Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?
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Who needs decaf?
He said Jesus was killed in the city which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.
Jesus was not killed in a physical city.
He was led outside the gates; (major qualifier there for anyone noticing).........
The prophet even gives a hint - "spiritually"; I know it's hard to reckon for some.
Who needs decaf? Some need deconstruction of the prophecies. - Just so they can understand the difference between material and spiritual. (Though the prophet makes that very clear)
- - The great 'city' that rules over the kings of the earth?- (Hint,hint)
He said Jesus was killed in the city which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.
Jesus was not killed in a physical city.
He was led outside the gates; (major qualifier there for anyone noticing).........
The prophet even gives a hint - "spiritually"; I know it's hard to reckon for some.
Who needs decaf? Some need deconstruction of the prophecies. - Just so they can understand the difference between material and spiritual. (Though the prophet makes that very clear)
- - The great 'city' that rules over the kings of the earth?- (Hint,hint)
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you're kidding, right?
you have the symbolic names for 1st century Jerusalem meaning it's a figurative city?
goodness gracious Rick.
come on.
the city is called by figurative names.
it's not saying it's a figurative city.
and what's the hint hint?
are you now making the figurative city a real city - like Rome?
or is city now a figurative name for Church? or World?
the contortions to make this anything other than what it plainly WAS is amazing.
New International Version
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city--which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where also their Lord was crucified.
New Living Translation
And their bodies will lie in the main street of Jerusalem, the city that is figuratively called "Sodom" and "Egypt," the city where their Lord was crucified.
English Standard Version
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
you have the symbolic names for 1st century Jerusalem meaning it's a figurative city?
goodness gracious Rick.
come on.
the city is called by figurative names.
it's not saying it's a figurative city.
and what's the hint hint?
are you now making the figurative city a real city - like Rome?
or is city now a figurative name for Church? or World?
the contortions to make this anything other than what it plainly WAS is amazing.
New International Version
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city--which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where also their Lord was crucified.
New Living Translation
And their bodies will lie in the main street of Jerusalem, the city that is figuratively called "Sodom" and "Egypt," the city where their Lord was crucified.
English Standard Version
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
Agree , The great 'city' that rules over the kings of the earth is not Jerusalem now nor in 70 AD if Jerusalem was thee great city that rule over the kings why was it under roman authority? roman republic ? Thee great city that has been destroy twice ? besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times ?
does not fit great city at all from its history
God bless
does not fit great city at all from its history
God bless
Agree , The great 'city' that rules over the kings of the earth is not Jerusalem now nor in 70 AD if Jerusalem was thee great city that rule over the kings why was it under roman authority? roman republic ? Thee great city that has been destroy twice ? besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times ?
does not fit great city at all from its history
God bless
does not fit great city at all from its history
God bless
Joshua 1:4
Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates--all the Hittite country--to the Mediterranean Sea in the west.
2 Samuel 8:2
David also defeated the Moabites. He made them lie down on the ground and measured them off with a length of cord. Every two lengths of them were put to death, and the third length was allowed to live. So the Moabites became subject to David and brought him tribute.
and now the temple:
1 Kings 3:13
Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for--both wealth and honor--so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings
1 Kings 4:21
And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These countries brought tribute and were Solomon's subjects all his life.
who was the next King to receive the Throne after Solomon?
........
which city is Jeremiah describing?
Rome?
the world?
or does he actually tells us?
does he say she was once great among the nations?
look at Young's Literal.
LAMENTATIONS 1
New International Version
How deserted lies the city, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations! She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.
New Living Translation
Jerusalem, once so full of people, is now deserted. She who was once great among the nations now sits alone like a widow. Once the queen of all the earth, she is now a slave.
English Standard Version
How lonely sits the city that was full of people! How like a widow has she become, she who was great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces has become a slave.
New American Standard Bible
How lonely sits the city That was full of people! She has become like a widow Who was once great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces Has become a forced laborer!
King James Bible
How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!
Holman Christian Standard Bible
How she sits alone, the city once crowded with people! She who was great among the nations has become like a widow. The princess among the provinces has been put to forced labor.
International Standard Version
How lonely she lies, the city that thronged with people! Like a widow she has become, this great one among nations! The princess among provinces has become a vassal.
NET Bible
Alas! The city once full of people now sits all alone! The prominent lady among the nations has become a widow! The princess who once ruled the provinces has become a forced laborer!
GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Look how deserted Jerusalem is! Once the city was crowded with people. Once it was important among the nations. Now it is a widow. Once it was a princess among the provinces. Now it does forced labor.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Aleph How does the city sit solitary, that was full of people! The great one among the nations is become as a widow; the princess of provinces is become tributary.
King James 2000 Bible
How does the city sit lovely, that was full of people! how has she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how has she become a slave!
American King James Version
How does the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!
American Standard Version
How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! She is become as a widow, that was great among the nations! She that was a princess among the provinces is become tributary!
Douay-Rheims Bible
Aleph. How doth the city sit solitary that was full of people! how is the mistress of the Gentiles become as a widow: the princes of provinces made tributary!
Darby Bible Translation
How doth the city sit solitary that was full of people! She that was great among the nations is become as a widow; the princess among the provinces is become tributary!
English Revised Version
How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!
Webster's Bible Translation
How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary.
World English Bible
How the city sits solitary, that was full of people! She has become as a widow, who was great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces is become tributary!
Young's Literal Translation
How hath she sat alone, The city abounding with people! She hath been as a widow, The mighty among nations! Princes among provinces, She hath become tributary!
....
1 Kings 10:10
And she gave the king 120 talents of gold, large quantities of spices, and precious stones. Never again were so many spices brought in as those the queen of Sheba gave to King Solomon.
1 Kings 10:25
Year after year, everyone who came brought a gift--articles of silver and gold, robes, weapons and spices, and horses and mules.
2 Chronicles 9:14
not including the revenues brought in by merchants and traders. Also all the kings of Arabia and the governors of the territories brought gold and silver to Solomon.
2 Chronicles 32:23
Many brought offerings to Jerusalem for the LORD and valuable gifts for Hezekiah king of Judah. From then on he was highly regarded by all the nations.
etc.
lololol.
so the city is figurative?
(am i dreaming here? i can not believe i am hearing this from Christians).
no rickster...
the titles Sodom and Egypt are figurative.
figurative terms for apostate Jerusalem and apostates who refused the New Covenant.
just like Paul uses Hagar and Sarah ALLEGORICALLY - talking about 2 covenants and 2 cities.
was this figurative too?
Jesus foretells of a figurative mystical Jerusalem-non-city destruction which might be a one-world-religion-church 2000 years in the future type thing?
pur-double-eeze.
Luke 21
Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
this'll make Still bristle, but here goes:
did this really happen?
so the city is figurative?
(am i dreaming here? i can not believe i am hearing this from Christians).
no rickster...
the titles Sodom and Egypt are figurative.
figurative terms for apostate Jerusalem and apostates who refused the New Covenant.
just like Paul uses Hagar and Sarah ALLEGORICALLY - talking about 2 covenants and 2 cities.
was this figurative too?
Jesus foretells of a figurative mystical Jerusalem-non-city destruction which might be a one-world-religion-church 2000 years in the future type thing?
pur-double-eeze.
Luke 21
Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
this'll make Still bristle
, but here goes:did this really happen?
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Sorry Rick but God also included pastures lands given to the Levites as part of the cities.
IE Numbers 35
35 On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho, the Lord said to Moses, 2 “Command the Israelites to give the Levites towns to live in from the inheritance the Israelites will possess. And give them pasturelands around the towns. 3 Then they will have towns to live in and pasturelands for the cattle they own and all their other animals.4 “The pasturelands around the towns that you give the Levites will extend a thousand cubits[a] from the town wall. 5 Outside the town, measure two thousand cubits[b] on the east side, two thousand on the south side, two thousand on the west and two thousand on the north, with the town in the center. They will have this area as pastureland for the towns.
This means that that the area around the city included almost 3/4 of a mile in each direction.Just because it happened outside the city walls does NOT MEAN He was outside the city.
IE Numbers 35
35 On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho, the Lord said to Moses, 2 “Command the Israelites to give the Levites towns to live in from the inheritance the Israelites will possess. And give them pasturelands around the towns. 3 Then they will have towns to live in and pasturelands for the cattle they own and all their other animals.4 “The pasturelands around the towns that you give the Levites will extend a thousand cubits[a] from the town wall. 5 Outside the town, measure two thousand cubits[b] on the east side, two thousand on the south side, two thousand on the west and two thousand on the north, with the town in the center. They will have this area as pastureland for the towns.
