Sda's: If the Sabbath is an important law of God, then why...?

[danschance]

The people who killed Jesus belonged to the Jewish race. Christ also belonged to the Jewish race, so did Paul and John the Baptist. Booth killed President Lincoln. Have you looked up what race he belonged to so you can post that, too? Booth represented the people who resented Lincoln freeing the slaves. We could do the same thing with that entire group.

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are getting at. My earlier post was in response to those who claimed the Romans killed Christ. It is true the Romans pounded the nails into Christ but it was the Jews who insisted that Christ be put to death. Pontius Pilot found no guilt in Christ and washed his hands in front of the jews showing this was all up to them and not by Pilot.

 

[Laodicea]

Gen 2 is interesting and I appreciate you posting this, but it is still not a command that any man should keep. Adam and not been created yet. There is no indication that this is a law for Adam to keep. This also contradicts other passages that state:

1) Deut. 5:2-3 which states that these covenants did not apply to others before.
The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. TheLORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

2) The Sabbath was first employed during the exodus of Gods of the jews and never before.

3) You can not point to scripture and prove the following statement:

This is nothing but myth.

4)"Isaiah says God's people will keep the sabbath of the Lord in the new earth." Laodicea
Too bad you did not list a scripture.

[h=3]Isaiah 66:22-24[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Genesis 2 is clear that the sabbath was kept by God. Adam & Eve were created on the 6th day and rested (kept the sabbath) with God on the 7th. I am interested in you answering a question. In the OT why did God chose the 7th day as the sabbath? Why not the 1st or 4th?

 

[Kerry]

The people who killed Jesus belonged to the Jewish race. Christ also belonged to the Jewish race, so did Paul and John the Baptist. Booth killed President Lincoln. Have you looked up what race he belonged to so you can post that, too? Booth represented the people who resented Lincoln freeing the slaves. We could do the same thing with that entire group.

This is not just to you Red Tent, Nobody and I mean Nobody killed Christ. He gave Himself as a Lamb. What did Jesus say to Peter in the garden. Do you not know that I could call ten legions of angels to defend me. Then He picked up the mans ear and put back on his head. Nobody killed Jesus He gave Himself for us.

1 unnamed angel killed 185,000 trained soldiers of the Assyrians in one night. He could call ten thousand of these angels if He chose to do so. Thank God He did not!!!!.

 

[RedTent]

Gen 2 is interesting and I appreciate you posting this, but it is still not a command that any man should keep. Adam and not been created yet. There is no indication that this is a law for Adam to keep. This also contradicts other passages that state:

1) Deut. 5:2-3 which states that these covenants did not apply to others before.
The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. TheLORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

2) The Sabbath was first employed during the exodus of Gods of the jews and never before.

3) You can not point to scripture and prove the following statement:

This is nothing but myth.

4)"Isaiah says God's people will keep the sabbath of the Lord in the new earth." Laodicea
Too bad you did not list a scripture.

I just read this in passing, I can hardly believe my eyes!! That you would post that scripture is not to be believed!! Or are you one of those who say we must live in a world with no written law so you take it upon yourself to cancel any law that is written! The demons loose in our world love you if you do, they have no boundaries, no one giving those ten commandments to restrict them.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, along with everything in them.
Gen 2:2On the seventh day God was finished with his work which he had made, so he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Exo_31:15 Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who does work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

 

[josh123]

Hmmm, Christ must be describing a cult here...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I am impressed with sriptural exegesis, your opinions not so much.

did he say the 10 commandments... you just trying to twist to scriptures to what you want it to say

 

[zone]

Josh, we have to keep the Sabbath to be saved!

and there we have it.
please don't pretend you've ever said anything else.

 

[danschance]

Isaiah 66:22-24

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Genesis 2 is clear that the sabbath was kept by God. Adam & Eve were created on the 6th day and rested (kept the sabbath) with God on the 7th. I am interested in you answering a question. In the OT why did God chose the 7th day as the sabbath? Why not the 1st or 4th?

