Keep The Commandments

Grandpa · Jun 28, 2013

It has everything to do with the lack of understanding shared. I just showed you that you don't obey the Father by your flesh, you just think you do. I actually love obedience to the Father. I just don't care for pretending. I would rather walk in the light, for real.

Is this where your faith is lacking? You don't believe He has completed the work for your Salvation? There is more you must add to it?

Those saved by Christ do not turn away from Him and go back to the Law, like a dog to its own vomit.

Those saved by Christ know that all the Power in Heaven and Earth is held by Him. He Saves, He Blesses, He Provides. Without Him we can do nothing.

You are deliberately disobedient because you know that you are to walk in the Spirit and yet you insist on walking in the flesh. That is deliberate disobedience. To know something and not do it.

Reading and learning of the Old Testament is supposed to bring you to Christ. When you come to Christ He gives you the Holy Spirit. You are supposed to walk in that. Not in the power of your own flesh the way the jews of the OT did.

You choose disobedience. You choose to be a transgressor. You choose to behold sin.

That's not freedom. That's masochism.

[/QUOTE]

If you had any understanding whatsoever you would know that I am showing what true obedience is.

If you look back to the Law you are not being obedient. You can't be. Only by beholding the Lord Jesus can we be obedient. You have to choose.

The Law, which is a mirror, that shows you your selfishness and sin.

Or the Lord Jesus Christ who shows you love, joy, peace, righteousness, longsuffering, forgiveness... etc.

There is one way. Period. That way is the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing need be added to that.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 28, 2013

Cobus said:

I love ya too much myself to let you keep thinking this.

If this is true, We earn salvation. Thus salvation is not of grace, But of works. And we can boast, or be proud, because we take credit for our own salvation.

God does not want us to get right first, he knows we can.t He wants us to be born of him Then HE gives US THE POWER to become sons of God.

you have it backwards my friend

JaumeJ · Jun 28, 2013

You have judged, you have convicted,. but you cannot convey any sentence because you do not know what you are saying.
Thank you for the condemnation, but I am saved by the Blood of Yeshua..........You are the one teaching disobedience in the guise of living under grace.........It is very sad that the grace Yeshua gives does not move some to obedience, and that is plain sharing from understanding the Word.........if you want I could take any number of lines from the holy scriptures to support what I am saying, but then anyone can do that.
You do it all of the time, out of context of course, and without understanding. You say this about me, and I say it to you. Frankly, I could never be in any theology that teaches what you teach, grace as an excuse for license.

Grandpa said:

If you had any understanding whatsoever you would know that I am showing what true obedience is.

If you look back to the Law you are not being obedient. You can't be. Only by beholding the Lord Jesus can we be obedient. You have to choose.

The Law, which is a mirror, that shows you your selfishness and sin.

Or the Lord Jesus Christ who shows you love, joy, peace, righteousness, longsuffering, forgiveness... etc.

There is one way. Period. That way is the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing need be added to that.[/QUOTE]

JaumeJ · Jun 28, 2013

Please read what is taught by Jesus (your name from the Greek) teaches on the law:
Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Mat 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teachthem,the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Paul teaches, in Romans that we now are under the law of faith, proceeding to say that we do not destroy the law, rather we establish the law.

I have never said anyone who is under grace is under the law, for that is impossible for any man, as it was given to show the futility of any man being perfect, but the law of faith is by no means the negation of our Father's desire for our obedience. Even in the Old Testament the Father talks of obedience being preferable to sacrifice of beasts. Of course no one who is afraid of the law know Yeshua, because Yeshua takes away all fear in the grace He affords all who actually believe Him.

The master teaches all who would be great in the Kingdom would have not diminished any of the laws in this age. Again, for those who do not understand, this refers to the laws that fall under the two great laws of love, not ceremonial, sacrificial, geographical or clean laws. Why this must be repeated to brethren who have received the Holy Spirit as I have is a mystery.

