Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[just-me]

(Is that as clear as mud now) If I work hard enough at it I can even confuse myself.

No problem, sis. We'll get through it as the Holy Spirit leads us, concerning works of the flesh and the works of the Holy Spirit through us because of our belief in Jesus Christ.

 

[just-me]

So then you believe eternal life is eternal? And life after we are born again is a a continual life of learning and trusting God. That those who are his WILL show a changed life. WILL be the ones who follow God. and WILL be the ones who show works.

unlike those who think that even after we are saved, we can fail to meet some standard, and lose this life we have with christ?

Yes! Glad you asked.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes! Glad you asked.

Amen brother. Then we both believe in the one and only Gospel of Grace!

And as for your origional question. about who I was speaking of. I would not be speaking about you!

 

[Shiloah]

Well you are getting warmer...

However...

If Israels salvation wasn't founded on obedience to the Law then why the sacrifices and the blood to atone for their very soul for breaking Gods Law?

Why not just believe that they were already saved at Passover and the blood of that lamb covered them forever?

Bingo!! Because we are not saved by keeping the law, because no one has ever kept it perfectly but Christ; hence, only through Christ by way of His sacrifice, are we saved. The practice of sacrificing animals was practiced EXACTLY for this purpose, as a foreshadowing statement that He would have to fulfill the law by way of His personal sacrifice on the cross. Again, those very practices were that shadow He fulfilled; and hence, we no longer practice those sacrificial laws.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Bingo!! Because we are not saved by keeping the law, because no one has ever kept it perfectly but Christ; hence, only through Christ by way of His sacrifice, are we saved. The practice of sacrificing animals was practiced EXACTLY for this purpose, as a foreshadowing statement that He would have to fulfill the law by way of His personal sacrifice on the cross. Again, those very practices were that shadow He fulfilled; and hence, we no longer practice those sacrificial laws.

Yet did he not also fulfill the moral and judgmental laws also??

 

[Shiloah]

I was about to show you something but it will have to wait. You already know it but some here don't. I'm convinced of it.

Its the problem of agreeing with a Judaizer. You want them so much to see, but they don't. They are just trying to agree to draw you into their leaven. The leaven of works. I fast twice in the week, I thank you that I am not like that sinner, etc...

Well, I have to go to work. LOL If you knew what I did before I was saved and then saw what I do now you would laugh and laugh and laugh... The Lord is amazing and has blessed me more than I could ask or think...

The word "Judaizer" only is appropriate for those who are sacrificing animals for their sins since Christ fulfilled the sacrificial laws.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The word "Judaizer" only is appropriate for those who are sacrificing animals for their sins since Christ fulfilled the sacrificial laws.

this is not true

a judiazer is anyone who wants to add any part of the mosaic law to the gospel of Christ. Not just sacrificial

 

[Shiloah]

Yet did he not also fulfill the moral and judgmental laws also??

He fulfilled them by keeping them perfectly. But that turns us back around to square one where we have to address-- once again-- that sin is still sin and that the law tells us what sin is and that we are to abstain from sin. To think Christ's fulfillment of those commandments means we can now sin freely obviously can't be right! And here we are again, back to square one.

 

[Shiloah]

this is not true

a judiazer is anyone who wants to add any part of the mosaic law to the gospel of Christ. Not just sacrificial

Or take away from it, which is exactly what is happening when you try to cancel out the ten commandments. No one is adding to the gospel of Christ. Over and over it has been addressed what scriptures in the NT fully support this belief.

 

[Shiloah]

What does that really have to do with why the Israelites sacrificed all those lambs and bulls if they were already given salvation at Passover?

You can run but you can't hide... lol

Well apparently you can hide even when every fact possible to present has been laid right out before you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He fulfilled them by keeping them perfectly. But that turns us back around to square one where we have to address-- once again-- that sin is still sin and that the law tells us what sin is and that we are to abstain from sin. To think Christ's fulfillment of those commandments means we can now sin freely obviously can't be right! And here we are again, back to square one.

