Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?
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Michael, it's not about "angles," it's about what you present not agreeing with the NT.
I do not believe witches have the power to summon the spirits of believers.
And I do not believe the spirit of Samuel would have agreed that she did, and that it was his body.
So, no, I do not believe it was really Samuel, but was an unclean spirit of an apparition.
I do not believe witches have the power to summon the spirits of believers.
And I do not believe the spirit of Samuel would have agreed that she did, and that it was his body.
So, no, I do not believe it was really Samuel, but was an unclean spirit of an apparition.
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not love the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess 2:9-12)
Elin,, one of us is wrong. Satan won't be able to decieve me thru personating the dead.
But, if a dead loved one appeared before you in an apparition,, you would believe it. So it's quite apparent that Satan could decieve you thru the agency of the dead. You already have the foundation that the dead are alive in some fashion. I reject it, totally.
Satan cannot decieve me thru the agency of the dead. It would not be possible. Jesus said that Satan would attempt to decieve the "elect" if that were possible. But it isn't,, because I believe the dead are just that, DEAD! They can't communicate with the living. So,, I know immedietly that when a dead person appears before me,, it is a Demon!
lol. Ok, it was just a vision. Does this mean they did not see literal things??
Daniel was given visions. did he not see literal things (even though they would not happen until later??)
wow. some people.
Yes, we will be raised (and given new bodies) does this mean we will not be in paradise with Jesus the moment we die?
You have not proven anything..
Daniel was given visions. did he not see literal things (even though they would not happen until later??)
wow. some people.
Yes, we will be raised (and given new bodies) does this mean we will not be in paradise with Jesus the moment we die?
You have not proven anything..
Same thing. It was a vision, it was not reality. If it was reality, there was no need of a vision.
Yes, our corruptible, weak and sinful bodies will be transformed into incorruptible, powerful, glorious bodies like the resurrection body of Christ, which will clothe our immortal spirits.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
What is the word for soul here?
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
A creature that breathes for a living is a soul. Where else is the word nephesh used...
S
The spirit and the soul are not separated in Scripture, only distinguished.
E
It wasn't Samuel. It was a demon.
You claim the dead are alive in a "spirit' form. So,, surely you must know where these "spirits" go when they leave the physical body,, yes/no?
You claim the dead are alive in a "spirit' form. So,, surely you must know where these "spirits" go when they leave the physical body,, yes/no?
lol.. Did you read the story?
1. The woman did not conjure samual up. He appeared and scared the woman.
2. It is obvious the woman was a fraud, for she said she actually saw things rising up (which she evidently never did before)
3. The one called samuel KNEW God had left saul and God was now sauls enemy. a demon probably would not have have known, or even said this, and even if they did, they would not reveal this to saul, they would want him to think he was still in gods grace so they could still use him
4. How can a demon know God has taken the kingdom from saul and given it to david? I guarantee no demon wanted david in power!
5. How could the demon know saul would die by the hand of the philistines? (for tomorrow you and your son shall be with me" (with who??)
Only God can prophesy, are are you now saying demons can know the future and it can come true?
wow.. how decieved we are!
God used this.. God brought samuel to saul, not the woman..
Very good! Now here is an example...
1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
It was a lying spirit. The tricky part about a deceiving or lying spirit is that they sometimes tell the truth. If they always lied, then no one would believe them.
1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
It was a lying spirit. The tricky part about a deceiving or lying spirit is that they sometimes tell the truth. If they always lied, then no one would believe them.
S
Let's talk about souls...
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
What is the word for soul here?
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
A creature that breathes for a living is a soul. Where else is the word nephesh used...
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
What is the word for soul here?
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
A creature that breathes for a living is a soul. Where else is the word nephesh used...
This shows that so many times, what we want to believe we believe regardless of any proof shown to us.
E
What did John see and record in the book of Revelation? Did all of that exist at that time? Or was he looking down through time at what would be at the end of the age? Was it a vision or not?
Same thing. It was a vision, it was not reality. If it was reality, there was no need of a vision.
Same thing. It was a vision, it was not reality. If it was reality, there was no need of a vision.
God sent moses and elijah to comfor jesus. He is able to do this you know??
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
So I guess this was not true?? Was jesus talking to himself? Was he looney like his mother and brothers tried to claim??
wow!!
Nephesh, a living, breathing creature...
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
The word for life here is...
nephesh:
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
The word here for creature is nephesh, the same word translated soul. So by your reckoning, lobsters, sea snakes, clams and starfish are immortal souls.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Again, nephesh, soul. So cattle, skunks, lizards and snakes are souls. Are they immortal souls?