This means that that the area around the city included almost 3/4 of a mile in each direction.Just because it happened outside the city walls does NOT MEAN He was outside the city.
outside the gates/wall means outside the city.
King James Bible
Six Cities of Refuge
(Numbers 35:6-34; Deuteronomy 4:41-43; Deuteronomy 19:1-14)
1The LORD also spake unto Joshua, saying, 2Speak to the children of Israel, saying, Appoint out for you cities of refuge, whereof I spake unto you by the hand of Moses: 3That the slayer that killeth any person unawares and unwittingly may flee thither: and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood. 4And when he that doth flee unto one of those cities shall stand at the entering of the gate of the city, and shall declare his cause in the ears of the elders of that city,they shall take him into the city unto them, and give him a place,that he may dwell among them. 5And if the avenger of blood pursue after him, then they shall not deliver the slayer up into his hand; because he smote his neighbour unwittingly, and hated him not beforetime. 6 And he shall dwell in that city,until he stand before the congregation for judgment, and until the death of the high priest that shall be in those days: then shall the slayer return, and come unto his own city, and unto his own house, unto the city from whence he fled.
7And they appointed Kedesh in Galilee in mount Naphtali, and Shechem in mount Ephraim, and Kirjatharba, which is Hebron, in the mountain of Judah. 8And on the other side Jordan by Jericho eastward, they assigned Bezer in the wilderness upon the plain out of the tribe of Reuben, and Ramoth in Gilead out of the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan out of the tribe of Manasseh. 9These were the cities appointed for all the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them, that whosoever killeth any person at unawares might flee thither, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood, until he stood before the congregation.
Jeremiah & King david in psalms explain it clearly re-post
Only way you are in Jerusalem is inside her gates jeremiah explains this also psalms and many other verses
Jeremiah 17:19 Thus said the LORD unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in,and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem;
Psalms 122:1
King James Bible
Let Us Go to the Lord's House!
1{A Song of degrees of David.} I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD.
2Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
3Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
4Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.
5For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.
6Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
7PEACE BE WITHIN THY WALLS, AND PROSPERITY WITHIN THY PALACES.
8For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.
9Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.
Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together God bless
The Lord clearly explain this to Joshua how this works, scripture states Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem walls. As we have a understandning of scripture in Jeremiah and psalms that jerusalem is a city that is compact together only way you are inside the city its by the gates of the city also in John 19:20 when he was crucified was near the city . Now what is called sodom and egypt must be outside the wall of Jerusalem
John 19:20
New American Standard Bible
Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
Ariel82: if you can't establish where Jesus was cruxified, further discussion would be like banging your head on a steering wheel, except with less results.
vic1980: sister he was cruxified at Golgotha that is outside of Jerusalem
Matthew 27:33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,
God bless you all i'm outta here .
King James Bible
Six Cities of Refuge
(Numbers 35:6-34; Deuteronomy 4:41-43; Deuteronomy 19:1-14)
1The LORD also spake unto Joshua, saying, 2Speak to the children of Israel, saying, Appoint out for you cities of refuge, whereof I spake unto you by the hand of Moses: 3That the slayer that killeth any person unawares and unwittingly may flee thither: and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood. 4And when he that doth flee unto one of those cities shall stand at the entering of the gate of the city, and shall declare his cause in the ears of the elders of that city,they shall take him into the city unto them, and give him a place,that he may dwell among them. 5And if the avenger of blood pursue after him, then they shall not deliver the slayer up into his hand; because he smote his neighbour unwittingly, and hated him not beforetime. 6 And he shall dwell in that city,until he stand before the congregation for judgment, and until the death of the high priest that shall be in those days: then shall the slayer return, and come unto his own city, and unto his own house, unto the city from whence he fled.
7And they appointed Kedesh in Galilee in mount Naphtali, and Shechem in mount Ephraim, and Kirjatharba, which is Hebron, in the mountain of Judah. 8And on the other side Jordan by Jericho eastward, they assigned Bezer in the wilderness upon the plain out of the tribe of Reuben, and Ramoth in Gilead out of the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan out of the tribe of Manasseh. 9These were the cities appointed for all the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them, that whosoever killeth any person at unawares might flee thither, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood, until he stood before the congregation.
