Why No Women Are To Be Speaking In Church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#81
PS. the role of older women or female elders was likely to be teaching the young women, not ruling with authority over males.
Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that theybe in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
 
L

Leilanii

Guest
#82
If i cant speak in church, then im gonna need someone to tape my mouth shut. any volunteers?????
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
#83
If i cant speak in church, then im gonna need someone to tape my mouth shut. any volunteers?????
I believe Leilanii just inherited a piece of knowledge that every man was born with: duct tape can fix almost ANYTHING! :D

Now if I can just figure out a way to make it fix this broken arm I'm about to receive in the next reply.. lol.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#85
Duct tape is like the force. It has a dark side and a light side and it keeps the world together.
 
Aug 13, 2009
58
0
0
#87
but it never says anything about her having authority or even holding a postition in the Church
Again the church is the body of Christ and she does hold a postition in the CHURCH called a >>> MEMBER!
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#88
Again the church is the body of Christ and she does hold a postition in the CHURCH called a >>> MEMBER!
We all know that we are members of the body of Christ and of one another. Don't you think that when he mentioned 'position' in the church that he was talking about holding an office within the church, like the office of a pastor/teacher etc.?
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#89
Most recently there have been some exchanges on threads and the Bible Discussion chat room concerning the woman's role in the church. Many things have been thrown around from women being silent in the church to accusations of hating woman. Many of the scriptures that have been tossed around have been given to justify the believers position whether by preference or by conviction. What I observed and became a part of was a division and lack of unity in the faith on this subject.

I want every believer that reads this post to know that there is no such thing as non-essentials concerning the faith as DeeperStill and others have mentioned because all things pertaining to righteousness and true holiness are essential. You can not line up with believers on essentials and be divided on non-essentials and call that oneness or unity in the faith. As the boy of Christ we are to have the mind of Christ and to think the same things and have the same judgments (Phil 1:27, 1Cor 1:10, 1Pt 4:1). I have great respect for DeeperStill (T) but she is not right about this. She gave some good and sound scriptures about the tongue and the kind of words we speak to one another. I hope she and others still abide by those words that edify and a stranger's voice will not be listened to, that comes in privately to slander and discredits others.

Every word of God is pure (Prov 30:5). The entrance of every word of God brings light into the heart and mind of the believer (Ps 119:130). We are to live by every word of God and not just those things that we agree with and decide to submit to (Mt 4:4). Jesus said that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law till all be fulfilled (Mt 5:18). We will be judged by every word that has been spoken and written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Jn 12:48). The word of God has forever been settled in heaven, but among men on the earth this is not so (Ps 119:89). Before the presence of God there will be no excuses of ignorance, wrong interpretations or being subject to false teaching that we can use to justify our works and decisions we made in this life, because as a believer we were given the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth (Jn 16:13).

Concerning the reference made to Junia in (Romans 16:7) by Stephen63, she was a kinsman of Paul and was saved before Paul was, but Paul is referring to her as noted,marked and recognized for her extremely valuable service among the apostles not as an apostle. The preposition 'en' that is translated 'among' is locative and not instrumental, meaning she was in their midst having a valued service but not a partaker of their ministry as an apostle. She complemented them and made their ministry as apostles of greater value. She was to be saluted and respected for her service among the apostles.

There are those that read (1Tim 2:11-15) like Skyblue7, and remain silent as to what Paul was referring to in relationship to women. Paul refers to (Gen 2&3) that goes way back before the law, to explain his meaning and reason for his instruction to Timothy, as a young pastor. Jesus did the same with the Pharisees when they tempted Him concerning putting away a wife, in the institution of marriage, through a bill of divorcement in (Mt 19:1-8). Paul was very bold and clear in his meaning and instruction to Timothy in this matter, yet there are those on this site that would live contrary to his instructions and rationalize his meaning by wrestling other scriptures against it (2Pt 3:16), ignoring it in the context it should be considered and not applying it to their lives as believers because it is preferably a non-essential. If that is how inspired scriptures are to be treated by many on this site, then you will never find unity in the face and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (2Cor 4:6, Eph 4:3,13).
 
A

Aliciaforjesus

Guest
#90
In Bible colleges all over the world they teach that the scriptures you are using about women not speaking in the church had to do with education, (lack of education)
Men were raised being educated in the word and the Jewish customs.
Women were to be quite not to disturb the service if they had any question, they were to ask their husband at home.

What about Esther?

Joel talks about the Spirit being poured out on the women also?

I do think you have to watch out for a woman who wants to lead over men, it's called a Jezebel Spirit!

What is a prophet?
Is a prophet not a leader?
So why would God call a woman a prophet in the new testament,
if He didn't place them there?
The prophet Anna?
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
#91
The truth of the matter is the Bible is not what modern people consider "Politically Correct". People balk at mention of slaves, incestuous relationships, animal sacrifices, and women being treated as subservient to men. The history of Christianity and Judaism, like most religions, are draped in bloodshed and things most people wouldn't be proud of nowadays. Does that mean we should deny they ever happened?