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Life here is soul, includes robins, ravens and vultures. Are they immortal?
Teh word soul comes from the Hebrew nephesh and simply means anything that is living and breathes. Satan is the one who told the lie about immortal souls, God never said such a thing, what He said is...
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Souls can and do die...
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And the word for destroy here is...
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
It does not and cannot mean life in some other place.
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
The word for life here is...
nephesh:
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
The word here for creature is nephesh, the same word translated soul. So by your reckoning, lobsters, sea snakes, clams and starfish are immortal souls.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Again, nephesh, soul. So cattle, skunks, lizards and snakes are souls. Are they immortal souls?
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Life here is soul, includes robins, ravens and vultures. Are they immortal?
Teh word soul comes from the Hebrew nephesh and simply means anything that is living and breathes. Satan is the one who told the lie about immortal souls, God never said such a thing, what He said is...
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Souls can and do die...
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And the word for destroy here is...
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
It does not and cannot mean life in some other place.
I've shown you dozens of scriptures that prove beyond all doubt that the dead know nothing. You won't have any of them. God knows I have labored to show you these things. So have others.
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not love the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess 2:9-12)
Elin,, one of us is wrong. Satan won't be able to decieve me thru personating the dead.
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not love the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess 2:9-12)
Elin,, one of us is wrong. Satan won't be able to decieve me thru personating the dead.
You and Jesus are not on the same page.
So I'm sure you'll understand why I am going with what Jesus says. . .Abraham is living now.
S
That might have had something to do with the fact that Elijah never died and I personally think Moses was resurrected, not to mention the fact that it has already pointed out that scriptures themselves say this scene was A VISION. Remember when Michael was arguing with Satan of Moses' bones? There wasn't put in scriptures by accident.
lol.. John saw literal things. He saw reality (some of the things we are seeing today if we think about it)
God sent moses and elijah to comfor jesus. He is able to do this you know??
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
So I guess this was not true?? Was jesus talking to himself? Was he looney like his mother and brothers tried to claim??
wow!!
God sent moses and elijah to comfor jesus. He is able to do this you know??
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
So I guess this was not true?? Was jesus talking to himself? Was he looney like his mother and brothers tried to claim??
wow!!
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
Were these things existing in about 96 AD? Or did John see a Vision of a future event?
Did this happen at that time?
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Or did John see a vision of a future event?
Christ plainly says that it was a vision. Now you can keep trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole, but it is obvious what you are thinking.
S
You still have not dealt with Jesus' words in Mt 21:31-32 that Abraham is living now.
You and Jesus are not on the same page.
So I'm sure you'll understand why I am going with what Jesus says. . .Abraham is living now.
You and Jesus are not on the same page.
So I'm sure you'll understand why I am going with what Jesus says. . .Abraham is living now.
Why why why does it say THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST if they weren't dead??
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You still have not dealt with Jesus' words in Mt 21:31-32 that Abraham is living now.
You and Jesus are not on the same page.
So I'm sure you'll understand why I am going with what Jesus says. . .Abraham is living now.
You and Jesus are not on the same page.
So I'm sure you'll understand why I am going with what Jesus says. . .Abraham is living now.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
So Paul lied here, Christ was really no better than the second born, and by your way of thinking, He was probably something like the billionth born.
Let's talk about souls...
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
What is the word for soul here?
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
A creature that breathes for a living is a soul. Where else is the word nephesh used...
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
What is the word for soul here?
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
A creature that breathes for a living is a soul. Where else is the word nephesh used...
All spirits are immortal. . .divine, angelic, human and demonic.
Rocks are not souls and do not have spirits.
The truth is, the soul has nothing whatsoever to do with the spirit other than the spirit quickens the soul to life because the soul is a LIVING BEING. That's why scripture says a person IS NOT-- when the spirit leaves a dead body. You show me ONCE in scriptures where it says when a body dies, the soul leaves the body. And I'll show you the verse that says, when the body dies, the thoughts die. The thoughts are the consciousness. The person is dead.
So what part of him is still living?
E
That might have had something to do with the fact that Elijah never died and I personally think Moses was resurrected, not to mention the fact that it has already pointed out that scriptures themselves say this scene was A VISION. Remember when Michael was arguing with Satan of Moses' bones? There wasn't put in scriptures by accident.
as I agree it was not put in scripture by accident that Moses and Elijah was seen and talking to Jesus (the law and the prophet speaking to him, encouraging him, who better to do this?)
And also. It is not by accident that we are told abraham is still alive..