Jeremiah & King david in psalms explain it clearly re-post
Only way you are in Jerusalem is inside her gates jeremiah explains this also psalms and many other verses
Jeremiah 17:19 Thus said the LORD unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in,and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem;
Psalms 122:1
King James Bible
Let Us Go to the Lord's House!
1{A Song of degrees of David.} I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD.
2Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
3Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
4Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.
5For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.
6Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
7PEACE BE WITHIN THY WALLS, AND PROSPERITY WITHIN THY PALACES.
8For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.
9Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.
Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together God bless
The Lord clearly explain this to Joshua how this works, scripture states Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem walls. As we have a understandning of scripture in Jeremiah and psalms that jerusalem is a city that is compact together only way you are inside the city its by the gates of the city also in John 19:20 when he was crucified was near the city . Now what is called sodom and egypt must be outside the wall of Jerusalem
John 19:20
New American Standard Bible
Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
Ariel82: if you can't establish where Jesus was cruxified, further discussion would be like banging your head on a steering wheel, except with less results.
vic1980: sister he was cruxified at Golgotha that is outside of Jerusalem
Matthew 27:33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,
God bless you all i'm outta here .
[]In brackets are my comments[]
Luke 16
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Unjust Steward
16 He also said to His disciples: “There was a certain rich man[God] who had a steward [earthly Israel], and an accusation was brought to him that this man was wasting his goods[God had given earthly Israel all the light]. [SUP]2 [/SUP]So he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship [we are all called to give an account for what we've done], for you can no longer be steward.’[earthly Israel rejected God and made their proselytes twice the sons of hell as themselves, Matt. 23:15]
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Then the steward said within himself, ‘What shall I do? For my master is taking the stewardship away from me. I cannot dig; I am ashamed to beg.[WWWHAT? no repentance?][Too proud to ask God for forgiveness] [SUP]4 [/SUP]I have resolved what to do, that when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.’[ I will trust in my ability and rely on other men]
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“So he called every one of his master’s debtors to him, and said to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ [SUP]6 [/SUP]And he said, ‘A hundred measures of oil.’ So he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and sit down quickly and write fifty.’ [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then he said to another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ So he said, ‘A hundred measures of wheat.’ And he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and write eighty.’[I will make deals with men so when my time is up and I'm cast out of my office, I'll still be able to maintain my status among the men I did business with, and they'll sustain my wealth] [SUP]8 [/SUP]So the master commended the unjust steward because he had dealt shrewdly. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in their generation than the sons of light. [the ungodly gain their wealth through dishonest deals and ways, while the Godly trust in Christ]
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“And I say to you [Christ's disciples], make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon [make friends with those who use the worldly system to make proper use of their riches for God][be shrewd for the right reasons], that when you fail [when your stewardship is up, when you die and called to account], they may receive you into an everlasting home. [That you may be received into heaven, the "they", plural form was used to correlate with the story of the parable in verse 4] [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon [worldly things, money, responsibility etc.], who will commit to your trust the true riches?[Heavenly Riches and responsibilities] [SUP]12 [/SUP]And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s [God, Everything belongs to God], who will give you what is your own [God's riches once given to us, the riches of heaven, considered as our "own", what could be ours in Christ]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”[who and what do you seek, status, riches, piety? or Christ and His way?]
Luke 16
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Unjust Steward
16 He also said to His disciples: “There was a certain rich man[God] who had a steward [earthly Israel], and an accusation was brought to him that this man was wasting his goods[God had given earthly Israel all the light]. [SUP]2 [/SUP]So he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship [we are all called to give an account for what we've done], for you can no longer be steward.’[earthly Israel rejected God and made their proselytes twice the sons of hell as themselves, Matt. 23:15]
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Then the steward said within himself, ‘What shall I do? For my master is taking the stewardship away from me. I cannot dig; I am ashamed to beg.[WWWHAT? no repentance?][Too proud to ask God for forgiveness] [SUP]4 [/SUP]I have resolved what to do, that when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.’[ I will trust in my ability and rely on other men]
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“So he called every one of his master’s debtors to him, and said to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ [SUP]6 [/SUP]And he said, ‘A hundred measures of oil.’ So he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and sit down quickly and write fifty.’ [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then he said to another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ So he said, ‘A hundred measures of wheat.’ And he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and write eighty.’[I will make deals with men so when my time is up and I'm cast out of my office, I'll still be able to maintain my status among the men I did business with, and they'll sustain my wealth] [SUP]8 [/SUP]So the master commended the unjust steward because he had dealt shrewdly. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in their generation than the sons of light. [the ungodly gain their wealth through dishonest deals and ways, while the Godly trust in Christ]
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“And I say to you [Christ's disciples], make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon [make friends with those who use the worldly system to make proper use of their riches for God][be shrewd for the right reasons], that when you fail [when your stewardship is up, when you die and called to account], they may receive you into an everlasting home. [That you may be received into heaven, the "they", plural form was used to correlate with the story of the parable in verse 4] [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon [worldly things, money, responsibility etc.], who will commit to your trust the true riches?[Heavenly Riches and responsibilities] [SUP]12 [/SUP]And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s [God, Everything belongs to God], who will give you what is your own [God's riches once given to us, the riches of heaven, considered as our "own", what could be ours in Christ]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”[who and what do you seek, status, riches, piety? or Christ and His way?]
