"If you continue to sin, you go to hell"

[TannarDarr]

So there are certain sins that are attributed to our growth process, so they are over looked by God?

Not sure how you got to that unless you had the wrong mushrooms in your breakfast omelette. That isn't even a logical attack for what I said.
Growth in spiritual maturity is growth. It's not an opinion or a judgement. You don't look at a tree and say, It's got pretty leaves, so it's 8 foot taller.

You are either spiritually mature, or you aren't. IF you still sin, then you aren't spiritually mature, YET is how I read it. That's the milk/meat in Paul's discussions. As Paul describes it and John, once mature you aren't controlled by the FLesh, and it's removed totally from your life. Problem is, people see FLESH for the Greek word SARX and tie it to the human body. Which is logical but not how the Greek used it.

Gal 5:16, the Corinthians verse that says where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Freedom. The Romans 8:9 comment, and Col 2:11 comments from Paul both attribute to this. John wrote to be in fellowship with God you must walk in the light as HE does, and the people he wrote to still needed a little darkness (sin) washed from their lives to be in fellowship. He wrote the letter so they may not sin. IOW he wrote to help them to maturity. He later said if you still sin, you don't know Him (yet). AND that if you are born of God, not only will you not live in sin, but you can not sin.

Those are NOT convenient verses for most denominations, but that is exactly what they say. People who want to avoid that there is a spiritual maturity, and just claim Jesus was here for salvation, must do SOMETHING to write those verses aside.

The fact is, Jesus wasn't here to save you. That's a great benefit to his presence on earth, but it wasn't His purpose. In fact Romans 6:22 shows salvation (atonement) is but the first step in what Jesus put into effect.

If you focus on sins, you aren't focusing on the path He's set out for you to get to Spiritual maturity. It's like driving down the road, trying to get to the horizon / goal, but your head is out the window like a dog watching the center stripe/or gutter depending on what country you drive in. EVENTUALLY you will steer the direction you are looking. You'll end up in the ditch. Paul wrote he didn't know that he had any sins or not, he just focused on the goal before him. OR he ran the race to the goal, not looking at those around him. Paul also said in the same conversation that he didn't consider himself to be "perfect" (*word means mature. look it up), in other words, he did not contemplate and assume he was there already, and those that are perfect must keep the same mindset. Don't let the word "perfect" hang you up. Go look it up. You can use Blue Letter Bible - Home Page If you don't know how to get the concordance tool there to work hollah I'll help.

So, if you think it's about sins or not sinning, and you focus on the sins, you fail to meet the path, that growth occurs on. That path, according to paul is in Eph 4. It's that the Church leaders, lead the people in the Church to do works. Paul describes in Gal 5:6 works of love through faith.... The word Agapao requires the demonstration of works to be Agapao. As the church leads you through those works, you grow in knowledge of Christ and in Unity with your brothers/sisters in the faith.

The works you do perfect you. How perfect??? or how mature??? Paul says that if Christ is the measure of spiritual maturity on earth then:

Your maturity will be like a glass....

It will be just as full of "maturity" as the Christ's glass was.
ANd it will be the same size glass as Christ's glass was.

AND IN CASE someone tries to prevaricate with the meaning of those words, he says redundantly, to the fullness of Christ's maturity.

Now, The word LOVE you see in scripture, Agape Agapao (v), doesn't even mean "love". Remember the KJV used charity often for it. The word is used to describe incestual rape in the LXX (Septuagint) or Greek old testament that was prevalent in Jesus day. It means something you long for and act upon. You can AGape ungodly things. That's another use of the word. That means you "lust" something and act on that lust. IT's used for sexual antics between a couple, again, a desire that is acted upon.

So if you LOVE NEIGHBOR, you must act on it. Those actions are works no matter how you cut it. Through those works you grow to maturity. That maturity is as completely mature as Jesus the Christ was on earth.

And most of us are taught that is impossible. BUT it's what the Bible describes.

 

[TannarDarr]

Correct. Part of growing up is that sometimes we may fall, but with repentance, we stand back up.

Well, I think you mean to say you can confess and stand back up. Repentance means you turned your back to that sin and no longer commit it. I dunno about you, but I'm still working on the repentance thing.... but I'm running that race.

