Why No Women Are To Be Speaking In Church

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C

CarrierOfChrist

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#121
#121
espresso said:
VERY well said, but Gods plan should not be "hard to swallow", we should embrace it. He loves women every bit as much as men, He just gave us different roles. While it may not make sense to our little brains, we can rejoice in the fact that He loves us very much and His plan is far better than any we could have come up with. It will all make sense some day and then we will wonder why we ever questioned his ways. Its unfortunate that so many want it their own way so bad that they twist Gods words which are very clear and look for ways to mold scripture to suit their liking.
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That's a bit unfair. God's plan can sometimes take the wind out of a new Christian's sails once they learn that their old ways that they thought were ok were actually wrong. My heart has dropped over a few things in the Bible that I thought were ok but weren't.

The phrase "look but don't touch" gets thrown around a bit in modern society, like it's ok the check women out and lust after them. It's not like you're harming anyone just by catching glimpses, right? Then you read the Bible, and you're like "OH SNAP, I MAY HAS WELL HAVE BEEN SLEEPING WITH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM! *forehead smack*"

So yea, we are supposed to embrace it, but some things are hard to swallow once you first find them out.
 
Sharp

Sharp

Senior Member
#122
May 5, 2009
2,566
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#122
Ok here's a question.

My mother is a very knowledgeable Christian. All she does all day is read the bible and Christian books. Is she allowed to teach me? I'm 23.
 
Sharp

Sharp

Senior Member
#124
May 5, 2009
2,566
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#124
But she's a woman, and I'm a man.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#125
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#125
Glad to read your mum is a woman :D.

I believe it is only in church that is a problem.
 
C

cornerstone

Guest
#126
#126
I am new to the forum, but you have to add to this discussion the definition of silence: to hold one's seat, not to disturb, it is not speaking of the "spoken" word. If so you have to clarify the directives in Titus 2 where older women are told to TEACH younger women. I do believe that in the church setting, a woman should remain soberminded, but did not Paul tell Phebe to go the the church in tell them her need? Romans 16:1

No where in scripture, did Jesus reject women speaking to him. It is a matter of confusion and keeping things in order. Women as well as men, should remain soberminded, "keeping one's seat" all things need to be done decently and in order in the Lord's assembly. This is not telling women that they should remain speechless, otherwise you have 3/4 of your church body dysfunctional. Look up the definition of silence in scripture. cornerstone
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
#127
#127
cornerstone said:
I am new to the forum, but you have to add to this discussion the definition of silence: to hold one's seat, not to disturb, it is not speaking of the "spoken" word. If so you have to clarify the directives in Titus 2 where older women are told to TEACH younger women. I do believe that in the church setting, a woman should remain soberminded, but did not Paul tell Phebe to go the the church in tell them her need? Romans 16:1

No where in scripture, did Jesus reject women speaking to him. It is a matter of confusion and keeping things in order. Women as well as men, should remain soberminded, "keeping one's seat" all things need to be done decently and in order in the Lord's assembly. This is not telling women that they should remain speechless, otherwise you have 3/4 of your church body dysfunctional. Look up the definition of silence in scripture. cornerstone
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Oy.. Yes, indeed, older women are to TEACH younger women. Who said they aren't supposed to? BUT, they aren't supposed to be sitting in the middle of a congregation while a church is in service explaining things to them.

The "Phoebe" Verse(s):

Romans 16:1 - I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea. (2) I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me.

Does that mean she was supposed to interrupt a service that was taking place in case she had a need?

Who said Jesus rejected women speaking to Him?? We're talking about speaking to the general congregation, not the Lord Himself! And trust me, if everyone weighed in with their opinions in a church body, NOTHING would EVER get accomplished! There has to be authority, and God chose adult males as that authority!

And nobody accused Jesus of not allowing women to approach Him! Do you think inside of a church or an assembly is the only way you can reach Him?? Did we say you're not allowed to pray in church??

It's not going to be a productive discussion if the same issues are having to be addressed over and over. This is part of the reason women are told not to speak in church, so we're not spinning our wheels trying to get everyone caught up. Please read the entire thread to make sure your issue hasn't already been addressed.
 
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sisterren11492

sisterren11492

Banned
#128
Aug 13, 2009
58
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#128
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.. (1 Cor. 14:35)

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Tim. 2:11:15)

Both of these is speaking to "married women" A married woman's head is her husband, not every man in the body of Christ. The man is speaking of a woman's husband she is not teach or to usurp authority over.


But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor. 11:3)

Some women are lead to believe that she has to submit to every man in the body of Christ, when this is not biblical and would dishonor her own husband to do this. She is to submit to her OWN husband.

If a woman is unmarried or a widow she is to submit to Christ because He is the head of the church (the body).

