Is Hell a Physical Place?

[Michael50]

Thank you Michael. Forgive me. I become frustrated with this subject and often find I must withdraw so I don't get angry and then say things I later regret. The reasoning that supports the eternal never-ending torment concept, and yes, you might as well say eternal torture chamber concept to me is so impossibly bizarre and not scriptural, and at the very worst, suggestive of an unjust God. What's so strange is that I feel the belief that there will be a punishment that involves being rightly judged and thrown into hellfire that will consume..... the wicked.... and they will be gone.... ashes beneath our feet... makes such perfect sense! And I repeat the scriptures that show this so many times, yet people totally ignore, or don't see the meaning, or something! I don't know! See, I get so frustrated. It's nice when others who share my belief come in and give a much better explanation than I do and don't get frustrated in the process. Hahaha!!

The belief of an eternal torture chamber, where the wicked are kept alive and tortured for eternity is the result of believing Satan's first lie to Eve:

"Ye shall not surely die"

Once Satan deceived men into believing the soul is immortal, it was rather easy to get them to believe that God also has an Eternal Torture Chamber where He houses and punishes our loved ones that rejected God (many will have loved ones that will not be saved). For this reason,, many have turned away from God. Satan is sly and cares not why we reject God, just that we do!

 

[RickShafer]

Oh brother.
Jesus made up a name to a beggar and a rich man with four brothers.
No other parable in the Bible has names.
Jesus could not lie - He had to fulfill all righteousness.
If it was a parable he wouldn't have named the beggar!
He just would have said "there was a beggar".
Plus, He wouldn't have quoted Abraham (another REAL human)!
Honestly, the steps you take to hold your views contradict the character of Christ.

 

[Shiloah]

Oh brother.
Jesus made up a name to a beggar and a rich man with four brothers.
No other parable in the Bible has names.
Jesus could not lie - He had to fulfill all righteousness.
If it was a parable he wouldn't have named the beggar!
He just would have said "there was a beggar".
Plus, He wouldn't have quoted Abraham (another REAL human)!
Honestly, the steps you take to hold your views contradict the character of Christ.

An eternal torture chamber contradicts the character of Christ who came to earth, suffered horribly and died in order that we could be saved. He said He didn't come to condemn, that He came to save the world.

You use the excuse that because Christ used a name in one parable and no others, where nowhere in scriptures does it say names are never used in parables, and you accuse us of taking ridiculous steps to contradict Christ's character, when you claim that naming a character in a parable is proof enough to contradict Christ's character? Boy! You sure want to believe in that eternal torture chamber concept!

 

[Michael50]

Good grief.
"And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night,
who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name." Rev. 14:11

Please,,, go outside and gather some paper and sticks. Light them on fire and watch the smoke rise up into the atmosphere.

Then read Psalm 37:20

"But the wicked shall perish; and the enemies of the Lord...shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away." Tell me,, doesn't that happen to the smoke of what you are burning up? And what is left on the earth???? Ashes! Malachi 4:3 says "ashes". Ezekiel 28:18 says "ashes".

The eternal punishment is,,, eternal death.. At which there will be no relief from. The consequences will be eternal.

 

[RickShafer]

No. I know Jesus couldn't lie.
- Or else He couldn't save.
"And ABRAHAM said".......

(Besides Revelations 14:11, which completely knocks your belief in short suffering akilter)

 

[Shiloah]

No. I know Jesus couldn't lie.
- Or else He couldn't save.
"And ABRAHAM said".......

(Besides Revelations 14:11, which completely knocks your belief in short suffering akilter)

This is a qualification you yourself have created in your mind, that Jesus would not have used names in a parable. There is nowhere in scriptures that say that it can't be a parable if anyone is named in that parable. As for Christ supposedly lying when using names in a parable, did you even read Michael's former post?

