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It must be awful to be the victim of rape. I know it must be difficult to deal with that. But the fact that a woman getting off as a virgin when she wasn't one is so wicked in the sight of God that He gave a righteous and just law to Israel that such women should be stoned is a pretty good reason to tell a prospective husband. In the Old Testament, the man who could have his wife stoned for not being a virgin on her wedding night had paid a bride price for virgins.
Let's say a man was missing certain reproductive organs, maybe certain parts that could make having a baby possible, or say he knew he was sterile. Shouldn't he disclose that before getting married? Let's say some street gang had tortured him and cut off parts of him, and he had suffered that trauma. Would his trauma justify his not telling his future wife that he wouldn't be able to function as a normal man in this regard or have children? I'd say it would be wicked for him to willingly withold this information.
It is a normal expectation to expect your partner to be a virgin on his/her wedding night. Just as it is a normal expectation to expect your partner to have the regular body parts and to be able to bear children. If you are unable to provide any of these things, you should disclose it so the other person can make up their mind with all the information.
In the Old Testament, instead of the divorce court, it could have been the field with the stones in it, for her, and not for him. Hopefully, someone who has gone through such trauma will heal up first. I know there are people who repress memories.
Just from a practical perspective, wouldn't it be incredibly foolish for a woman to wilingly withold the fact that she had been raped from a future spouse? Shouldn't she be know that he will accept that fact and accept her and her past before marrying him? What if it were a problem for him, afterwards?
If she knows he is wanting to marry a virgin-- and it could be a sin against his conscience not to if you think about it-- and she lies about it after she was raped, that's a horrible thing to do to her husband, even though something horrible had been done to her.
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I am not a virgin. I was at marriage, but now after many years with my wife, I am far from it. Those of you who equate virginity with purity, who think it is something you get back at salvation, are you saying I am impure for not being a virgin, or do you say I am a virgin even if I have sex with my wife? (Oops, sorry if that last bit was TMI.)
I think the problem is people are making way too much of the term 'virginity.'
I think the problem is people are making way too much of the term 'virginity.'
Well... If someone shoots you, did you not lose your life? Your life can be taken forcefully just as virginity can be taken forcefully. Saying you can only lose your virginity intentionally is like saying you can only lose your life intentionally. Understand how bizarre it is now? Anyway... You can not have sex willing then reclaim your virginity. Once it's done, it's done. That's just how it is. I'm not saying losing your virginity is something to be "ridiculed" or "feel bad about". But being involved in sexual intercourse means you are no longer a virgin. And that is permanent.
M
just like someone suggesting they didnt "teeeeeechnically" lose their virginity because they
didnt mean to
didnt want to
was by accident or without consent, wasnt their spouse, didnt love the person etc
If the event occurred its no different than someone smashing into my truck by accident
and nothing I say or do think or feel removes the fact that when I wake up in the morning to go to work
evidence that my truck got hit is going to be there, and the event still occurred even after it comes back from the body shop.
Im not trying to remove the emotions that go along with one losing ones virginity be it good or bad
What Im saying is lets be real about facts and not let emotions rule over logic.
If you got in an auto accident...could you turn right around and say
"No one can take away your automotive transportation(metaphor for virginity) unless you let them(unless it was consensual collision)"
didnt mean to
didnt want to
was by accident or without consent, wasnt their spouse, didnt love the person etc
If the event occurred its no different than someone smashing into my truck by accident
and nothing I say or do think or feel removes the fact that when I wake up in the morning to go to work
evidence that my truck got hit is going to be there, and the event still occurred even after it comes back from the body shop.
Im not trying to remove the emotions that go along with one losing ones virginity be it good or bad
What Im saying is lets be real about facts and not let emotions rule over logic.
If you got in an auto accident...could you turn right around and say
"No one can take away your automotive transportation(metaphor for virginity) unless you let them(unless it was consensual collision)"
To: The World.
No, I didn't read any comment in this thread, just thought I'd include or repeat, Now that you've ¨lost¨ your virginity, maybe as a Christian it's time to abstain, and focus on being wholesome, pure/undefiled. As instructed:
[h=3]1 Thessalonians 4:3-5[/h]Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
3 For this is God’s will, your sanctification: that you abstainfrom sexual immorality, 4 so that each of you knows how to control his own body[a] in sanctification and honor, 5 not with lustful desires, like the Gentiles who don’t know God.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
No, I didn't read any comment in this thread, just thought I'd include or repeat, Now that you've ¨lost¨ your virginity, maybe as a Christian it's time to abstain, and focus on being wholesome, pure/undefiled. As instructed:
[h=3]1 Thessalonians 4:3-5[/h]Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
3 For this is God’s will, your sanctification: that you abstainfrom sexual immorality, 4 so that each of you knows how to control his own body[a] in sanctification and honor, 5 not with lustful desires, like the Gentiles who don’t know God.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
- 1 Thessalonians 4:4 Or to acquire his own wife; lit to possess his own vessel
I think the car crash analogy is a good one. If your car got wrecked against your will, your car got wrecked. If you lost your virginity against your will, you still lost your virginity.