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suffered without the gate; that is, of Jerusalem: the Syriac version reads, "without the city"; meaning Jerusalem; which answered to the camp of Israel, in the wilderness; without which, the bodies of beasts were burnt, on the day of atonement: for so say (z) the Jews;
"as was the camp in the wilderness, so was the camp in Jerusalem; from Jerusalem to the mountain of the house, was the camp of Israel; from the mountain of the house to the gate of Nicanor, was the camp of the Levites; and from thence forward, the camp of the Shechinah, or the divine Majesty:''
and so Josephus (a) renders the phrase, without the camp, in Leviticus 16:27 by ; "in the suburbs"; that is, of Jerusalem, where Christ suffered,
(z) T. Bab. Zebachim, fol. 116. 2. Bemidbar Rabba, sect. 7. fol. 188. 3. 4. Maimon. Beth Habbechira, c. 7. sect. 11. (a) Antiqu. l. 3. c. 10. sect. 3. - Gill
......
Suffered (ἔπαθεν)
Used of Christ in Hebrews, 1st Peter, and Acts, but not in Paul, who, however, has παθήματα τοῦ Χριστοῦ sufferings of Christ, 2 Corinthians 1:5; Philippians 3:10 (αὐτοῦ).
Without the gate (ἔξω τῆς πύλης)
Gate is substituted for camp (Hebrews 13:11), as more appropriate to a city. - Vincent
.....
The "camp" here refers to the time when the Israelites were in the wilderness, and lived in encampments. The same custom was observed after the temple was built by conveying the body of the animal slain for a sin-offering on the great day of atonement beyond the walls of Jerusalem to be consumed there. "Whatever," says Grotius, "was not lawful to be done in the camp, afterward was not lawful to be done in the city." - Barnes - Hebrews 13
.....
without the camp—in which were the tabernacle and Levitical priests and legal worshippers, during Israel's journey through the wilderness; replaced afterwards by Jerusalem (containing the temple), outside of whose walls Jesus was crucified. - JFBBC Hebrews 13
....
Verses 11, 12. - For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the High Priest for sin (i.e. as sin offerings; for this sense of περὶ ἁμαρτίας, cf. Hebrews 10:6), are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered without the gate. The allusion is to the sin offerings on the Day of Atonement - the bullock for the high priest, and the goat for the people. Of the flesh of some sacrifices of ordinary peace offerings - the people ate, being themselves "partakers of the altar;" that of ordinary sin offerings was partaken of by the priests alone: but the special sin offerings of the great day, which typified complete atonement, and the blood of which alone was taken into the holiest of all, were consumed entirely by fire without the camp, and not even the priests might eat of them (Leviticus 16:27, etc.). This part of the ceremonial, not mentioned in Hebrews 9, completed the symbolism of the Day of Atonement. It not only typified (together with the other goat that was set free) the entire removal of sin from the congregation; it also signified that the Law itself made none, not even the priests, partakers in such complete atonement. Christ fulfilled the first significance of this type by suffering "without the gate;" the Jews, in casting him out from their midst, were the unconscious instruments of his so fulfilling it; he thus bare and took away the sins of all outside the holy city which represented the Israel of God. But further, in him is supplied what under the Law was wanting; for of him, the true Sin Offering, we may all partake: he declared this himself when he spoke of our caring his flesh and drinking his blood - in which words the mention of the blood as well as of the flesh is peculiarly significant; for of the blood, which was "given upon the altar to make atonement for sins" (Leviticus 17:11), none might in any case under the Law partake; but of him we even drink the blood, in token that atonement is completed, and that we are now full partakers in all its benefits. The only seeming discrepancy between the type and the Antitype, as above set forth, is in the order of the different parts of the old ceremonial. The sin offering was slain in the camp before it was burnt outside, whereas Christ fulfilled both these parts of the type by one act upon the cross outside. Again, the blood of the sin offering was taken into the holy of holies before the body was consumed by fire outside, whereas Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary "with his own blood" after he had suffered "without the gate." But the general significance of the symbolism in its several parts is not thus disturbed; it is viewed as a whole, and all parts of it are found to be fulfilled - Pulpit Commentary - Hebrews 13
-----
how anyone can even come close to changing the whole event and trying to take away what was done according to everything God had revealed and planned through the Law....by trying to mystify this Sacred Event and insert some blasphemous 2000 year GAP and make it anything or any place other than what it was, and clearly without question recorded forever....well.....