Again you are reading into scripture what you want to hear and ignoring the context.
Look at the phrase "from new moon to new moon". This proves the sabbath was to be honored on this earth only as there is no moon in Heaven and there is no seasons in heaven or even time itself. You are forcing this verse to mean what you hope it means.

Verses 22 has nothing to do with verse 23. Sabbath does not mean rest and never has. Sabbath is associated with rest but they are not synonyms. So please do not say that God rested proves God took a sabbath. God worked 6 days and "rested on the seventh as a foreshadow of sabbath, only. God does not need a rest! God never rests or takes a day off. He "rested" as a model for the jews to keep.

The sabbath was never instituted among Christians in the new covenant and it was never instituted before Moses came down from Mt. Horeb.

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, the Sabbath statement has been made by the MASTER HIMSELF in the Gospels of the New Testament. As it is written; "The SON of man is the LORD of the Sabbath." "Do you do good or bad on the day of Sabbath?" "If you Know how to work do good for you belongings on the day of Sabbath, why is it wrong if I work to restore one of Abraham's sons and daughters on the day of Sabbath?" "My FATHER is always working and so I must too work."
What was the MASTER of all of us was doing in action on the day of Sabbath and called HIMSELF the LORD of the Sabbath?
HE was showing more mercy and compassion for the lost sheeps of Israel on that day, apart from the every other days. Mainly HE was teaching, forgiving sins and delivering oppressed people on the day of Sabbath for the Kingdom of GOD.
In ignorance and confusion of and towards the Word of GOD, the Pharisees were offended with and by HIM.
Isn't this good enough proof for all of us to understand in a simple 'ways' of CHRIST given by the Teacher the HOLY SPIRIT of the Holy Bible?
Apart from these acknowledgement of a simple Living Truth of the MESSIAH, one can tend to represent themselves in reflect to as the hypocritical Pharisees, again in this new age.
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST take away all ignorance and confusion and restore in them spirit and truth to become the true worshipers for the Kingdom of GOD.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Originally Posted by RedTent

Josh, we have to keep the Sabbath to be saved!

and there we have it.
please don't pretend you've ever said anything else.

yep there it is. As much as philonomians equivocate and try to deceive about what they truly believe (whether consciously or not), the continual bearing witness to the truth eventually flushes them out and exposes their true colors.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

did he say the 10 commandments... you just trying to twist to scriptures to what you want it to say

How is he twisting anything there?

Luke 18:20

"Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother."

 

[Donkeyfish07]

and there we have it.
please don't pretend you've ever said anything else.

Wow, I always wondered why people automatically assume that anyone saying it's wrong to teach people to break the Sabbath commandment is teaching salvation by works.......I suppose those assumptions aren't entirely without merit when there are people saying things like in the post you quoted.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

GOD 'rested' on the seventh 'day', not because he was tired, but because he is perfect. The word translated rested in Genesis 2:2 means to end. GOD's not like us who have to continually do things over and over to get them right. He does things once and they are perfect.

Therefore, the 7th glorifies GOD for his perfection. GOD took 6 'days' to build creation and stopped on the 7th because the work he had done was perfect; there was (is) no need to go back and try to make things better. He is forever finished with building the old creation.

Man corrupted creation through sin. GOD doesn't try to fix the old creation. He builds a new and better creation that man can't corrupt, and abolishes the old, corrupted one.

When Christ died on the cross he declared, 'It is finished', meaning that his earthly work to reconcile man ended forever at the cross because it is perfect. Nothing more can be done to make man holy; the new man in heaven is perfect.

Yet in our current state, we on earth are not yet perfected. There must be continual cleansings and growth in holiness (sanctification). The weekly sabbath was instituted as law under the old covenant to compel man to remember that GOD is the one who does this sanctification. But the law could make nothing perfect.

We now have a better way under the new covenant, in which the one who sanctifies us dwells within us and perfects us through his spirit. There is no need for an external law (written on tablets of stone) to cause us to remember once a week that GOD is the one sanctifying because we now have the law of his spirit (written in our hearts) communing with us and sanctifying us every moment.