I think the problem comes with equating virginity with purity. You can lose your virginity and still be pure before God. Why would you every want to get married if that were not the case?
I think the problem comes with equating virginity with purity. You can lose your virginity and still be pure before God. Why would you every want to get married if that were not the case?
I think the Lord is very plain, that we can't put how we think it should be into our thinking.
If there is penetration, it is sex. You can't spiritualize it and say God does not see the physical, God only sees the spiritual of us. There is also a spiritual side to sex, we need to try to comprehend that. But it will not bend the physical facts, for there is a connection between the two.
However, there are a lot of other of God principles that applies. God wants the woman who has been harmed protected. God gives us examples of the compassion He feels for women who have been mistreated in the OT. God wipes us absolutely clean of sin when we go to Him with repentance. When we take our rape to Him, God looks on us with compassion, God does not hold us guilty.
We need to open our hearts and minds to all of God to understand the spiritual part of the physical of virginity.
If there is penetration, it is sex. You can't spiritualize it and say God does not see the physical, God only sees the spiritual of us. There is also a spiritual side to sex, we need to try to comprehend that. But it will not bend the physical facts, for there is a connection between the two.
However, there are a lot of other of God principles that applies. God wants the woman who has been harmed protected. God gives us examples of the compassion He feels for women who have been mistreated in the OT. God wipes us absolutely clean of sin when we go to Him with repentance. When we take our rape to Him, God looks on us with compassion, God does not hold us guilty.
We need to open our hearts and minds to all of God to understand the spiritual part of the physical of virginity.
R
I don't get it.
Seriously, I don't get it.
Why are we talking about virginity here?
What's there to say about what defines it and what isn't, and why is there such a mix of emotions about discussing this?
Didn't the Bible say that if we confess our sins to Him in Faith, He will be Faithful to forgive us our sins?
If God will forgive us our sins, then why must we worry about what other people complain about?
Some sins are not sins that are our fault.
Some sins are inflicted upon us and cause pain.
Why is a definition of a word so important to whether someone is ashamed?
Why is the individual so worried about the rest of us when there are so many people living in sin just ready to hurt someone else's feelings because they themselves are inadequate?
Grow up.
Seriously, I don't get it.
Why are we talking about virginity here?
What's there to say about what defines it and what isn't, and why is there such a mix of emotions about discussing this?
Didn't the Bible say that if we confess our sins to Him in Faith, He will be Faithful to forgive us our sins?
If God will forgive us our sins, then why must we worry about what other people complain about?
Some sins are not sins that are our fault.
Some sins are inflicted upon us and cause pain.
Why is a definition of a word so important to whether someone is ashamed?
Why is the individual so worried about the rest of us when there are so many people living in sin just ready to hurt someone else's feelings because they themselves are inadequate?
Grow up.
M
Its not that Ritter,
It has little to do with sex and more about helping people to keep from constructing their own reality in order to make sense of things.
Have you ever heard of Charles Manson? That would be an extreme example that people of our time could witness.
While most never be that extreme, the point being is that we should all be of sober mind.
It has little to do with sex and more about helping people to keep from constructing their own reality in order to make sense of things.
Have you ever heard of Charles Manson? That would be an extreme example that people of our time could witness.
While most never be that extreme, the point being is that we should all be of sober mind.
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If a woman is raped then physically she is not a virgin. Unfortunately I find yet again in "sex" threads that someone's spirituality isn't even considered.
The bible states in Deutoronomy that if a woman is raped then she is not guilty of sin. This is to not be held against her. She did not commit fornication. She is considered clean spiritually. This is what one should consider. If God doesn't fault a rape victim neither should we.
The bible states in Deutoronomy that if a woman is raped then she is not guilty of sin. This is to not be held against her. She did not commit fornication. She is considered clean spiritually. This is what one should consider. If God doesn't fault a rape victim neither should we.
Its not a matter of fault or blame or right or wrong.
When you buy a Brand New Car off the Lot, you get the Low APR and the benefit of knowing that You get to decide when where and how the maintenance gets accomplished. As soon as you drive off the Lot, your brand new car loses a ton of worth due to depreciation. It ceased to be New, and is now Used.
Sure, if you wanted to give it back in a reasonable amount of time, they could call it, "Certified Pre-Owned" but that is just a fancy term for not used much. But its still a used car.
Waging war against the definition of New or Used or even Certified Pre-Owned isn't going to change what those words mean.
It is simply a state of being. One either is or isn't something.
When you buy a Brand New Car off the Lot, you get the Low APR and the benefit of knowing that You get to decide when where and how the maintenance gets accomplished. As soon as you drive off the Lot, your brand new car loses a ton of worth due to depreciation. It ceased to be New, and is now Used.
Sure, if you wanted to give it back in a reasonable amount of time, they could call it, "Certified Pre-Owned" but that is just a fancy term for not used much. But its still a used car.
Waging war against the definition of New or Used or even Certified Pre-Owned isn't going to change what those words mean.
It is simply a state of being. One either is or isn't something.