i don`t have any idea what to say.
MAKE THIS ROME OR THE UN OR EU if you want to.
i dont know what faith you claim to belong to
"as was the camp in the wilderness, so was the camp in Jerusalem; from Jerusalem to the mountain of the house, was the camp of Israel; from the mountain of the house to the gate of Nicanor, was the camp of the Levites; and from thence forward, the camp of the Shechinah, or the divine Majesty:''
and so Josephus (a) renders the phrase, without the camp, in Leviticus 16:27 by ; "in the suburbs"; that is, of Jerusalem, where Christ suffered,
(z) T. Bab. Zebachim, fol. 116. 2. Bemidbar Rabba, sect. 7. fol. 188. 3. 4. Maimon. Beth Habbechira, c. 7. sect. 11. (a) Antiqu. l. 3. c. 10. sect. 3. - Gill
......
Suffered (ἔπαθεν)
Used of Christ in Hebrews, 1st Peter, and Acts, but not in Paul, who, however, has παθήματα τοῦ Χριστοῦ sufferings of Christ, 2 Corinthians 1:5; Philippians 3:10 (αὐτοῦ).
Without the gate (ἔξω τῆς πύλης)
Gate is substituted for camp (Hebrews 13:11), as more appropriate to a city. - Vincent
.....
The "camp" here refers to the time when the Israelites were in the wilderness, and lived in encampments. The same custom was observed after the temple was built by conveying the body of the animal slain for a sin-offering on the great day of atonement beyond the walls of Jerusalem to be consumed there. "Whatever," says Grotius, "was not lawful to be done in the camp, afterward was not lawful to be done in the city." - Barnes - Hebrews 13
.....
without the camp—in which were the tabernacle and Levitical priests and legal worshippers, during Israel's journey through the wilderness; replaced afterwards by Jerusalem (containing the temple), outside of whose walls Jesus was crucified. - JFBBC Hebrews 13
....
Verses 11, 12. - For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the High Priest for sin (i.e. as sin offerings; for this sense of περὶ ἁμαρτίας, cf. Hebrews 10:6), are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered without the gate. The allusion is to the sin offerings on the Day of Atonement - the bullock for the high priest, and the goat for the people. Of the flesh of some sacrifices of ordinary peace offerings - the people ate, being themselves "partakers of the altar;" that of ordinary sin offerings was partaken of by the priests alone: but the special sin offerings of the great day, which typified complete atonement, and the blood of which alone was taken into the holiest of all, were consumed entirely by fire without the camp, and not even the priests might eat of them (Leviticus 16:27, etc.). This part of the ceremonial, not mentioned in Hebrews 9, completed the symbolism of the Day of Atonement. It not only typified (together with the other goat that was set free) the entire removal of sin from the congregation; it also signified that the Law itself made none, not even the priests, partakers in such complete atonement. Christ fulfilled the first significance of this type by suffering "without the gate;" the Jews, in casting him out from their midst, were the unconscious instruments of his so fulfilling it; he thus bare and took away the sins of all outside the holy city which represented the Israel of God. But further, in him is supplied what under the Law was wanting; for of him, the true Sin Offering, we may all partake: he declared this himself when he spoke of our caring his flesh and drinking his blood - in which words the mention of the blood as well as of the flesh is peculiarly significant; for of the blood, which was "given upon the altar to make atonement for sins" (Leviticus 17:11), none might in any case under the Law partake; but of him we even drink the blood, in token that atonement is completed, and that we are now full partakers in all its benefits. The only seeming discrepancy between the type and the Antitype, as above set forth, is in the order of the different parts of the old ceremonial. The sin offering was slain in the camp before it was burnt outside, whereas Christ fulfilled both these parts of the type by one act upon the cross outside. Again, the blood of the sin offering was taken into the holy of holies before the body was consumed by fire outside, whereas Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary "with his own blood" after he had suffered "without the gate." But the general significance of the symbolism in its several parts is not thus disturbed; it is viewed as a whole, and all parts of it are found to be fulfilled - Pulpit Commentary - Hebrews 13
-----
how anyone can even come close to changing the whole event and trying to take away what was done according to everything God had revealed and planned through the Law....by trying to mystify this Sacred Event and insert some blasphemous 2000 year GAP and make it anything or any place other than what it was, and clearly without question recorded forever....well.....