 

[TannarDarr]

Hey bub, Got some thoughts for you. We see this differently by the way, in other words we'll both think the other is nuts, but I would think you are bright/brave enough to consider the oppositions thoughts?

What's going on Owen?

I'm one of the ones who don't believe in the concept of "process" as it relates to our salvation. If God detest sin and if Christ died for our sins, I think that it is kind of hard for sin to be apart of our growth.

It's sorta like this. Salvation is being asked to be on God's baseball team.
But, where you were a power righty pitcher before, and a .400 batter righty before, God says you must now pitch and bat lefty. (I.E. changed life).

Now, joining the team doesn't make you automatically as good a lefty as you were a righty.

You can read books (bible scholar)
watch film (less studious, follows others examples)
until you are confident you know everything there is about throwing lefty and batting lefty.

But when you get on the mound, you'll throw like a physically confused dolt. You'll throw like a second grade girl that has only played with dolls all her life.

What must happen, is this. You must get on the mound and throw the ball lefty. Over and OVER and OVER and OVER,etc.... You'll throw astray several times as you grow to make a "new natural" in your life. ALong those mistakes/bad throws/sins John tells us that we have a mediator who will forgive us.. 1 john 1:8-2:1.

The mentality of "when I fall" is nowhere is Scripture. John said that "IF" we sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

early in chapter two he said those he wrote to still had darkness (sin) to be washed off. The people he wrote to, still had some growing to do, I.E. some sin mindset/lifestyle to be done away with. AND THEN they would be in fellowship with God, not before. John admitted that if you still sinned you weren't mature yet. I.E> perfect. BUT that along the path as you grew, if you fall, Christ still assumes your sin debt. That's called atonement. It's the first step in maturation. You have to reach the point that you know you can come home (prodigal) and after you start the walk, he'll give you strength to get there. When you get there, he'll wash you of your sins (col 2:11 sinful nature/flesh removed from the person) and you'll be His/Home/Clean again.

How can we reach maturation through sin? In Romans 6, Paul asked 2 questions that speaks volumes (paraphrasing):

1. Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? Nope
2. How shall we who died to sin live in it any longer?

Love Romans 6. Vs 22 shows that "now that you are atoned for" (that is salvation), and have become a slave to God, (that is obedience see vs 16 I think) THEN YOU RECEIVE A BENEFIT (not defined here but I'd say col 2:11), and the benefit leads to sanctification, or being made apart, made different.

You are looking at it as what YOU can do against sin. Scripture, in my Bible at least, says HE will give you a new heart, and HE will change how your mind works, and HE will teach you how to love. IF HE is the one going to do the changes, isn't important that you worry about walking the path he set you on, that you love His neighbors, feed the poor, etc... for him to do the changes. I.E. start to pitch lefty. Then let your coach help you in the change.
Salvation is a monergistic (I.E> only God alone can grant atonement)
Maturation is Synergistic (I.E. God works with your life to change you.)

if you only see salvation as the goal, you miss the most important part of the boat, and may miss it entirely.

Do I believe people fall? Yes, and this is from personal experience but I fell because I wasn't doing the things that I was supposed to do. I wasn't in the Word like I was supposed to nor praying like I was supposed to. Little by little, old man flesh started creeping to the forefront and before I knew it, I was back under the bondage of sin because I chose to go back.

Now, I will answer your question with a question; what do you think about continual sin?

Continual sin is the "sinful nature" Paul discusses in Romans 7 and shows the answer to in Romans 8. It is removed by Christ (not your endeavors) at a point in your maturing like a circumcision (which as you know doesn't grow back). Col 2:11.

Change will only occur by living life and learning to live it differently. You'll fail along the way but He'll coach you, train you through life and through more failures, and you'll end up as spiritually mature as Jesus the Christ was. That's what scripture says.

So you are saved at the altar call (*maybe...) (*assuming sincerity, etc...)
You work at Obedience Rom 6:16
You do the loving acts you were saved to do. Gal 5:6
Through the love/works He changes you. Eph 4:11-17
The change is as mature as Christ was.... eph 4 again.
That person is in fellowship with God 1 john 1:3-7,
And he Knows God so he does not sin any longer 1 j 3:6

Note, knows Him in 3:6 is akin to in fellowship with Him in 1:4ish.