Does that mean we should deny those teachings are for us, just because they seem to be sexist or prejudiced or not politically correct?

I love that we are able to discuss this freely and openly to make sure we have the correct answer, but there must be a line drawn. Analogies (such as the one brought up about slavery that didn't really fit in the discussion) and personal opinions have no place in the laws set forth by Jesus Christ unless he allowed them to be. Interpretation, if only proven by hearsay and opinions on the matter, have no place either.

I'm sorry, seeing this Law with a modern mind (and Lord knows this is almost never a good thing, even in his own time) does make it look entirely unfair. But again, this goes back to the original sin, which was caused (at least in part) by pride. The devil told Eve that God didn't want her to eat the fruit because she would be like a god herself. Her pride welled up inside of her, and she sinned the first sin that led to all of humanity's current suffering.

Would Adam have sinned eventually? Maybe, but what does it matter? Maybe someone else would've killed JFK, or John Lennon, or Martin Luther King, if their assassins didn't do the job. God knows they all had other enemies and people who wanted them out of the picture, but does that mean we should arrest those who didn't commit the crime?
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#92
In Bible colleges all over the world they teach that the scriptures you are using about women not speaking in the church had to do with education, (lack of education)
Men were raised being educated in the word and the Jewish customs.
Women were to be quite not to disturb the service if they had any question, they were to ask their husband at home.

What about Esther? God used her in a beautiful way to perform a great work.

Joel talks about the Spirit being poured out on the women also? Every saved, blood bought woman who has the Holy Spirit, should speak the truth about what God has done for them and magnify the Lord through His word, through praise and worship and sing a joyful song unto the Lord with grace in her heart.

I do think you have to watch out for a woman who wants to lead over men, it's called a Jezebel Spirit!

What is a prophet?
Is a prophet not a leader?
So why would God call a woman a prophet in the new testament,
if He didn't place them there?
The prophet Anna?
You deal with (1Tim 2:11-15) first, and explain what the Apostle Paul was communicating to Timothy which goes all the way back to the beginning and how it applies to the church, the body of Christ, today. You can compare other scriptures to it but you can't wrestle other scriptures against it. Then I will answer your other questions (but remind me).
 
A

Aliciaforjesus

Guest
#93
The truth of the matter is the Bible is not what modern people consider "Politically Correct". People balk at mention of slaves, incestuous relationships, animal sacrifices, and women being treated as subservient to men. The history of Christianity and Judaism, like most religions, are draped in bloodshed and things most people wouldn't be proud of nowadays. Does that mean we should deny they ever happened?

Does that mean we should deny those teachings are for us, just because they seem to be sexist or prejudiced or not politically correct?

I love that we are able to discuss this freely and openly to make sure we have the correct answer, but there must be a line drawn. Analogies (such as the one brought up about slavery that didn't really fit in the discussion) and personal opinions have no place in the laws set forth by Jesus Christ unless he allowed them to be. Interpretation, if only proven by hearsay and opinions on the matter, have no place either.

I'm sorry, seeing this Law with a modern mind (and Lord knows this is almost never a good thing, even in his own time) does make it look entirely unfair. But again, this goes back to the original sin, which was caused (at least in part) by pride. The devil told Eve that God didn't want her to eat the fruit because she would be like a god herself. Her pride welled up inside of her, and she sinned the first sin that led to all of humanity's current suffering.

Would Adam have sinned eventually? Maybe, but what does it matter? Maybe someone else would've killed JFK, or John Lennon, or Martin Luther King, if their assassins didn't do the job. God knows they all had other enemies and people who wanted them out of the picture, but does that mean we should arrest those who didn't commit the crime?

If God had planned to send Jesus before the world began, how could anyone say that God didn't know the fall was coming before He even created Man?

Lets give God more credit with what He has had planned!

All creation waits and anticipates to see what the children of God will become, isn't that what the Word says?

Doesn't the word say when we have been born again that we have been freed from the curse of the fall of Adam and Eve.
Didn't Jesus come to restore what was lost from that fall?

So why are we still there?

Where is the freedom that the spirit of the Lord brings.

The word says in heaven there is neither male or female, nor are we given in marriage.
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
#94
If God had planned to send Jesus before the world began, how could anyone say that God didn't know the fall was coming before He even created Man?

Lets give God more credit with what He has had planned!

All creation waits and anticipates to see what the children of God will become, isn't that what the Word says?

Doesn't the word say when we have been born again that we have been freed from the curse of the fall of Adam and Eve.
Didn't Jesus come to restore what was lost from that fall?

So why are we still there?

Where is the freedom that the spirit of the Lord brings.

The word says in heaven there is neither male or female, nor are we given in marriage.
Are we in Heaven? Would you call this Heaven? If this is Heaven, why would we need to die?

God knows EVERYTHING. We don't. That is why we have free will to do whatever we want, even though God already knows what's going to happen. Eve had the freedom to choose to sin, as did Adam.