Ariel82 · Jun 28, 2013

Grandpa said:

That is the description for sabbath.

Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

That's how its accomplished.

yeah cuz "rest" = "sabbath" right?

Ariel82 · Jun 28, 2013

john832 said:

no it doesn't...

Hebrews 4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’”[SUP][b][/SUP]

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; [SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]5 [/SUP]and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, [SUP]7 [/SUP]again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”[SUP][e][/SUP]

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. [SUP]9 [/SUP]There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

the rest referred to in verse 9 is Heaven or more precisely the New Jerusalem revealed in Revelation 21 which is what the shadows are all about. The TRUE Rest or "sabbath" is found when God wipes away every tear.

now lets read verse 3 and see which one makes more sense:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My Sabbath (kept on the seventh day),’”[SUP][b][/SUP]

or...

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest (in Mount Zion and the Heavenly Jerusalem that will come down on Earth in Rev. 21) ,’”[SUP][b][/SUP]

eternally-gratefull · Jun 28, 2013

Ariel82 said:

God promised Israel if they went into their land, did his commands, and worshiped him, he would give them rest.

They would have rain, Plentiful crops, They would not have to worry about their enemies etc etc, This is the rest God promised they would not enter (instead they wandered for 40 years with no rest)

God promises us a sabbath, although different.

A rest from worry. As trust God. tribulation or distress will not affect us, as we trust God in ALL things.. There is no rest such as this..As Paul said, he considered all these things a momentary light affliction. Now that is living in Gods rest!

This is the rest God promises us.

As for Saturday, This is something God gave us from the time of Adam. A day of rest. We need it (it is for our benefit) Working or laboring 7 days is not good for us.. If we do not take it, We will suffer.. However, it is NOT the same rest as practiced in Israel which was very stringent and a symbol for God showing them (and us) what he would do for us through Christ. And the HS he gives us.

Shiloah · Jun 28, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

I've never gotten this at all. If your savior asks you to do something that's for your good as well as for others, how does that make doing what He asks a "performance enhancing drug?" So I'm not supposed to do what He asks? We already received our salvation through Christ's sacrifice, now we're simply serving the Lord that saved us by doing what He asked. It has nothing to do with earning anything. It's only about giving honor to our Lord and savior. It's the Holy Spirit that helps us keep those commandments. Well, yeah then. If you want to call that a performance enhancing drug, so be it. Haha. If the Holy Spirit's that drug, then that's the one performance enhancing drug I want! Cause that one's good for me as well as everyone else! What about "if you love Me, keep My commandments do you not get?"

eternally-gratefull · Jun 28, 2013

Shiloah said:

I've never gotten this at all. If your savior asks you to do something that's for your good as well as for others, how does that make doing what He asks a "performance enhancing drug?" So I'm not supposed to do what He asks? We already received our salvation through Christ's sacrifice, now we're simply serving the Lord that saved us by doing what He asked. It has nothing to do with earning anything. It's only about giving honor to our Lord and savior. It's the Holy Spirit that helps us keep those commandments. Well, yeah then. If you want to call that a performance enhancing drug, so be it. Haha. Then that's one performance enhancing drug I want! Cause that one's good for me as well as everyone else! What about "if you love Me, keep My commandments do you not get?"

Unfortunately. Not everyone obeys for this reason. They are obeying so they will not lose salvation. Thus they are trying to earn something.

Shiloah · Jun 28, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

I'm sure what you say is true in the sense that God gave us all these things you mention. But where in scriptures does it say the sabbath commandment was done away with? Keeping sabbath is a blessing. It was given to us as a gift. The only scripture people use to combat this is where Paul says don't let people judge you regarding sabbaths and such. I read that as (especially given the time period Paul was in where everyone kept sabbath) don't be telling people they're doing something on the sabbath you don't like. They were always doing that to each other. Remember? Such as you could only walk so far on sabbath or the Pharisees would get after you. That's what he was talking about. He had to have been. Otherwise, he would have been contradicting what Christ said, that none of the laws would pass away unless they be fulfilled. Paul and the other disciples still went to the temple on sabbath. They met together on Sunday, true. But it's never said that they moved the sabbath to Sunday. They wouldn't have had the authority to change one of God's laws.