You don't stop sinning when you are saved, that is your process to change your life.

You have been changed by God when you are mature, and that change is Godly, and you do not do sins anylonger. That is the post conjunction conclusion of 1 john 3:9 OU hamartano. NOT SIN AGAIN.

 

[gb9]

there is a difference between continual sin and making mistakes. if you go out and get drunk and party and come back and ask for forgiveness and keep doing it, then it is still a sinful lifestyle. if a person does something they do not mean to do, while it is still a sin, it is a mistake. this is not the same as continual sin.

 

[cfultz3]

Well, I think you mean to say you can confess and stand back up. Repentance means you turned your back to that sin and no longer commit it. I dunno about you, but I'm still working on the repentance thing.... but I'm running that race.

I think you mean what you just quoted me saying. We all speak in different mannerism. Repentance = confess and stand back up. I use to be like you too, so I know where you are coming from.

 

[OwenHeidenreich]

If you continue to disobey the Lord, you'll probably go to hell. No matter what you convince yourself, the bible says it in Matthew 7:22. And people may call me religious because I focus on obeying God strictly.
Listen, if you are unholy and if there's a sin found in you and you didn't repent, you are not a part of the rapture.
PEOPLE! What's wrong with you? And once again fighting for your freedom?

People call me religious for the same reason, LOL! I guess my conclusion is "IF you are making an effort to not sin, you will be forgiven. If you purposely act impure, imperfect, wicked, then you cannot be forgiven"

 

[OwenHeidenreich]

Hey bub, Got some thoughts for you. We see this differently by the way, in other words we'll both think the other is nuts, but I would think you are bright/brave enough to consider the oppositions thoughts?



It's sorta like this. Salvation is being asked to be on God's baseball team.
But, where you were a power righty pitcher before, and a .400 batter righty before, God says you must now pitch and bat lefty. (I.E. changed life).

Now, joining the team doesn't make you automatically as good a lefty as you were a righty.

You can read books (bible scholar)
watch film (less studious, follows others examples)
until you are confident you know everything there is about throwing lefty and batting lefty.

But when you get on the mound, you'll throw like a physically confused dolt. You'll throw like a second grade girl that has only played with dolls all her life.

What must happen, is this. You must get on the mound and throw the ball lefty. Over and OVER and OVER and OVER,etc.... You'll throw astray several times as you grow to make a "new natural" in your life. ALong those mistakes/bad throws/sins John tells us that we have a mediator who will forgive us.. 1 john 1:8-2:1.



early in chapter two he said those he wrote to still had darkness (sin) to be washed off. The people he wrote to, still had some growing to do, I.E. some sin mindset/lifestyle to be done away with. AND THEN they would be in fellowship with God, not before. John admitted that if you still sinned you weren't mature yet. I.E> perfect. BUT that along the path as you grew, if you fall, Christ still assumes your sin debt. That's called atonement. It's the first step in maturation. You have to reach the point that you know you can come home (prodigal) and after you start the walk, he'll give you strength to get there. When you get there, he'll wash you of your sins (col 2:11 sinful nature/flesh removed from the person) and you'll be His/Home/Clean again.



Love Romans 6. Vs 22 shows that "now that you are atoned for" (that is salvation), and have become a slave to God, (that is obedience see vs 16 I think) THEN YOU RECEIVE A BENEFIT (not defined here but I'd say col 2:11), and the benefit leads to sanctification, or being made apart, made different.

You are looking at it as what YOU can do against sin. Scripture, in my Bible at least, says HE will give you a new heart, and HE will change how your mind works, and HE will teach you how to love. IF HE is the one going to do the changes, isn't important that you worry about walking the path he set you on, that you love His neighbors, feed the poor, etc... for him to do the changes. I.E. start to pitch lefty. Then let your coach help you in the change.
Salvation is a monergistic (I.E> only God alone can grant atonement)
Maturation is Synergistic (I.E. God works with your life to change you.)

if you only see salvation as the goal, you miss the most important part of the boat, and may miss it entirely.