So it greatly dishonors GOD to disbelieve his witness that his work of reconciliation is complete and perfect, and to consequently look to law (instead of GOD) for sanctification and perfection. And conversely, it greatly honors GOD to believe his witness that we have been fully reconciled and perfected in heaven, and to rest in Christ's completed, perfect work.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Resting in Christ means to stop our efforts of trying to justify ourselves to GOD, which is just the fruit of unbelief that our justification is perfect and complete.

 

[john832]

did he say the 10 commandments... you just trying to twist to scriptures to what you want it to say

Hmmm, somebody else asked that question didn't he?

Christ said to keep the Commandments...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And josh123 said "did he say the 10 commandments"....

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which?

And Christ replies...

Mat 19:18 ...Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Same dodge, just 2000 years later. Yes, He said the Ten Commandments. The same Ten Commandments Christ, Himself, spoke on Mt. Sinai and then proceeded to say...

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

And the writer of Hebrews (Paul) says...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And they were speaking of the same Jesus Christ who said...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

How about explaining verses 17 through 19?

 

[john832]

Resting in Christ means to stop our efforts of trying to justify ourselves to GOD, which is just the fruit of unbelief that our justification is perfect and complete.

And on this we are in total agreement. But though we do not justify ourselves by our actions, we are not given a pass to do anything we want. God still expects us not to break His Law...

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Christ didn't say to the man, you are healed, now go out and do whatever you want, He said you are healed, go and sin no more, there are consequences to your actions.

The woman taken in adultery...

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Christ did not tell here that her actions did not matter, He said I don't condemn you, don't sin. Don't go out and do it again.

God does expect our obedience. Grace is the wonderful gift of pardon when we do. Our actions look like this to God...

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

But that is not an 007 license...

Paul is in lockstep with Christ...

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Notice verse 2, he is saying sin no more.

 

[john832]

Wow, I always wondered why people automatically assume that anyone saying it's wrong to teach people to break the Sabbath commandment is teaching salvation by works.......I suppose those assumptions aren't entirely without merit when there are people saying things like in the post you quoted.

Uh, who do you think God saves? Commandment breakers?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

It does not say blessed are the lawless, that they may have right to the tree of life. What it says is that those who keep the Commandments have a right to the tree of life.

Logical arguments and opinions osund great, but they don't refute scripture.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And on this we are in total agreement. But though we do not justify ourselves by our actions, we are not given a pass to do anything we want. God still expects us not to break His Law...
...he is saying sin no more.

Exactly. In the new covenant, sin is unbelief and not loving one's bother.

 

[john832]

Exactly. In the new covenant, sin is unbelief and not loving one's bother.

And though I respect your opinions, on that one we disagree, the Ten Commandments are not only still in force, they are more binding than ever. The good news (gospel) is that we have access to the Holy Spirit to help us obey and we have the sacrifice of Christ to pay for our sins so that we may have mercy.

I still believe that the Law defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

and that sin is...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Although, I think we are closer than it may appear on what we believe.

 

[SpiritofFire]

And though I respect your opinions, on that one we disagree, the Ten Commandments are not only still in force, they are more binding than ever. The good news (gospel) is that we have access to the Holy Spirit to help us obey and we have the sacrifice of Christ to pay for our sins so that we may have mercy.

I still believe that the Law defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

and that sin is...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Although, I think we are closer than it may appear on what we believe.

Law does define sin, but where there is no law (love) there is no sin.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

Uh, who do you think God saves? Commandment breakers?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

It does not say blessed are the lawless, that they may have right to the tree of life. What it says is that those who keep the Commandments have a right to the tree of life.

Logical arguments and opinions osund great, but they don't refute scripture.

I haven't refuted any scripture, or tried to.....all I'm saying is, saying you must "keep the Sabbath to be saved" is salvation by works, which is un-scriptural.

Ephesians 2:9-10

" [SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Good works come naturally as a result of salvation, works are not where our salvation comes from.

And who do I think God saves? Sinners.

Romans 3:23

" [SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Do you really think that nobody who has ever died that didn't keep the Sabbath is going to go to heaven?