Judges 9:8-15

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]One day the trees went out to anoint a king for themselves. They said to the olive tree, ‘Be our king.’
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“But the olive tree answered, ‘Should I give up my oil, by which both gods and humans are honored, to hold sway over the trees?’
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Next, the trees said to the fig tree, ‘Come and be our king.’
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“But the fig tree replied, ‘Should I give up my fruit, so good and sweet, to hold sway over the trees?’
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“Then the trees said to the vine, ‘Come and be our king.’
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“But the vine answered, ‘Should I give up my wine, which cheers both gods and humans, to hold sway over the trees?’
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Finally all the trees said to the thornbush, ‘Come and be our king.’
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“The thornbush said to the trees, ‘If you really want to anoint me king over you, come and take refuge in my shade; but if not, then let fire come out of the thornbush and consume the cedars of Lebanon!’

This is a parable in the Old Testament. Did God lie through a prophet when He revealed this parable to him? All these trees and bushes having this heavy conversation is to be taken literally?

 

[sunshinelovin1700]

An eternal torture chamber contradicts the character of Christ who came to earth, suffered horribly and died in order that we could be saved. He said He didn't come to condemn, that He came to save the world.

You use the excuse that because Christ used a name in one parable and no others, where nowhere in scriptures does it say names are never used in parables, and you accuse us of taking ridiculous steps to contradict Christ's character, when you claim that naming a character in a parable is proof enough to contradict Christ's character? Boy! You sure want to believe in that eternal torture chamber concept!

It's hard for some to be un-doctrinated to what they've been told their whole life----that our loving Father would actually torture someone endlessly in hell fire. I believe its a gross misrepresentation of our loving God. He is just. He's not a cruel tyrant.

 

[RickShafer]

The trees was an allegory obvious, no names attached.
Spoken as a prophetic utterance in types and shadows.
No names, no actual people.
Abraham was an actual human being, and a living soul.
To say Jesus said Abraham said something he didn't is simply accusing Him of lying.

 

[RickShafer]

It's hard for some to be un-doctrinated to what they've been told their whole life----that our loving Father would actually torture someone endlessly in hell fire. I believe its a gross misrepresentation of our loving God. He is just. He's not a cruel tyrant.

Such as murdering innocents.
Such as torturing children.
Such as carrying out grusome experiments.
According to you, all that is covered by a short dip in the flames.
- Your problem is you really don't understand justice.
In the final analysis, you really don't understand true evil.
- And the necessity of a loving creator to avenge it.
- - That's too bad.

 

[sunshinelovin1700]

Such as murdering innocents.
Such as torturing children.
Such as carrying out grusome experiments.
According to you, all that is covered by a short dip in the flames.
- Your problem is you really don't understand justice.
In the final analysis, you really don't understand true evil.
- And the necessity of a loving creator to avenge it.
- - That's too bad.

I don't think it will be a quick out. I never said that please don't put words in to my post. I don't believe it will last for eternity either. The saved are given eternal life not the wicked.

 

[damombomb]

It's hard for some to be un-doctrinated to what they've been told their whole life----that our loving Father would actually torture someone endlessly in hell fire. I believe its a gross misrepresentation of our loving God. He is just. He's not a cruel tyrant.

He flooded the entire planet. He wiped out Sodom and Gamorrah. He put the angels who left their first estate in chains of darkness till judgement day.He does what he pleases as far as disobedience. It is called wrath of God
Fear God and live, the beginning of wisdom

 

[Shiloah]

From Post #26...maybe you just have somewhat more to learn on this subject...love!

You'll learn some more if you look at the study in the link I post with an open mind!

I take the Bible in it's entirety. By doing so, I don't ignore these verses.

Psalm 37:9,10,20,28,38:
For evildoers shall be cut off but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be; yea, thou shalt diligently consider this place,and it shall not be. But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

People do not go immediately to “heaven” or “hell” after they die. Jesus was very clear in his teaching, when people die they remain in the grave until they are resurrected. Jesus Christ spoke of two resurrections, and he was aware of the differences in the first and second resurrections.