Continual sin is the "sinful nature" Paul discusses in Romans 7 and shows the answer to in Romans 8. It is removed by Christ (not your endeavors) at a point in your maturing like a circumcision (which as you know doesn't grow back). Col 2:11.

Change will only occur by living life and learning to live it differently. You'll fail along the way but He'll coach you, train you through life and through more failures, and you'll end up as spiritually mature as Jesus the Christ was. That's what scripture says.

So you are saved at the altar call (*maybe...) (*assuming sincerity, etc...)
You work at Obedience Rom 6:16
You do the loving acts you were saved to do. Gal 5:6
Through the love/works He changes you. Eph 4:11-17
The change is as mature as Christ was.... eph 4 again.
That person is in fellowship with God 1 john 1:3-7,
And he Knows God so he does not sin any longer 1 j 3:6

Note, knows Him in 3:6 is akin to in fellowship with Him in 1:4ish.

You don't stop sinning when you are saved, that is your process to change your life.

You have been changed by God when you are mature, and that change is Godly, and you do not do sins anylonger. That is the post conjunction conclusion of 1 john 3:9 OU hamartano. NOT SIN AGAIN.

The thing i bolded is kind of unclear to me. Is it saying that when we are making an effort to live the life like Jesus we will be forgiven and taught on the way?

 

[TannarDarr]

I think you mean what you just quoted me saying. We all speak in different mannerism. Repentance = confess and stand back up. I use to be like you too, so I know where you are coming from.

No, confession and repent are not the same thing. No more than frozen coke is ice cream.

Check out the Greek for Repent. Then find confession anywhere in the NT and see what that word means. They are not related.

Oh yeah, and you don't know me, so you have no idea how I am. You should get to know me before you assume things.

 

[TannarDarr]

People call me religious for the same reason, LOL! I guess my conclusion is "IF you are making an effort to not sin, you will be forgiven. If you purposely act impure, imperfect, wicked, then you cannot be forgiven"

Repent = change direction.

Μεταμὲλομαι, the focus of our study today, is a compound word made from the preposition μετὰ(Strong's #3326) which means "a change in location or circumstance," when used in a compound word, and μὲλω (Strong's #3199) meaning, "to care, to be concerned for." In Classical Greek, μεταμὲλομαιmeans both to feel sorrow and to change one's mind. In the Old Testament Septuagint, its usage means "to regret," or to express "sorrow."

Confess = uhh confess.
Homologeo
I'm not Greek scholar but homo is together homogenous, homosexual, Crudely "LIKE"

1. 
   [*=left]to say the same thing as another, i.e. to agree with, assent
   
   [*=left]to concede
   
   1. 
      [*=left]not to refuse, to promise
      
      [*=left]not to deny
      
      1. 
         [*=left]to confess
         
         [*=left]declare
         
         [*=left]to confess, i.e. to admit or declare one's self guilty of what one is accused of
         
         

 

[Imperfect]

Yes, there are people who go to hell for continuing to sin, even as God will forgive anything except denying that God is God, or blasphemy. Scripture says this about it:
1Co_5:11 But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer who is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person.

Notice that God doesn't say it is about people who do any of these things, but about people who habitually do them so they can be identified with that sin.

It is amazing how much you pray every day! When we receive the Holy Spirit, we receive an awareness of God in our life. There are people who look at the ocean, or a tree, or grass growing without knowing that God created it and even if they enjoy the sight of these things, thanking God just isn't part of their enjoyment. After you become aware of God, He isn't really ever completely apart from your being as a person. Even your awareness of God is a sort of prayer.

its crazy i just seen this thread and it was made yesterday. perfect timing because i have a question.

i have been celibate for quite a while (at least to my standards), over a year, but during this time, i had slipped a couple times and every time i felt terrible, prayed heavily for forgiveness and strength to overcome the temptation. to say the least, i have come a long way, but still not perfect. i even stopped smoking and drinking, but i drink occasionally but i never get sloppy. occasionally like a couple times a year.

