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So much prejudice here. Why do you think atheists "fear the bible"? I think it would be nice if Heaven existed. It's reasonable that many atheists would like to believe in Heaven. But many of us do, in fact, think that Christianity isn't "reasonable or rational". If you want to understand our feelings, you can gain some empathy by putting yourself in our shoes... what do you think about Islam? Do you think it's false because you're "afraid of the Qur'an" or is it because you think Islam is neither rational nor reasonable? Are you unbelieving in the Qur'an simply because you want to break its laws?
Please, don't tell atheists that you understand their motives better than they do. It's just as silly as when you hear atheists tell you what Christian motives are. Wouldn't it make sense that people understand themselves better than others do?
Please, don't tell atheists that you understand their motives better than they do. It's just as silly as when you hear atheists tell you what Christian motives are. Wouldn't it make sense that people understand themselves better than others do?
Agreed. Megaman125, you ought to treat others they way that you want to be treated. Even if you don't like atheists, the bible suggests that you treat them with kindness. If you want to have an effective argument (a positive testimony for Christianity), then *you* ought to be showing us how Christians are supposed to act rather than be told with scriptural citation.
Interesting post (I like posts that make me think 
).
Christians often assert that believers, in a desire to continue sinning without the risk of having to pay the piper, will give up believing in God, thinking it gets them off the hook; but honestly Megaman, and I am not trying to bluff you here, but I don't think Christians really comprehend how it is people lose their faith. I would be very surprised if anyone loses belief in God for the reason we've outlined above. Maybe it occurs sometimes, but I don't think so. I have heard so many Christians make this assertion that I wonder where everyone is hearing it from. You know, you could start a thread on this. It would be interesting.
You mention that atheist behaviour points you to this conclusion. What behaviours were you thinking of and what key questions would you ask?
But if a person thinks God is not real, how do you propose that person make this admission? Job could humble himself before God because he believed in God’s existence. Atheists truly think man created the idea of God.
I suppose you need to ask what it is that prevents atheists from acknowledging God’s existence. It is not that I don’t think God is right, it’s that I don’t think God real.
I would not say atheists exhibit any less pride than Christians, I would only suggest pride has little bearing on why people become atheists.
There are numerous examples of Christians sinning without becoming atheists. This is not the factor that causes loss of belief in God’s existence. This does not produce atheists.
).Christians often assert that believers, in a desire to continue sinning without the risk of having to pay the piper, will give up believing in God, thinking it gets them off the hook; but honestly Megaman, and I am not trying to bluff you here, but I don't think Christians really comprehend how it is people lose their faith. I would be very surprised if anyone loses belief in God for the reason we've outlined above. Maybe it occurs sometimes, but I don't think so. I have heard so many Christians make this assertion that I wonder where everyone is hearing it from. You know, you could start a thread on this. It would be interesting.
You mention that atheist behaviour points you to this conclusion. What behaviours were you thinking of and what key questions would you ask?
But if a person thinks God is not real, how do you propose that person make this admission? Job could humble himself before God because he believed in God’s existence. Atheists truly think man created the idea of God.
I suppose you need to ask what it is that prevents atheists from acknowledging God’s existence. It is not that I don’t think God is right, it’s that I don’t think God real.
I would not say atheists exhibit any less pride than Christians, I would only suggest pride has little bearing on why people become atheists.
There are numerous examples of Christians sinning without becoming atheists. This is not the factor that causes loss of belief in God’s existence. This does not produce atheists.
Q
remember i told you in another thread about baptism of the holy spirit,
I said most kids will say God how can you be everywhere and god why cant i see you, well i believe that is divine intervention
i believe that is when kids ask for god to come into there lives i believe that is baptism of the holy spirit,
So i believe there is no such thing as an atheist its just someone who has baptism of the holy spirit but chooses not to follow gods will, we need to pray for them in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit, peace be with you
I said most kids will say God how can you be everywhere and god why cant i see you, well i believe that is divine intervention
i believe that is when kids ask for god to come into there lives i believe that is baptism of the holy spirit,
So i believe there is no such thing as an atheist its just someone who has baptism of the holy spirit but chooses not to follow gods will, we need to pray for them in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit, peace be with you
L
I can't understand one really important thing about all of this.I would never want to go on atheist site and forum to even give my opinion let alone argue.What motive would one have for being on a christian chat site as a atheist?There has to be a reason or reasons.Anyway ,Christians,in confrontational situations are best to be careful answering to opposing viewpoints.
