To Be Born Again Is To Be Resurrected!

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M

marrion

Guest
#61
The GENTILES who were in the house of Cornelius who first received the Gospel were also baptized in this same manner (Acts 10:46-48) , “For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnified God. Then answered PETER, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? AND HE COMMANDED them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” (NIV).
Apostle PETER, having been given the keys to the Kingdom, commanded the JEWS, saying, “REPENT everyone of you and BE BAPTIZED in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38) “and you shall receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit.”

The same FORMULA was used by Saint PAUL. Paul himself REBAPTIZED the disciples of John the Baptist (Acts 19:1-5) in this same manner, saying, “Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? They said, ‘We know not whether there be any Holy Ghost.’ Paul said, “How was you baptized?” They said,’ We’ve been baptized unto John.’ Then said Paul, “John verily baptized with baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him that should come after him, that is on CHRIST JESUS.” WHEN THEY HEARD THIS, they were baptized in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” .
PETER AND JOHN did the same to the SAMARITANS as well in Acts 10:48,” And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS
” .
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#62
To "wall" you are way off the wall, the wall of truth, of God's word, the Bible. You are so confused that any one can see it. When you say that ,1Pet,1 and 1Cor 15 are the same, any one who reads at a 7th grade level ,can see your error. The Bible is an objective and clear, but deep,yes, but it is not confusing to any one who will read it with an open mind and according to the rules of reading and writing and a little of arithmetic,can help also. More to follow, Love to all. Hoffco.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#63
To "marrion", Sorry to say this, but you are also ,way off the "wall" of God's truth. There is only one stage of the New birth. BUT,I will say this, I like your definition of repentance better the Chuck Swindol's, carnal christianity. The new birth is a once for all times , a once for all, work of God never to be repeated or improved upon experience. It is an Aroist tense, past tense, and it stands completed for ever. More later. Love to all, Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#64
I want to review my teaching on the Bibles truth of "so great a salvation". I have done this before, If you could bring up all my posts, I don't know if that is possible; So I will state the Bible's position once against. I think you, "Wall" and "marrion" are Apostolic christians. They have some very off the wall doctrines, very much like the united Pentecostals. I do believe , they are both "oneness" who deny the trinity. This is a very dangerous heresy. The Fundamental church is very "cultic" and so is the Apostolic church, very cultic. The end time apostasy is spreading like wild fire. Some in the "emerging" church are destroying the Bible's inerrantcy. Soooo, I want to share my thoughts: The theme of the Bible is "God's eternal covenant of grace". This is best seen in Rom.8:29-30. Foreknew, Predestined, Called, Justified, and Glorified. This is God's eternal plan of salvation. For this moment, I want to center on how God applies salvation to us: This is in two stages. 1st. "Called",this is Sanctification, the second stage is "Justified" forgiveness. these 2 stages are each broke down to 3 parts each. Sanctification has three parts: !st, is the New Birth. 2nd, is the Christian life of victory over sin. 3rd, is Glorification, which is at death and the resurrection of the body. The second stage of /in salvation is Justification, first, we are justified by Grace. 2nd, by faith, 3rd, by works. Every thing in our salvation is under/in these two parts, Sanctification and Justification. The Bible teaches this in many places: for one, look at 2thes, 2:13-14 "...God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel,..." More later. Love to all, Hoffco
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,280
6,565
113
#65
[SUP]1Pe 1:3


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. [/SUP]
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,442
204
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#66
Do you know what I do not understand? The bible itself is like the veins in our body, there are many many veins as there are also just as many if not more scriptures. However Our veins cannot contradict each other or our body is in trouble. So the bibles verses are all connected to each other just as our veins are, but the problem is that people pick and choose scriptures to fit their beliefs.

I do not understand why the bible causes so much disunity as that was not it's intent. Jesus spoke of what it means to be born again yet people still do not understand. and as for being resurrected who is to say it is not a physical and spiritual thing? Can God not do all things?