so to get on with the question-
last night i was with an old friend of mine, her sister, and her friend. they offered to buy me a drink so i got a tall boy, thats the tall can of beer. it was some lime flavored bud light or something, wasnt anything heavy but im a light weight so it had its impact. and i hit their cigarette a couple times while i was drinking with them. i felt terrible inside during all of this which i think was the spirit. but i been so secluded for so long that i just wanted to get out and enjoy myself for once.

but as the night came to an end, i went to my friends room with her, we didnt have sex, but i stuck it in but i actually couldnt physically continue, if you know what i mean, which im certain it was a mixture of my conscious and alcohol. but she did give me some fellatio briefly.

my daughter stayed with my mother while i was gone last night and when i got back this morning, she woke up and told me that "the scary monsters ate you last night and they were eating your head" she said she was inside and she was crying.. i said they ate me? she said "yea, the scary monsters were eating you outside over your friends and i was here inside crying." i asked my mother if she was crying last night, she said no so thats how i know she was telling me about her dream.

so 1st part of my question, i have it really made me wonder if Jesus gave my daughter a vision in her dream about what happened to me spiritually last night? and 2nd, did i cross the lines last night and will i be damned for what i did? this has been weighing me down all day.

 

[TannarDarr]

The thing i bolded is kind of unclear to me. Is it saying that when we are making an effort to live the life like Jesus we will be forgiven and taught on the way?

On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.1 j 2:8 nasb

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]1Jo 1:6
[/TD]
[TD]If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
To really condense the thought, John says if you want to be in fellowship with Him but still walk in the dark, you are mistaken.

THEN tells the people him and his coterie were writing to, that they are nearly there, they need a little more darkness passed away...

But, even though they weren't there yet, they still had Christ as their forgiving mediator. 1:9.
[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]1Jo 1:9
[/TD]
[TD]If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
John and his boys wrote this to help those they wrote be in fellowship with Him.

Apparently they knew Christ as He would mediate, but they weren't yet in fellowship with HIM. John wanted them to be in fellowship and they still had darkness that needed to be removed.

You need to read the scripture and test your presuppositions. Most people read it to prove their presuppositions.

 

[cfultz3]

No, confession and repent are not the same thing. No more than frozen coke is ice cream.

Check out the Greek for Repent. Then find confession anywhere in the NT and see what that word means. They are not related.

Oh yeah, and you don't know me, so you have no idea how I am. You should get to know me before you assume things.

Confess = Father, I have sinned against you.
Repent = Father, I will turn from it.

Repentance wikipedia = Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs.[1] It generally involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life. The practice of repentance plays an important role in the soteriological doctrines of the world's major religions where it is considered necessary for the attainment of salvation. In religious contexts it often involves an act of confession to a spiritual elder (such as a monk or priest). This typically includes an admission of guilt, a promise or resolve not to repeat the offense; an attempt to make restitution for the wrong, or in some way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible. Within a secular context repentance may form part of the process of psychological healing that takes place during a course of psychotherapy.


But I do know you well enough to say that you have a chip on your shoulder. I use to have that same chip in thinking I knew everything and it was my holy commission to correct what I thought people were saying before I asked them what was the meaning of the words they used.

 

[TannarDarr]

Confess = Father, I have sinned against you.
Repent = Father, I will turn from it.

Repentance wikipedia = Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs.[1] It generally involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life. The practice of repentance plays an important role in the soteriological doctrines of the world's major religions where it is considered necessary for the attainment of salvation. In religious contexts it often involves an act of confession to a spiritual elder (such as a monk or priest). This typically includes an admission of guilt, a promise or resolve not to repeat the offense; an attempt to make restitution for the wrong, or in some way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible. Within a secular context repentance may form part of the process of psychological healing that takes place during a course of psychotherapy.


But I do know you well enough to say that you have a chip on your shoulder. I use to have that same chip in thinking I knew everything and it was my holy commission to correct what I thought people were saying before I asked them what was the meaning of the words they used.

No, repent is Father I HAVE turned from it. Language is language. Rewriting to suit our needs doesn't do much.

I have no chip on my shoulder, but I assume that because I don't' let folks claim to know me who don't, and put me in a box they dreamed up is a chip, then sure, I have one. Is that the thing around here? If people don't agree with you rag on them or ban them etc???

