerning who can be a Priest. Now, if that law were not changed, I could not fulfill these scriptures...
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
And unless you are of the tirbe of Levi, neither could you.
E
Look at it this way.
According to scripture. Those of TRUE faith, thus those who have been born again into Gods family, will obay Gods commands.
According to some. Some must obey Gods commands, or God will not bore them into his family, or kick them out of his family.
We see two different approaches. ! is by the law of faith and Love. The other by the law of obeying or else..Although they claim it is out of love, they are decieving themselves.
E
So do I. Thats not what differs us, what differs us is the flesh. The flesh remains, and we must daily fight the flesh. Until the flesh is completely removed. we still will struggle with sin.
That passage concerns Isreal. God will give them a heart of repentance. They will stop their sin of going against God, following their idols etc etc (and same for us) it never says they (or we) will be sinless.
That passage concerns Isreal. God will give them a heart of repentance. They will stop their sin of going against God, following their idols etc etc (and same for us) it never says they (or we) will be sinless.
A
reading all of Exodus 16, people can see how the MANNA from Heaven is a symbolic foreshadowing of Christ who is the Bread of Life, which descended from Heaven.
Yet they are unable to make the connection that the Sabbath foreshadows:
Revelation 21
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
Yet they are unable to make the connection that the Sabbath foreshadows:
Revelation 21
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
If everyone here believes the Word, and they believe Paul's writings are from Yahweh, God, then everyone here is wasting time and energy typing and retyping arguments for and against. Others have posted so many times the teaching of the freedom we now have under grace, especially the freedom to show mercy. Our Father does prefer mercy and not sacrifice. Therefore, why upset ourselves when another in the family has a clear conscience in the sight of the Father in his individual actions. After all, all we need to know indeed is Yeshua crucifed for our sins. If everyone here is working more to be a doctor of the law or a doctor of grace, he is missing out on a lot of fellowship.
Do you feel confident following a specified manner of honoring the Father, wonderful, let no man tell you you are living in sin if you have a clear conscience in the sight of Yahweh, God. The same holds true for those who do not follow the same yet have a clear conscience. We all have a speck or even two in our eyes, so let us concern ourselves with our own eyewash.
Do you feel confident following a specified manner of honoring the Father, wonderful, let no man tell you you are living in sin if you have a clear conscience in the sight of Yahweh, God. The same holds true for those who do not follow the same yet have a clear conscience. We all have a speck or even two in our eyes, so let us concern ourselves with our own eyewash.
PS, Ariel, I think I misunderstood some of your intent previously. Please forgive me for that. I really do not like to argue about the law, either way. My basic approach to the law is to study it for the wisdom and prophecy found in it. Of course I like to believe my new nature has me following the great laws as best possible for any flesh to attain, while Yeshua is perfecting me along the way. None will be perfect until His day of course, but we are being perfected. I know, because He said so.
A
Hebrews 7
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
this shows that some of God's former commandments were annulled and no longer kept.
For example the Aaron priesthood, the commandment to circumcise all males, the commandment to make sin sacrifices of animals, etc.
no one is going to agrue (I hope) that this is not the case.
Just because God changes His commandments and His covenant does NOT mean that God changes WHO HE IS, which is what those verses about the never changing God mean.
God gave each nation on the world before Christ different rules and commandments. He allowed them to grope for Him, but Paul declares the following:
Acts 17
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: [SUP]24 [/SUP]“God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And He has made from one blood[SUP][c][/SUP] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, [SUP]27 [/SUP]so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; [SUP]28 [/SUP]for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ [SUP]29 [/SUP]Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, [SUP]31 [/SUP]because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
this shows that some of God's former commandments were annulled and no longer kept.
For example the Aaron priesthood, the commandment to circumcise all males, the commandment to make sin sacrifices of animals, etc.
no one is going to agrue (I hope) that this is not the case.
Just because God changes His commandments and His covenant does NOT mean that God changes WHO HE IS, which is what those verses about the never changing God mean.
God gave each nation on the world before Christ different rules and commandments. He allowed them to grope for Him, but Paul declares the following:
Acts 17
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: [SUP]24 [/SUP]“God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And He has made from one blood[SUP][c][/SUP] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, [SUP]27 [/SUP]so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; [SUP]28 [/SUP]for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ [SUP]29 [/SUP]Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, [SUP]31 [/SUP]because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
A
the quote and your statement has little bearing in the conversation because the topic under discussion is not:
Do you believe Jesus words?
but
did Jesus fulfill the Sabbath like He fulfill the shadow cast by the Manna in Heaven.
"till all be fulfilled."
Can you find rest in Christ or do you still keep the laws of the OT concerning the Sabbath about not working, carrying a burden, leaving your dwelling place, not boiling water, ANIMAL Sacrifices, etc?
Do you believe Jesus words?
but
did Jesus fulfill the Sabbath like He fulfill the shadow cast by the Manna in Heaven.
"till all be fulfilled."
Can you find rest in Christ or do you still keep the laws of the OT concerning the Sabbath about not working, carrying a burden, leaving your dwelling place, not boiling water, ANIMAL Sacrifices, etc?
E
Who was it that said if you keep one, your bound to keep them all?
Why did he say this? Because if we think one saves us, We must think it all saves us, Because we are not under grace, we are under law. Unfortunately for us, Only one man fulfilled the law (no sin) and that is Christ. Thus keeping these rules and regulation will not save us.
Why did he say this? Because if we think one saves us, We must think it all saves us, Because we are not under grace, we are under law. Unfortunately for us, Only one man fulfilled the law (no sin) and that is Christ. Thus keeping these rules and regulation will not save us.