The future for those who do not accept God’s loving provision is not to burn forever in eternal to torment in hell, but to perish. The wicked will perish and be no more. They shall cease to exist, and their destruction will be complete.

By the time of the second resurrection, everyone who has ever lived will be alive. The just will continue to live forever with God, but the unjust will not (live forever by inference).

11
The resurrection of the unjust is only temporary for they shall meet a second and final death. The just, “he that overcometh,” will not be affected by the second death.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just. Those who are resurrected at that time, the just ones, will live forever and not be subject to the second death.

Revelation 20:5,6:But the rest of the dead [the unjust who were not in the first resurrection] lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The rest of the dead are part of the second resurrection, when the unjust are temporarily made alive.
They are judged, and those whose names are not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire and consumed of the second death.

Revelation 20:14,15:
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:7,8:
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and
sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and

brimstone: which is the second death.

What happens in the second death? Life is terminated again. There is no consciousness, and there is no hope of resurrection. Therefore these people will no longer exist. Remember Psalm 37 said of the wicked, that “they shall not be.” This is similar to what awaits the adversary. When describing the annihilation of our adversary, the devil, in the lake of fire, the prophet Ezekiel says “and never shalt thou be any more." (This does NOT say they'll go into eternal torment, if you'll notice).

13
This final annihilation of the adversary is what will happen to the unjust also when they are cast into the lake of fire.

Isaiah speaks of this second death of the ungodly of which there is no hope of resurrection or reward.
Isaiah 26:14:The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise; Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And You have wiped out all remembrance of them.

Solomon also speaks of the termination of the name and reputation of the wicked.

Proverbs 10:7:

The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.

The second death will terminate life forever for those for whom the justice of God demands it. They will not be consciously tormented and suffer forever. They will simply be no more. The memory of them shall perish, and they will no longer cause hurt to God’s people.

Jeremiah speaks not of conscious torment and suffering but rather of perpetual sleep with no hope of
awaking.

Jeremiah 51:57: And I will make drunk her princes, and her wisemen, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the Lord of hosts.

Paul also describes the perpetuity of the second death and the oblivion of the wicked as destruction and separation from the presence of God.

II Thessalonians 1:9:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction [ruin, death] from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

With the second death the truths of Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 6 will be established.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun.

After the second death there is no hope of resurrection and reward. After the second death not only
will the faculty of memory be forgotten, but the actual memory of their existence will be blotted out. They will cause no more hurt and pain to God’s elect for all these former things will be done away.


This is only half the info. Anyone read it? The other half is in this link.

http://www.cffm.org/download/ihapfet.pdf












http://www.cffm.org/download/ihapfet.pdf

 

[Shiloah]

Actually, what's above only involves 1/3 of the article. The article addresses the original meaning of the Greek words used that were translated into the word eternal and everlasting. There's a full chapter on that. Then there's a chapter addressing the parable of Lazarus. It's a excellent article that explains beautifully this line of reasoning.

Here's the link once more, though this time, it's actually linked. lol

http://www.cffm.org/download/ihapfet.pdf

 

[DiscipleDave]

Is hell a physical place, where one literally burns for all eternity, or is that just an allegory for spiritual torment? What do you think hell is?


Note: I am just curious what views people have about hell; I am not promoting any particular ideology. Discuss your views freely, but please, do not criticize others and their views (unless their views are way out there).



Grace and Peace!