I'm about the exegetics. If I'm wrong, the faster I find out the better. I've been wrong several times and had to change. Do you remember the last time you were wrong?

Repent of your sins, doesn't mean,,, want to hope to repent from your sins. It's a command to change, more than want to change...

The instant you stop imposing things you don't like about yourself on me, the faster we can get past your imagined chip and converse.

 

[TannarDarr]

Confess = Father, I have sinned against you.
Repent = Father, I will turn from it.

Repentance wikipedia = Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs.[1] It generally involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life. The practice of repentance plays an important role in the soteriological doctrines of the world's major religions where it is considered necessary for the attainment of salvation. In religious contexts it often involves an act of confession to a spiritual elder (such as a monk or priest). This typically includes an admission of guilt, a promise or resolve not to repeat the offense; an attempt to make restitution for the wrong, or in some way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible. Within a secular context repentance may form part of the process of psychological healing that takes place during a course of psychotherapy.


But I do know you well enough to say that you have a chip on your shoulder. I use to have that same chip in thinking I knew everything and it was my holy commission to correct what I thought people were saying before I asked them what was the meaning of the words they used.

No, repent is Father I HAVE turned from it. Language is language. Rewriting to suit our needs doesn't do much.

I have no chip on my shoulder, but I assume that because I don't' let folks claim to know me who don't, and put me in a box they dreamed up is a chip, then sure, I have one. Is that the thing around here? If people don't agree with you rag on them or ban them etc???

I'm about the exegetics. If I'm wrong, the faster I find out the better. I've been wrong several times and had to change. Do you remember the last time you were wrong?

Repent of your sins, doesn't mean,,, want to hope to repent from your sins. It's a command to change, more than want to change...

The instant you stop imposing things you don't like about yourself on me, the faster we can get past your imagined chip and converse.

I do have a problem in this conversation. When myths and legends are formed of words in the Bible to the point that they change meaning from the message, you crossed a line in "study". If someone doesn't question it and have a conversation about it, the myth perpetuates.

Another example of Christian word myth, is Agape. That is a word that has lost all meaning and become some fantasy word remade for public consumption.

Now, if you wish to engage in the exegetics and show me to be wrong I'm here. If you wish to sit there and tell me I have a chip on my shoulder because I don't let you put me in a box of your making there is no need for us to address each other. I'm trying to be civil and have a civil discussion. You guys..... seem to want folks to agree with you. What good is your belief, if you can't test it and hone it/temper it through other people's understandings.

 

[cfultz3]

Part of maturation is to fail and still sin, right?

Paul discussed the PERFECT and the IMPERFECT believers. He discussed them with words like meat, and milk,. But, even the milk still had Christ as mediator.

You say that part of maturation is "to fail and still sin" and at first I agreed. But, having thought about this, I will have to say that "we sometimes fall in our walk before God". Sin is not a part of our maturation, but during our maturation, we do sometimes fall (sin). But, it is not a requirement that we must do so that we can grow in faith.

All, both those who are "fathers" and "young man", have Christ as their Mediator. But, when it said that we are to be perfect (undivided in our love (agape = love of esteem)), it was not said to only the matured in Christ, it was said to all that we are to be perfect like our Father in Heaven is perfect. In that He let it rain and raises the sun on both good and evil ones. To love undividedly is how we are to be perfect. But, as long as we are on Faith's course, we will fall, but it is not required, as in saying "is to".

 

[TannarDarr]

Oh, yeah, I admit STRONGS definitions aren't exactly the Pinnacle of superior Greek work books, but I'm betting it beats the heck outta wikipedia where anyone with a grudge on their shoulder can alter any sumamary they wish.

 

[cfultz3]

No, repent is Father I HAVE turned from it. Language is language. Rewriting to suit our needs doesn't do much.

Is that the thing around here? If people don't agree with you rag on them or ban them etc???

Repent = turn around, change mind. "Father, I will turn from it" = "Father, I agree with you and I will turn from it".

What you said in that second paragraph speaks your purpose.

 

[cfultz3]

Oh, yeah, I admit STRONGS definitions aren't exactly the Pinnacle of superior Greek work books, but I'm betting it beats the heck outta wikipedia where anyone with a grudge on their shoulder can alter any sumamary they wish.