The problem is not the bible nor it is it what the scriptures say about this subject. It's us. How are we to ever understand the hidden meanings and secrets in the word and in God's heart if we are not able to have a breakable and teachable heart? I have not seen many who are willing to change their views or beliefs even if they are kindly taught their beliefs or views are wrong. Do you really want to know the answer to this question? Go before God and put down what you think you know about this subject and be willing for God to teach you the true meaning even if it mean you were wrong. God does not use just the strong what he seeks more is someone who is willing.

Are we willing to set aside our beliefs and loosen our hearts in order to be taught? Or are we so steadfast in our beliefs that we refuse to listen to others and we are right no matter what? I admit I still require much maturity in christ, but I have found the secret to knowing what it takes to know the deeper things of God. even though as of right now I do not know that much of it, many of you have the Potential to do this.
John 8:32
and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,442
204
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#67
I speak of heart often because heart has much to do with everything of God. We cannot understand God's word without the holy spirit and heart for the Lord correct? think of this also, God's heart is deep and rich in love and mercy and power and majesty. David sought after the Lords heart and the bible even says God searches for one who is after his own heart. Our hearts define our faith, our hearts hold our true intentions and God searches our hearts daily. Where our hearts lie has a lot to do with the OP, because we cannot fully understand things of God without a heart that seeks these things for the right reasons nor can we if our hearts are not right with God. Heart has everything to do with faith and God
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Is this not what God has done for us by Faith in God (belief) a loving Heart over the stony one we have at first birth of selfishness.
Thank you Lord for the fulfillment in Christ, that all the Saints looked forward to, by Faith in you.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,442
204
63
#68
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit”.(John 3:5-6)
According to the Scriptures, “ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. And because we are ALL sinners by virtue of our natural birth - we are all under the curse of death. We needed a Saviour, one born by a Virgin birth and not by sexual conception, to bypass the curse. Jesus is that Kinsman Redeemer, a Perfect One, not born of sexual union but God's own pure blood (hemoglobin and egg) transplanted in the womb of a virgin. Jesus is the
Just One who laid down His life as a Perfect Sacrifice (in our place) to satisfy God’s righteous Law, to justify us, and to redeem us back to God again. Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour did that for us. “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled. In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight” (Col. 1:21-22).
THREE STAGES OF THE NEW BIRTH
Just like the natural birth, the New Birth undergoes three stages – water, blood and spirit.

When a woman gives birth to a child, the first thing that comes forth is water, then blood, then life (spirit). Being born again is a similar process with three stages: (1) Justification by Water, (2) Sanctification by the Blood, and (3) Baptism of the Holy Spirit. These three consists the New Birth in a person.

The same process goes even for the earth's redemption. The earth was baptized in water in the days of Noah. It was then sanctified when the blood of Jesus Christ was shed on Calvary's hill. It will be baptized with the Holy Fire of God during the Battle of Armageddon, before God can finally dwell on it during the Millennium.

Just the same way, before God can ever dwell upon a person through the baptism of the Holy Ghost (man- being a temple of the Holy Ghost) that man needs to undergo these three stages. Justification, sanctification, and Holy Ghost Baptism. God will not dwell upon a filthy, unconverted sinner. Man needs to repent of his sins, be forgiven, be cleansed, be justified, be sanctified, before the Holy Ghost, can ever dwell upon him.

FIRST STAGE - JUSTIFICATION
The first work of God’s grace in the sinners life is Justification.

Romans 3:24 tells us that we are “justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus”. Therefore, God sovereignly and freely justifies the sinner by calling him/her by the preaching of the Word to acknowledge that they’re sinners, and to repent and receive Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. Through the blood of His own Son, God looks beyond our sin, not laying it to our charge, and offers us (free of charge) salvation and deliverance from the power and influence of Satan and the old sinful nature of our flesh - this is Justification. He declares us righteous in Jesus Christ, and through the Gospel He invites us to accept [take possession of] His free gift.

Justification by faith requires believing the Word, “Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. “Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth” (I Peter 1:22). Then, Repentance and Water Baptism must follow it. Acts 2:30 states: “Repent, everyone of you and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Repentance is “sorrow for sin”, “a complete turning away from sin”, and such a “regret over one’s sins so as to decide to change one’s ways’”... “laying aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.” (James 1:21-22).