Hell is a very physical place, it is a place that separates the Kingdom people of Heaven, from the people who are not Kingdom people.
The whole universe is the Kingdom of Heaven, where satan and his followers will be held, is not a part of that Kingdom, that separation is called Hell, it is not yet created, but will be at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ on the Earth, when satan and all those that obey his ways, will be cast into, that is to say separated from the kingdom of Heaven. in this place there is no love, but full of hate, there is no joy, but extreme depression, there is no health, but sickness. There is not pleasure, but pain. Oh if this generation would wake up and open their eyes, for they know not that is where they are heading if they do not change their wicked ways. If this generation would think about what Hell would be like, they would try a whole lot harder to get rid of that sin that so easily besets them.
My advise is this. There are two types of people in the world, those who are going to Heaven and those who are not. It seems to me, that a person would read the Bible every single day and fight sinning as to not take any chances whatsoever to miss going to Heaven. it seems to me, they would read the Bible every day, go to Bible studies, go to church, get new friends that are Christian, watch religious programs, hate satan and all that he stands for, despise sin, hate sin, abhor sin, Fight all his temptations, do everything in their power to walk that straight, narrow, difficult path that leads to life everlasting. Is it not better to give up your life NOW, for a mere 80 years, to have eternity forever in Heaven. Start living to please God, and stop living to please SELF.

The Kingdom of Heaven are looking for those who love others, the Kingdom of Heaven will reject all those that love self.

^i^

 

[sunshinelovin1700]

He flooded the entire planet. He wiped out Sodom and Gamorrah. He put the angels who left their first estate in chains of darkness till judgement day.He does what he pleases as far as disobedience. It is called wrath of God
Fear God and live, the beginning of wisdom

Hi, I sure hope you are not implying that I don't fear God? Because I have a great fear of any correction I recieve from my heavenly Father. Yes He destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah and flooded the planet drowning all in process except Noah. If my child disobeys there will be punishment and they will fear that punishment. Scripture says

• "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).
• John 3:16
  "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Don't miss God's love here. I had a puppy several years back, was very financially unstable so couldn't afford poor things medicine, she contracted parvo, ......I shot her in the head and put her out of her misery.... truth please don't judge.
I did it because she was suffering I was very sad it kills me to still think of it. God loves too even the lost sinner that never repented, sinners too have a disease, their sin of course their unbelief, but they reject the medicine the blood of Jesus, God will put them out of their misery because He loves them but it does sadden Him. He has wrath because he loves. This is my belief I am sorry if you disagree. God bless you.

 

[Shiloah]

Hi, I sure hope you are not implying that I don't fear God? Because I have a great fear of any correction I recieve from my heavenly Father. Yes He destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah and flooded the planet drowning all in process except Noah. If my child disobeys there will be punishment and they will fear that punishment. Scripture says

• "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).
• John 3:16
  "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Don't miss God's love here. I had a puppy several years back, was very financially unstable so couldn't afford poor things medicine, she contracted parvo, ......I shot her in the head and put her out of her misery.... truth please don't judge.
I did it because she was suffering I was very sad it kills me to still think of it. God loves too even the lost sinner that never repented, sinners too have a disease, their sin of course their unbelief, but they reject the medicine the blood of Jesus, God will put them out of their misery because He loves them but it does sadden Him. He has wrath because he loves. This is my belief I am sorry if you disagree. God bless you.

Well my greatest fear in all this world is that I might lose HIM.

I'm so sorry about your experience with your puppy. I know what you're saying though. Exactly.

 

[Shiloah]

Hell is a very physical place, it is a place that separates the Kingdom people of Heaven, from the people who are not Kingdom people.
The whole universe is the Kingdom of Heaven, where satan and his followers will be held, is not a part of that Kingdom, that separation is called Hell, it is not yet created, but will be at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ on the Earth, when satan and all those that obey his ways, will be cast into, that is to say separated from the kingdom of Heaven. in this place there is no love, but full of hate, there is no joy, but extreme depression, there is no health, but sickness. There is not pleasure, but pain. Oh if this generation would wake up and open their eyes, for they know not that is where they are heading if they do not change their wicked ways. If this generation would think about what Hell would be like, they would try a whole lot harder to get rid of that sin that so easily besets them.
My advise is this. There are two types of people in the world, those who are going to Heaven and those who are not. It seems to me, that a person would read the Bible every single day and fight sinning as to not take any chances whatsoever to miss going to Heaven. it seems to me, they would read the Bible every day, go to Bible studies, go to church, get new friends that are Christian, watch religious programs, hate satan and all that he stands for, despise sin, hate sin, abhor sin, Fight all his temptations, do everything in their power to walk that straight, narrow, difficult path that leads to life everlasting. Is it not better to give up your life NOW, for a mere 80 years, to have eternity forever in Heaven. Start living to please God, and stop living to please SELF.