Now, why would I have a grudge on my shoulder? Your holiness quickly turned into bitterness.

 

[Imperfect]

its crazy i just seen this thread and it was made yesterday. perfect timing because i have a question.

i have been celibate for quite a while (at least to my standards), over a year, but during this time, i had slipped a couple times and every time i felt terrible, prayed heavily for forgiveness and strength to overcome the temptation. to say the least, i have come a long way, but still not perfect. i even stopped smoking and drinking, but i drink occasionally but i never get sloppy. occasionally like a couple times a year.

so to get on with the question-
last night i was with an old friend of mine, her sister, and her friend. they offered to buy me a drink so i got a tall boy, thats the tall can of beer. it was some lime flavored bud light or something, wasnt anything heavy but im a light weight so it had its impact. and i hit their cigarette a couple times while i was drinking with them. i felt terrible inside during all of this which i think was the spirit. but i been so secluded for so long that i just wanted to get out and enjoy myself for once.

but as the night came to an end, i went to my friends room with her, we didnt have sex, but i stuck it in but i actually couldnt physically continue, if you know what i mean, which im certain it was a mixture of my conscious and alcohol. but she did give me some fellatio briefly.

my daughter stayed with my mother while i was gone last night and when i got back this morning, she woke up and told me that "the scary monsters ate you last night and they were eating your head" she said she was inside and she was crying.. i said they ate me? she said "yea, the scary monsters were eating you outside over your friends and i was here inside crying." i asked my mother if she was crying last night, she said no so thats how i know she was telling me about her dream.

so 1st part of my question, i have it really made me wonder if Jesus gave my daughter a vision in her dream about what happened to me spiritually last night? and 2nd, did i cross the lines last night and will i be damned for what i did? this has been weighing me down all day.

can somebody lend me a hand here?

 

[TannarDarr]

You say that part of maturation is "to fail and still sin" and at first I agreed. But, having thought about this, I will have to say that "we sometimes fall in our walk before God". Sin is not a part of our maturation, but during our maturation, we do sometimes fall (sin). But, it is not a requirement that we must do so that we can grow in faith.

All, both those who are "fathers" and "young man", have Christ as their Mediator. But, when it said that we are to be perfect (undivided in our love (agape = love of esteem)), it was not said to only the matured in Christ, it was said to all that we are to be perfect like our Father in Heaven is perfect. In that He let it rain and raises the sun on both good and evil ones. To love undividedly is how we are to be perfect. But, as long as we are on Faith's course, we will fall, but it is not required, as in saying "is to".

Where do you get agape = love of esteem.

I'll agree you don't HAVE to still sin to become mature, but, I don't' know anyone who was fully mature from the moment of their "altar call".

"TO BE PERFECT" wasn't said to the mature at all, they are PERFECT by definition. They don't need to BE perfect, they ARE there. You help those to BE perfect who aren't there yet.

Yes, your matthew 5 summary is about what I said it was. Close enough. You are to be perfect as God was, means you are to love even your enemies AND PROVIDE for them, even as HE does.

Being mature doesn't have anything to do with making yourself not sin. that seems to be how you want to view it. You aren't perfect/mature because you don't sin, you don't sin because you are perfect/mature.

John said he walked in the light AS GOD/JESUS does. Do you, with your theological bent on things, suggest that JESUS sinned? Because if you wish to claim HE did not sin, then to walk in the light AS HE DOES would mean that person wasn't sinning as well.

Go to chapter 3. If you still sin you don't know Him and haven't yet MET Him. How can you be in fellowship with Him, walk in the light as HE does, and still sin?

I think your view needs to come to grips with the fact you can be under Grace and not spiritually mature. AND that there is more to maturity than "being saved" and not sinning.

Col 2:11 shows maturity is something HE does to you. He removes that sinful nature. You don't' over come it.

HE gives you a new heart and mind. You don't change them.

All we have to do is walk down the path He set before you. And do it with our heart and sincerity behind it. HE does the changing of you as you walk. Synergism, you have to walk and persevere and HE has to change you.