Instead of answering arguments, you're "arguing about arguing"? Why wouldn't you go on an atheist forum to argue? Jesus would. Why wouldn't you want to defend your faith with reason?
I do, at least, agree with you that "Christians in confrontational situations" ought to be careful answering opponents. Bad arguments "poison the well"... that is, a bad argument makes "your side" look bad and can cause your opponents to ignore or rationalize away your good arguments (it ought not to be this way, but it is). Also, a wide variety of arguments make it appear that your answers are coming from multiple sources, rather than a consistent source such as God.
I do, at least, agree with you that "Christians in confrontational situations" ought to be careful answering opponents. Bad arguments "poison the well"... that is, a bad argument makes "your side" look bad and can cause your opponents to ignore or rationalize away your good arguments (it ought not to be this way, but it is). Also, a wide variety of arguments make it appear that your answers are coming from multiple sources, rather than a consistent source such as God.
M
I could answer those questions, in a variety of ways. It's just that, when I'm dealing with atheists, it usually doesn't matter if I actually answer those questions or not, they don't listen or care to. Instead, atheists will usually bring up other religions just to hide behind them instead of actually seeking answers to those questions.
So in other words, don't do what they're doing? Ya know, refer back to how the atheists assume that someone doesn't want to talk to them "because they're afraid of losing their faith."
You do make a point. But that's why I generally don't like talking with atheists (especially those that I'd group as the 99% typical atheists). How or why I ever found myself in this topic, well, that's something I have to take the blame for. Keep in mind the Bible also says not to cast the pearls before the swine. I also hold the opinion (which may or may not be accurate), that when it comes to the group I classify as the 99%, I don't believe there's anything I could say that could "push them further away from God," because I don't believe that's a thing for these people. I believe they're as far away from God as they want to me. (Again, that's just my opinion.)
As for treating them how I want to be treated. If I came on here way back when I was an atheist, I would have loved it for someone to speak to me boldly, and even a bit harsh. It would certainly be memorable, and they might have even gotten me so fired up that I'd be daring enough to take a challenge such as "go to a Christian church, or find a group of Christians, and ask them to lay hands on you and pray to have evil spirits cast out in the name of Jesus Christ," just to try and prove them wrong. But maybe that's just my style, which may or may not work for others, and that's ok.
So in other words, don't do what they're doing? Ya know, refer back to how the atheists assume that someone doesn't want to talk to them "because they're afraid of losing their faith."
You do make a point. But that's why I generally don't like talking with atheists (especially those that I'd group as the 99% typical atheists). How or why I ever found myself in this topic, well, that's something I have to take the blame for. Keep in mind the Bible also says not to cast the pearls before the swine. I also hold the opinion (which may or may not be accurate), that when it comes to the group I classify as the 99%, I don't believe there's anything I could say that could "push them further away from God," because I don't believe that's a thing for these people. I believe they're as far away from God as they want to me. (Again, that's just my opinion.)
As for treating them how I want to be treated. If I came on here way back when I was an atheist, I would have loved it for someone to speak to me boldly, and even a bit harsh. It would certainly be memorable, and they might have even gotten me so fired up that I'd be daring enough to take a challenge such as "go to a Christian church, or find a group of Christians, and ask them to lay hands on you and pray to have evil spirits cast out in the name of Jesus Christ," just to try and prove them wrong. But maybe that's just my style, which may or may not work for others, and that's ok.
M
Interesting post (I like posts that make me think ).