Scripturally, repentance has three main elements: (1)conviction, (2)contrition and the (3)desire to be changed.

Conviction is God’s red flag of warning us that we are going in the wrong direction. Being born in sin, we continue on in sin, doing that which is right in our own eyes without due regard for what God requires in His Word. Therefore, God, through the preaching of the Word, brings conviction that we need to change our ways to line up with His Word. 1 John 1:8-10 states, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. “

Contrition is a “sincere sorrow”, a godly sorrow and brokenness for our sins (2nd Cor. 7:10). The Bible says, “The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.” (Psalms 34:18). Contrition is a sincere regret over past sins and an earnest, humble desire to walk in a new path of righteousness, according to the instructions laid out in God’s Word. Contrition includes ‘humbling’ ourselves to God’s ways. When we stand at the Cross of Calvary and see what our sins cost God, our hearts should be broken and contrite - humbled; and we should cry out like the Publican cried, “God, be merciful to me a sinner” (Luke 18:13). The Bible tells us that when Peter considered how he had ignored and denied the Lord three times, he went out and wept bitterly because of his sin (Matthew 26:75).

The Desire To Be Changed: This is the third element of “Repentance”. It is the desire for God to change your thought pattern, change your attitude, change your ways, change your motives and objectives in life, to conform to His ways and His will for you. In 2nd. Corinthians 7:10 the Bible says, “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation.”

SECOND STAGE- SANCTIFICATION

The second work of God’s grace in the sinner’s life is Sanctification.

The Bible says, “For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification... that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1st. Thess. 4:3-4) “God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”. (2nd Thess. 2:13).

Sanctification is that grace whereby, at the time after repentance, the vessel of the individual’s life is “cleansed” from all past sins and unbelief and he/she is “set aside for service”. In the experience of sanctification, the individual feels swept, clean, fresh and garnished. All the bad habits and vices are being taken away slowly and the individual’s mind is set towards a life of holiness by the Holy Spirit. The principle of sin [by which we previously lived] is cast out. It’s an absolutely wonderful experience, creating in us the desire to always live a holy and sanctified life for the Lord - always doing what the Word [Bible] says.

THIRD STAGE - BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
The third work of God’s Grace in the sinners life is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 1:8 it says, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me”.
From these verses we conclude that Jesus Christ alone is the “Baptizer” with the Holy Ghost; and this Baptism is a Baptism of “Power”. It is a portion of the life of God coming into the believer to guide them into ALL Truth (John 16:13) and to give them power over all the power of the enemy and to be witnesses of Him and His Word. We can find that even though Apostle Peter was called of Jesus Christ and was given the keys to the kingdom, yet we read in the Bible that Peter still denied Jesus Christ three times before the cock crowed. That is because Peter did not have the Holy Ghost yet during that time and he still have to wait for the Day of Pentecost in order to receive the Promise of "fire" baptism in his soul. So we can conclude from here that a man can be baptized in water and be sanctified, yet without the Holy Ghost baptism, he can still deny our God and compromise with His Word. We need the Holy Ghost baptism in order for us to be "more than conquerors" in Christ Jesus. The Holy Ghost is also that "oil" that makes the wise virgins qualified to go into the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. Those that are without the Holy Ghost will be left behind in the Tribulation Period, weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth.

The Holy Spirit is our power over the world (worldliness), the flesh (self) and the Devil. He enables us to live daily for God - making the Word flesh in us. It is the “law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus which hath made me free from the law of sin and death”. (Romans 8:2). The Baptism of the Holy Ghost continues the work of Sanctification, separating us daily, from the world and the things of the world. The Holy Spirit (in us) creates in us a “hunger and thirst for the righteousness of God”.

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost seals us into the mystical Body of Christ. The Bible says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13). In the Baptism of the Holy Ghost the believer thus becomes the “Temple of the Living God”. 1st Corinthians 6:19 says, “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?” The Holy Ghost goes right into the soul, moves the old nature aside and takes control, governing our lives, not according to the dictates of the old fleshly nature of our natural birth, but according to the dictates of our new nature. Now, our lives become living epistles of the Word of God - read and known of all men (II Corinthians 3:2-3).