Shiloah · Jun 28, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

Well isn't that true of striving to do good in any way? That people think they can earn salvation by living good lives? That doesn't mean doing good isn't a good thing to do. It just means you can't save yourself that way because everyone has sinned and come short of the glory of God. We all need a savior.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 28, 2013

Shiloah said:

1. They went to the tabernackles on saterday because thats where the jews were, and they wanted to bring them the gospel. it had nothing to do with saterday

2. Sabbath was never meant for a day we meet in Church, it is a day of rest. People changed the meaning to mean this, just another legalistic task.
in fact. we should not meet on saturday, because one must WORK to make it to church.I remember the stress of waking up and getting ready and trying to make it on time as I was growing up. That is not rest! Even today, There are some sundays I would just like to sleep in. Thank God for Saturday Rest!!
Maybe this is why they met on Sundays??

3. Sabaath rest is for us all. those of us who have tasted this every day of the week understand what this means.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 28, 2013

Shiloah said:

the problem is. Doing good to earn something is not good. In fact, If we are doing it for just this, we are doing it for benefit of self and not others. This is actually a sin.

This is why non believers can do the law.. But why these good acts are considered bloody rags by God. because the world does these good things for self. Just like those trying to earn salvation. They claim we judge them for doing good. In God's eyes, they are not even doing good. It is God who judges them, Not us!

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jun 28, 2013

Shiloah said:

If keeping the 10 commandments doesn't have anything to do with earning anything, then they are irrelevant.

I think there's too much equivocation going on regarding the 10 commandments and the commandments of Christ. Christ had very little to say about the law of Moses, even to the point of calling it 'your law' (not his law) when addressing the pharisees. Yet Christ did have many other things to say, that rightfully should be considered his commandments, e.g., 'you have heard it said..., but I say to you...'

Laodicea · Jun 28, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

And by resting in the new life will we keep or break the law of God? Here are some texts to consider
Romans 7:14 KJV
(14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:6 KJV
(6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

If you are looking at the law as 'Thou shalt not' then you are looking at the letter of the law. To look at the law as we should we need to see the spirit of the law.

The Law says
Exodus 20:4-5 KJV
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Then there is a text which says this
Deuteronomy 6:5 KJV
(5) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

If we love the Lord with all our heart, soul and mind then we will fulfill this commandment. So it is not just about 'Thou shalt not' but loving God so we keep His law

Grandpa · Jun 28, 2013

JaumeJ said:

I don't condemn you. You condemn yourself by going back to the Law. I just point out to you that's what you are doing.

JaumeJ said:

That's what all the judaizing legalists say... You can't have grace because you are not being condemned by the law... Duh... That's what grace is.

You don't believe in grace. You don't understand it. That's what I have been showing you all along.

You understand law. But you don't understand that it is to bring us to Christ. And then we aren't under it any longer. We are no longer transgressors after we have come to Christ.

Grandpa · Jun 28, 2013

Ariel82 said:

If the Lord Jesus says He is the One who give us rest then this must be the true rest. Anything that men have come up with in the OT is probably shadow, wouldn't you say? A type of Sabbath...

But, yeah...

Cobus · Jun 28, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

Nope no credit to any person. How can a person die off the old man if it is not the Holy Spirit that SHOWS (convince, reproof or convict) the person of sin. And not only sin, but of righteousness and judgement as well.... So you see EG even our repentance (dieing off the old man) is LED by the Holy Spirit... God!

The leading of the Spirit is the FAITH! Grace is the GIVING of the Spirit to LEAD us, and the Faith will have us follow the LEAD. And HE LEADSS US TO A SPIRITUAL DEATH.... WE Follow but even the FOLLOW is from God, it is called OBEDIENCE... and Paul says clearly in Romans 1,.... they received apostleship and obedience to the faith from GOD.

