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V
@danschance
Callous? no. Disingenuous? Perhaps.
Some of the respondents here have answered with honesty and civility; addressing these questions as important and with respect. To them I am thankful; however, I find your demeanour to be downright disingenuous as you are accusing me of things I have not done, and relying on logical fallacies to fuel your arguments.
You’ve said you don’t really care about what I am posting on evolution but I have not made a single comment regarding that subject, you have and I quickly attempted to move the discussion away from the science. You have claimed that this is not a science forum, yet you were the one to first bring up references to scientific theories.
As you said, this is a Christian forum, that is what I posted the following questions after providing a framework for what I mean by 'Logically Possible' and 'Logically impossible':
1) Do you believe that God is logically possible?
2) Do you think God is subject to these rules of logic?
3) If yes, do you believe that there is adequate evidence to justify a belief in god, what evidence is this?
4) If you think this is unresolvable, how do you rationalize your faith?
If you think that questions like this are a waste of time then don’t bother commenting on these types of forums. As the discourtesy of resorting to logical fallacies & the disrespect with the insults to my intelligence and personal integrity (ie. suggesting that I am closed-minded, unwilling to accept new information and attempting to put me in the category of ‘idiot’ and ‘illogical’) are unbecoming of you and appear down-right childish.
If Jesus is truly the best thing in your life, perhaps you should re-evlauate the way you’ve interacted with me here. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I am under the understanding that Christ taught his followers to love their fellow man and be good Samaritans, not to be rude and demeaning.
Callous? no. Disingenuous? Perhaps.
Some of the respondents here have answered with honesty and civility; addressing these questions as important and with respect. To them I am thankful; however, I find your demeanour to be downright disingenuous as you are accusing me of things I have not done, and relying on logical fallacies to fuel your arguments.
You’ve said you don’t really care about what I am posting on evolution but I have not made a single comment regarding that subject, you have and I quickly attempted to move the discussion away from the science. You have claimed that this is not a science forum, yet you were the one to first bring up references to scientific theories.
As you said, this is a Christian forum, that is what I posted the following questions after providing a framework for what I mean by 'Logically Possible' and 'Logically impossible':
1) Do you believe that God is logically possible?
2) Do you think God is subject to these rules of logic?
3) If yes, do you believe that there is adequate evidence to justify a belief in god, what evidence is this?
4) If you think this is unresolvable, how do you rationalize your faith?
If you think that questions like this are a waste of time then don’t bother commenting on these types of forums. As the discourtesy of resorting to logical fallacies & the disrespect with the insults to my intelligence and personal integrity (ie. suggesting that I am closed-minded, unwilling to accept new information and attempting to put me in the category of ‘idiot’ and ‘illogical’) are unbecoming of you and appear down-right childish.
If Jesus is truly the best thing in your life, perhaps you should re-evlauate the way you’ve interacted with me here. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I am under the understanding that Christ taught his followers to love their fellow man and be good Samaritans, not to be rude and demeaning.
V
@Ariel82
lol nope, simple spelling mistake
hence my attempt to clarify and avoid potential confusion.
"We will pray that God work in your life to reveal His reality to you.” --> While I don’t really believe in the power in prayer, I recognize that this is genuine and done with good intentions I thank you for it.
lol nope, simple spelling mistake
hence my attempt to clarify and avoid potential confusion. "We will pray that God work in your life to reveal His reality to you.” --> While I don’t really believe in the power in prayer, I recognize that this is genuine and done with good intentions I thank you for it.
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L
Yes belief in GOD is logical,what is not is the belief it does not make sense.The thing I find most illogical is that Big Bang idea,and that is a so called Big Bang did happen, they the scientists spouting this educated guess cant explain the cause of their Big bang and then what made matter and atoms and so forth.The list of what can not be explained but does actually exist can go on forever.
A
If an unmovable object ceases to be an object, could you consider that object having been moved?
I believe there is a way that you can answer yes to that question but only if you define unmovable and moved describing separate events.
For example: the object is unmovable if it is unable to be physically moved from one place to another (purely hypothetical but because there isn't an object that is truly unmovable or even unmoving).
However you can describe it as being moved from one state of existence to another. Or you could define the object as moving in the context of aging through time and not remaining static.
Therefore if you consider the different dimension one could base your observation upon that object, you can logically conclude things that may seem illogical if not clearly defined and outlined.
In the same manner God may appear illogical to those who do not have spiritual eyes to see into His realm.
Elisha's servant was afraid because he was not able to see into the spiritual realm until Elisha prayed for him to see the angels encamped around them. After having seen the angels it became illogical for him to continue to be afraid.
[h=3]2 Kings 6:14-17
[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore he sent horses and chariots and a great army there, and they came by night and surrounded the city. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” [SUP]17 [/SUP]And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
I believe there is a way that you can answer yes to that question but only if you define unmovable and moved describing separate events.
For example: the object is unmovable if it is unable to be physically moved from one place to another (purely hypothetical but because there isn't an object that is truly unmovable or even unmoving).
However you can describe it as being moved from one state of existence to another. Or you could define the object as moving in the context of aging through time and not remaining static.
Therefore if you consider the different dimension one could base your observation upon that object, you can logically conclude things that may seem illogical if not clearly defined and outlined.
In the same manner God may appear illogical to those who do not have spiritual eyes to see into His realm.
Elisha's servant was afraid because he was not able to see into the spiritual realm until Elisha prayed for him to see the angels encamped around them. After having seen the angels it became illogical for him to continue to be afraid.