The Holy Ghost will also make the promises of God in Mark 16;17-18 a reality which state this, “And these SIGNS shall follow them that believe; In my Name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Every true Christian ought to undergo these three stages of the New Birth for Jesus Christ Himself said that “except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

If you have the Baptism of the Holy Ghost you will LOVE the Lord; believe ALL His Word and with His help, OBEY it, and you will manifest the “fruits of the Spirit”. Don’t try to have any sensation or anything to take the place of the Holy Spirit. When the new birth has come, you are changed. You don’t have to do anything to prove it, your life proves it. As you walk, you are filled with love, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, patience, that’s what you are. And the whole world will see the reflection of Jesus Christ in you. (Galatians 5:22-23). Look at the kind of person you were and then look at what you are now - see if there’s a change - see if you have indeed received this “LIFE-CHANGING experience” of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost - an experience that makes you “spiritually minded”, not just “religiously inclined”. Check up on your relationship with God to see if you put more emphasis on the WORD of God than you do the church you attend; see if you really believe the WORD more than you do a man-made dogma or creed; see if you are really LIVING every day for the Glory of God, giving Him the pre-eminence in ALL that you do.
It seems that you are preaching a work here, and that is great, but what work are you stating? For the only work I see I need and needed is the work to enter his rest. And for me I found this rest through belief.
Hebrews 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
1 Peter 4:2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,442
204
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#69
Wait I was never baptized by water, so then why do i have a relationship with God? I know I was baptized by the holy spirit but never water.
Sure you were, you were born of the flesh out of the womb. The water breaks and out we come from the womb. Today this water is known as amniotic fluid. But back in the day is was known as when the water breaks we come out, first birth.
[h=3]John 3:5-6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Water Baptism was by John the Baptist, sent by God to Baptize Christ. For Christ came to fill the Law and Prophets not destroy.
Baptism of the Holy Ghost is life, and Baptism of water is repentance. I want (desire) to serve God and find out I can't of self not perfectly. Cam if I am really desirous maybe get nine out of the Ten Commandments down, but never all Ten in completeness as Christ did by God's love through him that he so well depended on, by the Holy Ghost.
HMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same Holy Ghost he sent us

[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,442
204
63
#70
The GENTILES who were in the house of Cornelius who first received the Gospel were also baptized in this same manner (Acts 10:46-48) , “For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnified God. Then answered PETER, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? AND HE COMMANDED them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” (NIV).
Apostle PETER, having been given the keys to the Kingdom, commanded the JEWS, saying, “REPENT everyone of you and BE BAPTIZED in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38) “and you shall receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit.”

The same FORMULA was used by Saint PAUL. Paul himself REBAPTIZED the disciples of John the Baptist (Acts 19:1-5) in this same manner, saying, “Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? They said, ‘We know not whether there be any Holy Ghost.’ Paul said, “How was you baptized?” They said,’ We’ve been baptized unto John.’ Then said Paul, “John verily baptized with baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him that should come after him, that is on CHRIST JESUS.” WHEN THEY HEARD THIS, they were baptized in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” .
PETER AND JOHN did the same to the SAMARITANS as well in Acts 10:48,” And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS
” .
Does not anyone see it is by the baptism of God, the Holy Ghost that one is saved, Water great for wanting to serve God, but does not give life and Peter understood this finally in Acts 11 as he went through all that happened

[h=3]Acts 11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judæa heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, [SUP]3 [/SUP]saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying, [SUP]5 [/SUP]I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: [SUP]6 [/SUP]upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Cæsarea unto me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: [SUP]13 [/SUP]and he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; [SUP]14 [/SUP]who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

[SUP]18 [/SUP]When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.






John baptized with:
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Then the Baptism of the Holly Ghost came at Pentecost. Life from God a gift to those that Believe God. God does the Baptizing.
Now if one wants to do water, go ahead it is for a good conscience before God, not for membership in a certain Church group as what it is used for today.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


 
R

reject-tech

Guest
#71
I think when we are born again, we realize we don't know squat, and pick up the bible, our surroundings, and gospel with fresh eyes to start all over again.