The Kingdom of Heaven are looking for those who love others, the Kingdom of Heaven will reject all those that love self.

^i^

This all sounds opinion based. Did you read through the discussion?

 

[jb]

I take the Bible in it's entirety. By doing so, I don't ignore these verses.

Psalm 37:9,10,20,28,38:
For evildoers shall be cut off but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be; yea, thou shalt diligently consider this place,and it shall not be. But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

People do not go immediately to “heaven” or “hell” after they die. Jesus was very clear in his teaching, when people die they remain in the grave until they are resurrected. Jesus Christ spoke of two resurrections, and he was aware of the differences in the first and second resurrections.

The future for those who do not accept God’s loving provision is not to burn forever in eternal to torment in hell, but to perish. The wicked will perish and be no more. They shall cease to exist, and their destruction will be complete.

By the time of the second resurrection, everyone who has ever lived will be alive. The just will continue to live forever with God, but the unjust will not (live forever by inference).

11
The resurrection of the unjust is only temporary for they shall meet a second and final death. The just, “he that overcometh,” will not be affected by the second death.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just. Those who are resurrected at that time, the just ones, will live forever and not be subject to the second death.

Revelation 20:5,6:But the rest of the dead [the unjust who were not in the first resurrection] lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The rest of the dead are part of the second resurrection, when the unjust are temporarily made alive.
They are judged, and those whose names are not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire and consumed of the second death.

Revelation 20:14,15:
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:7,8:
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and
sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and

brimstone: which is the second death.

What happens in the second death? Life is terminated again. There is no consciousness, and there is no hope of resurrection. Therefore these people will no longer exist. Remember Psalm 37 said of the wicked, that “they shall not be.” This is similar to what awaits the adversary. When describing the annihilation of our adversary, the devil, in the lake of fire, the prophet Ezekiel says “and never shalt thou be any more." (This does NOT say they'll go into eternal torment, if you'll notice).

13
This final annihilation of the adversary is what will happen to the unjust also when they are cast into the lake of fire.

Isaiah speaks of this second death of the ungodly of which there is no hope of resurrection or reward.
Isaiah 26:14:The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise; Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And You have wiped out all remembrance of them.

Solomon also speaks of the termination of the name and reputation of the wicked.

Proverbs 10:7:

The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.

The second death will terminate life forever for those for whom the justice of God demands it. They will not be consciously tormented and suffer forever. They will simply be no more. The memory of them shall perish, and they will no longer cause hurt to God’s people.

Jeremiah speaks not of conscious torment and suffering but rather of perpetual sleep with no hope of
awaking.

Jeremiah 51:57: And I will make drunk her princes, and her wisemen, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the Lord of hosts.

Paul also describes the perpetuity of the second death and the oblivion of the wicked as destruction and separation from the presence of God.

II Thessalonians 1:9:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction [ruin, death] from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

With the second death the truths of Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 6 will be established.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun.

After the second death there is no hope of resurrection and reward. After the second death not only
will the faculty of memory be forgotten, but the actual memory of their existence will be blotted out. They will cause no more hurt and pain to God’s elect for all these former things will be done away.


This is only half the info. Anyone read it? The other half is in this link.

http://www.cffm.org/download/ihapfet.pdf












http://www.cffm.org/download/ihapfet.pdf

Yawn.......

 

[Shiloah]

Yawn.......

Hahahaha!! I know that was awful long.....

 

[enoch1nine]

"Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; AND thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto Salvation against thee, and it be sin unto thee."