[h=3]2 Kings 6:14-17
[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore he sent horses and chariots and a great army there, and they came by night and surrounded the city. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” [SUP]17 [/SUP]And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
Using our kind of logic was not the reason Elisha's servant stopped being afraid, that simply was not the way he thought at all. That is the way you think and why you would not be afraid. He wasn't afraid because he saw the angels and saw how he fitted in with the fact of the angels. The two of you arrive at the same conclusion, but the method of thinking in the OT is not the way you think. You cannot understand the OT until you explore how they thought.
F
The evidence i always cite is look at history and you will find all kinds of civilizations that lost their land or were conquered and what happened to them. Within at least 200 years or so they became assimilated into whatever culture they were thrust into and lost their identity. Except for the hebrews 2000 years without a country and they remained true to their culture and managed to avoid being eradicated by several different peoples. Why because the God of the bible says they are his chosen people and they would remain so forever.
well,when we look around us.We can see that there is someone who has made all things.Who has made all human beings and living things.There is someone who is governing this universe.This system cannot work without an administrator. our eyes cannot see everything.Sometimes we have to open the eye of our heart.We have to look in our heart to know God.
There is a common world around us and there is a spiritual system working around us.
There is a common world around us and there is a spiritual system working around us.
1 Timothy 6:20Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,
Romans 12:2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
2 Corinthians 4:16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.
Romans 12:2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
2 Corinthians 4:16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.
not true
the big bang came from a cosmic egg or cosmeg - just ask carl sagan or steven hawking
presumably the cosmic egg came from a cosmic chicken
i dont know where the cosmic chicken came from or which came first - the chicken or the egg
the big bang came from a cosmic egg or cosmeg - just ask carl sagan or steven hawking
presumably the cosmic egg came from a cosmic chicken
i dont know where the cosmic chicken came from or which came first - the chicken or the egg
God says a single rib is all that seperated the male from the female. Science says that a single gene is all that seperates the male and female zygotes.
Science says that for all their subatomic theories to work, there has to be another level of existence, dark matter and energy they call it, invisible to us except for how it acts upon things we can see. God tells us there's a whole 'nother level of existence out there, that we are seperated from and only visible by how it affects that which we can see.
It's not God's logic that fails. It's the world and it's spinners that lack wisdom.
1) Yes. At the most basic level, I can conceive of a God who is omnipotent, while I cannot conceive of a square circle.
2) Not necessarily. If we take a post modern approach and acknowledge that logic is a systematised way of interpreting the universe that must necessarily be a human creation, then it is possible to argue that, because God by definition must be a much higher intelligence than humans, he could conceivably act in ways that appear illogical, if only in terms of frame of reference, if not actuality. However, even still, I think God in his interactions with humanity could, and indeed does, act in ways that are intelligible to humans and are therefore logical.
3) Three to kick it off. As with most things, it is the mass of arguments that produce persuasiveness, but these are enough to go with:
a) The historicity of Jesus and the New Testament in particular, particularly in the context of 1st century Judea
b) The question of morality, values, and moral justification, as a comparison between theistic and humanistic frameworks in particular
c) Origins, something versus nothing, and general ontology
4) While I think there is rational proof for God, it's not a given that God must stop at the level of rationality to exist, or to engender faith in people. The point is made in the NT that Jesus, the Messianic Saviour of the Jews, died. This was not logical to the Jews, who expected a conquering general. It was not logical to the Greeks, who thought it was just dumb that anyone should be of note because they died, and even dumber that anyone could claim they then came back to life. However, this is a difference of assumption and reference, and the assumptions that underpin many things often shift and change as with culture. So God is not beyond using foolish things to make his case, but God's foolishness in the eyes of man is quite possibly true wisdom.
how do you rationalize your faith? to me this is a great question. rational according to who? the things i went through seem rational to me but to others it wasn't. the bible is full of examples where someone does something that isn't rational. abraham, moses and noah come to mind right away. they followed with faith of their belief in God. even when others would say what they did wasn't rational.
here is a thing you wont hear that often, i am not required to rationalize my faith to other people, i am required to rationalize my faith to God. that can only be done by belief. look up the words "test" and the word "ament" you want rational proof that God exist? maybe God wants rational proof that you exist! try confessing your sins and and ask his son Jesus for help. you might be shocked at how much proof God will give you. i can only witness to the truth of the bible, it works.
duewell
mark 4 v 11-13
the rainbow connection
here is a thing you wont hear that often, i am not required to rationalize my faith to other people, i am required to rationalize my faith to God. that can only be done by belief. look up the words "test" and the word "ament" you want rational proof that God exist? maybe God wants rational proof that you exist! try confessing your sins and and ask his son Jesus for help. you might be shocked at how much proof God will give you. i can only witness to the truth of the bible, it works.
duewell
mark 4 v 11-13
the rainbow connection
I think, therefore I logically am. If a man can not see, hear, smell, taste, or feel, does the man logically exist? According to your logic no. But he does. If you can not see, hear, smell, taste, or feel the wind, does it logically exist? According to your logic no. But it does.
If you can not see, hear, smell, taste, or feel God does God logically exist? According to your logic no. But He does. People who believe in God don't use logic to understand whether He exists or not we use Faith for our understanding.
And with our Faith, ALL things are possible unlike the possible logical impossibilities.
If you can not see, hear, smell, taste, or feel God does God logically exist? According to your logic no. But He does. People who believe in God don't use logic to understand whether He exists or not we use Faith for our understanding.
And with our Faith, ALL things are possible unlike the possible logical impossibilities.
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