Christians often assert that believers, in a desire to continue sinning without the risk of having to pay the piper, will give up believing in God, thinking it gets them off the hook; but honestly Megaman, and I am not trying to bluff you here, but I don't think Christians really comprehend how it is people lose their faith. I would be very surprised if anyone loses belief in God for the reason we've outlined above. Maybe it occurs sometimes, but I don't think so. I have heard so many Christians make this assertion that I wonder where everyone is hearing it from. You know, you could start a thread on this. It would be interesting.
You mention that atheist behaviour points you to this conclusion. What behaviours were you thinking of and what key questions would you ask?
).Christians often assert that believers, in a desire to continue sinning without the risk of having to pay the piper, will give up believing in God, thinking it gets them off the hook; but honestly Megaman, and I am not trying to bluff you here, but I don't think Christians really comprehend how it is people lose their faith. I would be very surprised if anyone loses belief in God for the reason we've outlined above. Maybe it occurs sometimes, but I don't think so. I have heard so many Christians make this assertion that I wonder where everyone is hearing it from. You know, you could start a thread on this. It would be interesting.
You mention that atheist behaviour points you to this conclusion. What behaviours were you thinking of and what key questions would you ask?
As for key questions - I would start with something like this. Say that we gave you enough evidence where you would say, "Ok, I have enough evidence, and I believe God exists." My question to you would be, would you worship God? Why or why not? (and please don't come back with the "which God?" question, we all know which God we're talking about.)
I'm not sure how you would answer that question, so I'm not going to answer it for you. I could give you the predicted response of the 99% if you'd like.
Well, I'm not sure I really believe that atheists truely think that. After all, of God was just nothing more than a man-made idea and none of it is true and nothing will even come from it, then it's safe to just ignore, and it'll go away. But in reality, atheists don't act like that (well, a lot of them don't.), and it isn't going away. Perhaps I just borrow from my views from when I was an atheist and project those onto other atheists too much. For instance, when I was an atheist and was taught the big bang, I didn't believe it. I found it more rational to believe that the universe has a creator (in some form or another) than to believe the universe does not have a creator at all. I do tend to extend this to others in the sense that I don't believe anyone really thinks it's rational to believe the universe has no creator.
Perhaps you're right, maybe I should look at some atheist testimonies and maybe I can get a better sense of why they're atheists. I do have a few conclusions I've come to thus far, some of which I deem to be more plausable than not.
1. Atheists don't believe in God because of "science." (I don't deem this one to be that plausable, but still slightly plausable enough that I will acknowledge it)
2. Atheists don't believe in God because God didn't give them that new bike they wanted when they were a kid. This one can come in a lot of varieties, but it's basically them not getting what they want from God on their demand, as if God is supposed to be some kind of wish granting genie. This view of God and not getting what they want can very easily be linked to pride.
3. Atheists had a bad experience in their lives, or maybe even were hurt by someone at church, and as a result, left the church and turned from God.
4. There's a sin they like and don't want to confess that it's a sin because they don't believe it should be. In other words, they believe God is wrong about what should/shouldn't be a sin and they are right. This is the pride I've been talking about.
If there are other reasons, please share some of them with me, or link me to some testimonies you think would be good for me to read. Please note, I do not consider the "God is evil" argument to be plausable, hence I didn't list it above.
Fair point, but I think we're talking about 2 slightly different things. You say they don't become atheists because of pride, but that's not quite what I'm talking about. I'm saying they won't make the transition from atheist to Christian because of pride and how they don't want to confess their sins (see #4 on my list above).
Right, sinning doesn't produce atheists. If that were so, then we'd all be atheists because we're all sinners. However, there is a difference between how Christians treat their sin and how atheists treat/view it.
M
No, I don't need to admit to any such thing just becuase I refused to spoon feed you stuff you didn't want to eat. You want me to spoon feed you, the least you have to do to is demonstrate to me that you're willing to eat it. Otherwise, it's just a waste of my time (in which case, wasting my time would be accomplishing your primary goal). So far you have only demonstrated to me that you don't care to listen or learn from another perspective, and there is no reason why I should bother trying. So no, I didn't lie just becuase i didn't bend to your every whim.
Yes, it would seem so, wouldn't it.