So I believe like you, there is NO GOOD in any man, but the good in ALL PERFECT PEOPLE, is GOD, not the man.

EG, God does not MODIFY, or re-built us, HE RE-CREATE us. All God's children is not a modification to the old, it is a COMPLETE new creature. behold EG, EVERYTHING is NEW. EG, it is a NEW JESUS! Not a NEW COBUS. All the Cobus's will sin, but NONE of the JESUS's will sin. And it is from ALL COBUS, to ALL GOD!

There is NO CREDIT to man, in the NEW creation, but there is also no SHAME TO GOD in the NEW Creature. The one was a sinner, the other God in man. Only God's people can confess Jesus has come in the flesh.... THEIR FLESH... and they confess it with a PERFECT, HOLY, GODLY LIFE.... WELL PLEASING to God.

EG, in the doctrine I believe their is NO GOOD IN ME, if GOD IS NOT IN ME... and IF GOD IS IN ME, THEIR IS NO BAD IN ME. That is what the Bible teach. Only God decides who HE WANT TO BE IN! I have NO SAY in the matter. If we could choose, there would have been NO GOOD on earth. Fortunately God says... I have chosen YOU, you did not choose me... And God also say... Those I foreknew, them I called and them I glorified.

God glorifies only ONE way... He fills a person with HIS SPIRIT... And a person filled with God's Spirit is filled with GOD! If you try that person, ALL you will find is GOD! That person would be so JESUS-LIKE, that you will find NOT ONE difference. Why? Becasue God is the SAME today and forever.

Only the glorified people can confess that JESUS has come in their flesh, and if tried as Jesus says we should try the spirits, we will find ONLY JESUS in them. Filled with God's Spirit means filled with GOD! Only people that died off the old man, CAN receive this Spirit. God does not share a vessel (flesh) with ANY OTHER SPIRIT. Paul says it so good.... He says, I was crucified with Christ, and Jesus now lives in me. When God gives NEW LIFE to the spirit of any person, it is a HOLY LIFE. And the NEW life is one that GOD PLANNED for that person. EG, that life honors ONLY GOD, because HE LIVES IT IN US. God says, And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

EG no person can do what is pleasing in God's sight WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HIM. The key is to GET THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU... And that ONLY GOD CAN GIVE... So if the grace of God saves us from sin, how can the grace stop there? The grace HAS TO INCLUDE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Remember this.... God does not change the old man, HE RECREATES A NEW MAN!!!! But the old has to PASS. And even the PASSING of the old man is part of God's GRACE.

JaumeJ · Jun 29, 2013

This does not respond to the continuation, 604.........Which demonstrates I do not go back to the law. You are a word and sentence twister, this is for certain. I cannot think otherwise.[QUOTE=Grandpa;1093736]

I don't condemn you. You condemn yourself by going back to the Law. I just point out to you that's what you are doing.

That's what all the judaizing legalists say... You can't have grace because you are not being condemned by the law... Duh... That's what grace is.

You don't believe in grace. You don't understand it. That's what I have been showing you all along.

You understand law. But you don't understand that it is to bring us to Christ. And then we aren't under it any longer. We are no longer transgressors after we have come to Christ.[/QUOTE]

psychomom · Jun 29, 2013

WomanLovesTX said:

Deu 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Deu 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his (God's) statutes, and his (God's)commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deu 4:44 And this is the law which Moses set before the children of Israel:

By the time the New Testament writers were writing of "Moses Law" they had diluted the importance that they were God's laws, commandments, statues, ordinances, etc. Just leave it to religious people to delute the importance of God's Words through his mitzvah, Torah, statues, ordinances, commandments, laws, etc.

I wanted to give you an opportunity to clarify this statement...

are you saying the NT was not written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

Keep The Commandments

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