By the way, if you're going to quote the Word, quote it, give the verses you're speaking from, don't just say "DOESN'T THE BIBLE SAY...". You're asking me to prove your point when you're trying to make a point contrary to my own. I honestly can't think of where the Bible says that we've been freed from the curse of the fall, because if it was, we wouldn't die.
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#95
If God had planned to send Jesus before the world began, how could anyone say that God didn't know the fall was coming before He even created Man?

Lets give God more credit with what He has had planned!

All creation waits and anticipates to see what the children of God will become, isn't that what the Word says?

Doesn't the word say when we have been born again that we have been freed from the curse of the fall of Adam and Eve.
Didn't Jesus come to restore what was lost from that fall?

So why are we still there?

Where is the freedom that the spirit of the Lord brings.

The word says in heaven there is neither male or female, nor are we given in marriage.
(ITim 2:11-15) deals with the fall and also with God forming the man first and then the woman, and that comes before the fall. The consequences of the fall concerning man working by the sweat of his brow and the woman bearing children with travail is still with us today and no matter how long you are saved and grow in Christ it won't change. If you deny these things then you are blind or you must think Paul to be mad and beside himself.
 
S

stillearning

Guest
#96
I agree I have heard terrible things come out of the mouths of so-called women "preachers", particularly the tongue-speaking ones, terrible things straight from the pit of hell. Like.. believe in Jesus and you will be saved. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength...forgive one another, do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

I do hope churches remove these false and satanic evil jezebel spirit witchery-doo paganistic tongue-babblers of the feminine variety, they are certainly not from God with false teaching like that.
well that might be a little bit harsh do not you think?? after all our sisters in Christ make up the body of Christ as well
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
#97
well that might be a little bit harsh do not you think?? after all our sisters in Christ make up the body of Christ as well
I do believe Mahogany was being sarcastic. ;)
 
A

Aliciaforjesus

Guest
#98
You deal with (1Tim 2:11-15) first, and explain what the Apostle Paul was communicating to Timothy which goes all the way back to the beginning and how it applies to the church, the body of Christ, today. You can compare other scriptures to it but you can't wrestle other scriptures against it. Then I will answer your other questions (but remind me).

What does the word deceived mean?
Eve was deceived, you don't know when you are deceived, your blind!
But man was not deceived, he made a choice to disobey God, where by we were thrown out of the garden.
God man made with a purpose and a woman was placed here to help man with God's purpose for Creating man.

God knowing when He created the world and everything in it, knew the woman would be deceived, and that, the man would disobey Him and fall for a woman!

That has not changed, even today a mans downfall is a woman! :rolleyes:

I am have no problem submitting to a Godly man, if He has the fruit of knowing God!
In fact, my life would be so much easier with a Godly man to summit too!

These scriptures many times are used in the wrong way, and many, so called Christian men, use it to excuse abuse towards women.

If the man is a Godly man that loves his wife like Jesus loves the church, and the woman summits to this Godly man, it would be a church that the gates of hell could not prevail!

It all works if it lines up with the word.

I myself have not found a man that can love me like Jesus does!








 
A

Aliciaforjesus

Guest
#99
Are we in Heaven? Would you call this Heaven? If this is Heaven, why would we need to die?

God knows EVERYTHING. We don't. That is why we have free will to do whatever we want, even though God already knows what's going to happen. Eve had the freedom to choose to sin, as did Adam.

By the way, if you're going to quote the Word, quote it, give the verses you're speaking from, don't just say "DOESN'T THE BIBLE SAY...". You're asking me to prove your point when you're trying to make a point contrary to my own. I honestly can't think of where the Bible says that we've been freed from the curse of the fall, because if it was, we wouldn't die.

As far as Eve's choice, she was deceived, does a person know when they are deceived?
Man made the bad choice to disobey God, woman did not know any better.

When I ask you, "Doesn't the word say" it's because I want you to question it,
It is the things for Kings to do isn't it, to search a thing out?

As far as being kingdom minded, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, and as far as the word says, there is neither male of female in Heaven, nor are they given in marriage.


As far as Jesus's coming,
He came to restore what was lost, did He not?

 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest

As far as Eve's choice, she was deceived, does a person know when they are deceived?
Man made the bad choice to disobey God, woman did not know any better.

When I ask you, "Doesn't the word say" it's because I want you to question it,
It is the things for Kings to do isn't it, to search a thing out?

As far as being kingdom minded, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, and as far as the word says, there is neither male of female in Heaven, nor are they given in marriage.


As far as Jesus's coming,
He came to restore what was lost, did He not?

Of course Eve was deceived, but she also made the choice to disobey God and trust the serpent. God gave her the same instruction on not eating the fruit (or maybe Adam did, but I do know she told the serpent that God told them not to, so obviously she knew better).

What was LOST was our fellowship with God, and He restored it by giving us the Holy Spirit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.