I lost my belief in God over a period of six years. In that time I was a fence sitter, leaning to one side of the theist-atheist divide or the other. I leapt back into faith right near the end of that six year period, and tried with every ounce of my being to rediscover my belief in God. I tried to make contact with God. I wanted him to reach out to me, to tell me he was there. I prayed and read the Bible in earnest. It was probably fear that temporarily brought me back, but in the end I concluded No One was there.
As I said in the post you responded to, some atheists do have a latent fear that they might be in error, and that fear brings some of them back to God. I have talked with a few atheists who admitted that they hadn't gotten over the fear of Hell. It is one thing to stop believing in God, it is quite another to stop worrying about Hell. Warnings against Hell are so prevalent in our Christian upbringing that this fear is a tough one to shake. Not all atheists feel this way, but there are some who do.
Some might still be trying to convince themselves, you’re right. As Christians like to point out, the penalty of being wrong is eternal damnation – at least, that is the fear. In the early years of my atheism I spent a lot of time assuring myself I wasn’t wrong.
Just don’t make the mistake of assuming all atheists are like me.
No, it lends no support to the Christian claim that the Bible is true, it is only evidence that certain people fear it might be true.
My goodness! No, I have never possessed violent tendencies. I can’t identify with that.
Indeed, undesirable for sure! With all due respect, I would suggest that these emotions were simply part of your personality, and were not a result of your atheism. Perhaps your belief in God does help you to control those emotions. Christianity might act like a soothing tonic for you.
I don’t think you can generalize too much. Of the atheists I know, myself and two others were Protestants, another was Catholic and the remainder were all born into atheism. Of these individuals I am the only one who enjoys the company of Christian forums.
I really don’t believe that people become atheists because they are essentially angry with God. If you are angry with God you still believe in his existence. You know there are growing numbers of Christians who have essentially stopped believing in the threat of Hell. So if Christians don’t like God’s judgement all they need do is switch to a mode of understanding in which God does not send people to Hell. This happens all the time. It is far easier to change your mind about what God wants than it is to stop believing he exists.
I lost my belief in God over a period of six years. In that time I was a fence sitter, leaning to one side of the theist-atheist divide or the other. I leapt back into faith right near the end of that six year period, and tried with every ounce of my being to rediscover my belief in God. I tried to make contact with God. I wanted him to reach out to me, to tell me he was there. I prayed and read the Bible in earnest. It was probably fear that temporarily brought me back, but in the end I concluded No One was there.
As I said in the post you responded to, some atheists do have a latent fear that they might be in error, and that fear brings some of them back to God. I have talked with a few atheists who admitted that they hadn't gotten over the fear of Hell. It is one thing to stop believing in God, it is quite another to stop worrying about Hell. Warnings against Hell are so prevalent in our Christian upbringing that this fear is a tough one to shake. Not all atheists feel this way, but there are some who do.
Some might still be trying to convince themselves, you’re right. As Christians like to point out, the penalty of being wrong is eternal damnation – at least, that is the fear. In the early years of my atheism I spent a lot of time assuring myself I wasn’t wrong.
Just don’t make the mistake of assuming all atheists are like me.
No, it lends no support to the Christian claim that the Bible is true, it is only evidence that certain people fear it might be true.
My goodness! No, I have never possessed violent tendencies. I can’t identify with that.
Indeed, undesirable for sure! With all due respect, I would suggest that these emotions were simply part of your personality, and were not a result of your atheism. Perhaps your belief in God does help you to control those emotions. Christianity might act like a soothing tonic for you.
I don’t think you can generalize too much. Of the atheists I know, myself and two others were Protestants, another was Catholic and the remainder were all born into atheism. Of these individuals I am the only one who enjoys the company of Christian forums.
I really don’t believe that people become atheists because they are essentially angry with God. If you are angry with God you still believe in his existence. You know there are growing numbers of Christians who have essentially stopped believing in the threat of Hell. So if Christians don’t like God’s judgement all they need do is switch to a mode of understanding in which God does not send people to Hell. This happens all the time. It is far easier to change your mind about what God wants than it is to stop believing he exists.