In other words, we dis our church traditions and cut our selves off in order to relearn the truth.

I think we can see many of the old testament characters going through this process.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
1,417
154
63
#72
To "wall" you are way off the wall, the wall of truth, of God's word, the Bible. You are so confused that any one can see it. When you say that ,1Pet,1 and 1Cor 15 are the same, any one who reads at a 7th grade level ,can see your error.
1PETER1
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Phil.3{21}
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So Hoffco....Explain my confusion
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
1,417
154
63
#73
Tell me Hoffco....have you been born again? Already?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#74
My old man flesh is dead and am alive in flesh that God by god's Spirit holds alive as he did in the day of Pentecost. Now you can go ahead and promote flesh alive as in the sin nature all you want by a pin test.
Again God is the one that holds me alive, not me.
Thanks for your take, God prefers to have God's take, for the flesh today is still at war against the Spirit of God
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Take the hatpin test and see if you are still flesh...

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#75
I think when we are born again, we realize we don't know squat, and pick up the bible, our surroundings, and gospel with fresh eyes to start all over again.

In other words, we dis our church traditions and cut our selves off in order to relearn the truth.

I think we can see many of the old testament characters going through this process.
OK, but it doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what I think. What matters is what the scriptures plainly say.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#77
?????I do not even understand the questions in this post. What does scripture say? IF it were a physical resurrection to be born again then these verses couldn't fit.1 Peter 1:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of GodNow that YOU have purified yourselves...for YOU HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN.I am fairly certain he wasn't writing to dead people. Yet he speaks in past tense...they aren't dead yet he says HAVE BEEN born again. So either agree with scripture or go your own way. I choose to Worship God.
The word for born here is...

G313
ἀναγεννάω
anagennaō
an-ag-en-nah'-o
From G303 and G1080; to beget or (by extension) bear (again): - beget, (bear) X again.

So which is it? Beget or bear?Context is king...

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

When do we become incorruptible?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Changed? Yep, the corruptible puts on incorruption at the last trump which is the return of Christ.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

When is this?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Context plainly shows that we are born incorruptible at the last trump, the return of Christ. So how should we translate I Pet 1:23?

1Pe 1:23 Being begotten, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Now this scripture agrees with the other writings of Paul and stays true to the Greek.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#78
:confused: So you're saying one is born of water and Spirit at the resurrection before entering God’s kingdom? So in other words, you aren't yet washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit through the word of God, because that is what Jesus was telling Nicodemus as a requirement for entrance into God's kingdom?
No we are born of water (baptized) now and born of the Spirit at the resurrection. Just because two events are mentioned in the same sentence does not make them concurrent. Here is an example...

"The Revolutionary War and the Vietnam War were terrible events." Happen at the same time did they? Nope, they were separated by about 200 years.


No. The above passage is not referring to being born again but rather resurrection when believers transform into incorruptible bodies (also Phil 3:21). "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself" (Phil 3:21).

Born again = Salvation = Regeneration by the Holy Spirit = What Jesus was telling Nicodemus.
No, He was telling Nicodemus this...

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you are flesh, you are flesh and if you are spirit, you are spirit...

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Then Paul goes on to say this...

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Now back to John 3, here is what it is like to be born of the Spirit...

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

If you are invisible and no one can tell where you are, then you might be born of the Spirit.


And salvation is a present possession...
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


And God calls those things things as if they have already happened...

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

If you are flesh and blood (take the hatpin test) you are not incorruptible and have not inherited the Kingdom of God, yet.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#79
I want to review my teaching on the Bibles truth of "so great a salvation". I have done this before, If you could bring up all my posts, I don't know if that is possible; So I will state the Bible's position once against. I think you, "Wall" and "marrion" are Apostolic christians.
Uhhh. who you asking to bring up all your posts? Anyways, what an apostolic Christian? Doesn't really matter. Ive been called worse im sure.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#80
Uhhh. who you asking to bring up all your posts? Anyways, what an apostolic Christian? Doesn't really matter. Ive been called worse im sure.
I've been worked over by experts.