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. (Eph. 5:23)

A true man of God would have his own house in order not ruled by a iron fist but with the love of Christ.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. (Eph. 5:25-28)

It would be coveting to correct another man's wife because you are not her head (husband). If a married woman needs to be corrected than go to her husband which is her head and speak with him and if she needs to be corrected, her own husband should do the correcting.

Let all things be done decently and in order. (1 Cor. 14:40)

 
sisterren11492

sisterren11492

Banned
#129
Aug 13, 2009
58
0
0
#129
Also many married women with unsaved husbands claim that their pastors are their head. This would be sin (coveting) for any pastor to claim he is the head of another man's wife. Christ is the head of the church (body). Wives, you should love, pray and do good unto your unsaved husbands for this is pleasing unto the Lord.

1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
#130
#130
sisterren11492 said:
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.. (1 Cor. 14:35)

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Tim. 2:11:15)

Both of these is speaking to "married women" A married woman's head is her husband, not every man in the body of Christ. The man is speaking of a woman's husband she is not teach or to usurp authority over.


But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor. 11:3)

Some women are lead to believe that she has to submit to every man in the body of Christ, when this is not biblical and would dishonor her own husband to do this. She is to submit to her OWN husband.

If a woman is unmarried or a widow she is to submit to Christ because He is the head of the church (the body).

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. (Eph. 5:23)

A true man of God would have his own house in order not ruled by a iron fist but with the love of Christ.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. (Eph. 5:25-28)

It would be coveting to correct another man's wife because you are not her head (husband). If a married woman needs to be corrected than go to her husband which is her head and speak with him and if she needs to be corrected, her own husband should do the correcting.

Let all things be done decently and in order. (1 Cor. 14:40)
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"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

I don't understand why you bolded "the man" and said that it meant "her husband". How exactly did you come to that conclusion?
 
sisterren11492

sisterren11492

Banned
#131
Aug 13, 2009
58
0
0
#131
CarrierOfChrist said:
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

I don't understand why you bolded "the man" and said that it meant "her husband". How exactly did you come to that conclusion?
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Because the next verses is about Adam and his wife and talks about she shall be saved in childbearing which we see clearly is speaking of married women.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

This also lines up with what Paul said about married women in 1 Cor. 14:35:

1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
 
Semiazas

Semiazas

Banned
#132
Sep 2, 2009
249
1
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#132
the bible was written in very sexist times, what else would you expect it to say?
 
D

Densetzu

Banned
#133
Jul 6, 2009
318
2
0
#133
One would expect the apostle that God chose to bear the gospel to the gentiles would be a bit less sexist, but then I don't know the mind of God.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#134
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
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#134
Although in new testament times, the early church standards were quite counter-cultural re: women in a number of respects. Jesus was counter cultural in how he accepted and spoke with women, and this was how the early church treated women too. So it was a big step from the custom of the Jews etc at the time - but of course no where near as far gone as "women's rights" and all this rubbish around today.
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
#135
#135
MahogonySnail said:
Although in new testament times, the early church standards were quite counter-cultural re: women in a number of respects. Jesus was counter cultural in how he accepted and spoke with women, and this was how the early church treated women too. So it was a big step from the custom of the Jews etc at the time - but of course no where near as far gone as "women's rights" and all this rubbish around today.
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lol wow, trying to make friends are we? "... 'women's rights' and all this rubbish'..." I think maybe the term you were looking for is feminism or women's lib(eration). Feminism and women's lib, as defined by today's standards, is very sinful indeed. Some women complain about the job God Himself gave them, and act offended when men point out that they're going against the Word.

Let's see how many positive replies I get to this one...
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#136
#136
*shakes her fem-fist at you*...or something.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#137
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
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#137
Well you do realise that women's rights in general led to abortion rights? and a few other bad things.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#138
#138
The Bible doesn't say women can't have rights. In fact it's very clear that women are equal in God's eyes. We just have different roles within the church. Women's rights are not a bad thing. And if you want to say that women's rights in general led to abortion, why don't we just say sex, in general, led to abortions. Be real, men push for abortion rights just as much as women do.
 
D

Densetzu

Banned
#139
Jul 6, 2009
318
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#139
Abortion rights activism comes largely from the presupposition that women should be given control over reproduction as a means of controlling their own lives and destiny. So it does stem from the ideology of feminism to an extent. But feminism itself isn't wrong or bad.

The problem with abortion rights is that it ignores the right for the child to live; it takes the proper self-respect that all humans should have and goes too far with it, creating a peculiar brand of selfishness that says the woman's desires are more important than the child's existence.

And on the flip-side, some people use the excuse of protecting children to become fanatical in the opposite direction, attacking abortion doctors and spreading hatred and misinformation.
 
K

kujo313

Guest
#140
#140




What we're dealing with is the lifestyles of the people in another place in another time. Today, women are teachers. God is giving then something to say. I think we should hear it.
 
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