1. Who is claiming we can sin whenever we want? why is it no one ever listens? And you scream at us!!
2. Yes sin is still sin, what does that have to do with salvation as it pertains to the law?
3. Yes, The law is still in effect. Does it not prove DAILY we fail to meet the just requirment of the law?


square 1? yeah I would say we are.

in one breath you seem to be saying we are saved by grace. in the other your bringing up sin.. so which is it??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Or take away from it, which is exactly what is happening when you try to cancel out the ten commandments. No one is adding to the gospel of Christ. Over and over it has been addressed what scriptures in the NT fully support this belief.

lol. If you add the ten commandments to the gospel. you are a judiazer. and are preaching law not grace.

No, the scripture does not support that salvation can be gained or lost by how well we keep the commands. What scripture does teach is we can never keep them, and have already failed even if we could. which is why we need Christ!

 

[Shiloah]

1. Who is claiming we can sin whenever we want? why is it no one ever listens? And you scream at us!!
2. Yes sin is still sin, what does that have to do with salvation as it pertains to the law?
3. Yes, The law is still in effect. Does it not prove DAILY we fail to meet the just requirment of the law?


square 1? yeah I would say we are.

in one breath you seem to be saying we are saved by grace. in the other your bringing up sin.. so which is it??

Once again, I give up trying to explain. No matter how I explain it, and apparently even with these others who are far better then I am at explaining this, the understanding of what's being said just isn't happening here.

 

[Shiloah]

lol. If you add the ten commandments to the gospel. you are a judiazer. and are preaching law not grace.

No, the scripture does not support that salvation can be gained or lost by how well we keep the commands. What scripture does teach is we can never keep them, and have already failed even if we could. which is why we need Christ!

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

If Christ Himself doesn't have the authority to claim these commandments as His own and that we should keep them, I don't know who does.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once again, I give up trying to explain. No matter how I explain it, and apparently even with these others who are far better then I am at explaining this, the understanding of what's being said just isn't happening here.

how can it be?

what is the gospel? is it faith in Christ

or is it obeying the ten commandments.

or is it both?

We can not tell what you believe by what you post!

on the one hand, it appears you are saying by faith

on the other, it seems you are adding law (commands)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

If Christ Himself doesn't have the authority to claim these commandment as His own and that we should keep them, I don't know who does.

lol.. Ok who are these people?

the ones born again by God, and given the power to do them by his spirit and by filling their void?

or those who are trying to be saved by obeying them??

which is it?

 

[Shiloah]

how can it be?

what is the gospel? is it faith in Christ

or is it obeying the ten commandments.

or is it both?

We can not tell what you believe by what you post!

on the one hand, it appears you are saying by faith

on the other, it seems you are adding law (commands)

Can't believe I'm doing this. One last time, we are saved by grace which enables our faith which enables us to keep His commandments with the aid of the Holy Spirit; hence, we keep the commandments because we are saved by grace and then equipped with the Holy Spirit so we can keep His commandments.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can't believe I'm doing this. One last time, we are saved by grace which enables our faith which enables us to keep His commandments with the aid of the Holy Spirit; hence, we keep the commandments because we are saved by grace and then equipped with the Holy Spirit so we can keep His commandments.

which is what I have been saying all along.

now why could you not see this??

There are people that want to add to the gospel of grace, who say if we do not obey Gods commands at some set point (which they NEVER seem to want to tell us what this is) we can lose salvation.

They are judiazers!

 

[Shiloah]

And then if we sin.... we have our advocate in Christ!

 

[Shiloah]

which is what I have been saying all along.

now why could you not see this??

There are people that want to add to the gospel of grace, who say if we do not obey Gods commands at some set point (which they NEVER seem to want to tell us what this is) we can lose salvation.

They are judiazers!

Like John said on the other thread, someone just please shoot me.