i don`t have any idea what to say.
MAKE THIS ROME OR THE UN OR EU if you want to.
i dont know what faith you claim to belong to
FIX
outside the gates of Jerusalem/wall means outside the city*
outside the city*
John 19:20
New American Standard Bible
Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
outside the gates of Jerusalem/wall means outside the city*
outside the city*
John 19:20
New American Standard Bible
Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
Numbers 35
English Standard Version
Cities for the Levites
1The Lord spoke to Moses in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho, saying, 2“Command the people of Israel to give to the Levites some of the inheritance of their possession as cities for them to dwell in. And you shall give to the Levites pasturelands around the cities. 3The cities shall be theirs to dwell in, and their pasturelands shall be for their cattle and for their livestock and for all their beasts. 4The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubitsa all around. 5And you shall measure, outside the city, on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, the city being in the middle. This shall belong to them as pastureland for their cities.
God bless
English Standard Version
Cities for the Levites
1The Lord spoke to Moses in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho, saying, 2“Command the people of Israel to give to the Levites some of the inheritance of their possession as cities for them to dwell in. And you shall give to the Levites pasturelands around the cities. 3The cities shall be theirs to dwell in, and their pasturelands shall be for their cattle and for their livestock and for all their beasts. 4The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubitsa all around. 5And you shall measure, outside the city, on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, the city being in the middle. This shall belong to them as pastureland for their cities.
God bless
FIX
outside the gates of Jerusalem/wall means outside the city*
outside the city*
John 19:20
New American Standard Bible
Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
outside the gates of Jerusalem/wall means outside the city*
outside the city*
John 19:20
New American Standard Bible
Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
UMM But this is how it is written in the Greek Interlinear
This then the title many read of-the Judeans that near was of the city the place the?-where was-impaled the Jesus and was haven-been-written to-Hebrew to-Greek to-Romistic.
In this version John puts it that IT IS PART OF THE CITY.
A
Jesus was cruxified IN JERUSALEM. however EARTHLY Jerusalem symbolizes MORE than just stone walls. it also represents the apostate people who rejected Jesus. it also represented the people who stoned and killed God's prophets.
It represented Hagar and her children: the bondswoman and the children born of the flesh but not of the SPIRIT who did not inherit the Promise with Sarai's offspring who are born of the Spirit from the Heavenly Jerusalem.
God literally judged earthly Jerusalem to foreshadow the Great Day of judgement upon which the whole world will be held accountable before the throne of Christ.
It represented Hagar and her children: the bondswoman and the children born of the flesh but not of the SPIRIT who did not inherit the Promise with Sarai's offspring who are born of the Spirit from the Heavenly Jerusalem.
God literally judged earthly Jerusalem to foreshadow the Great Day of judgement upon which the whole world will be held accountable before the throne of Christ.
pretty simple, Ariel.
and the entire OT looked forward to that Pinnacle in History at the First Advent and the Appearing of the Lamb of God - the New Covenant - in HIS BLOOD - shed for them and for us.
the message of His Mercy and Love STILL for the remnant who He loved is lost in all this "oh it wasn't Jerusalem"
His Mercy and Kindness for all who would be saved is lost.
as if apostate Jerusalem DIDN'T despise and reject Him - John 1
as if apostate Jerusalem DIDN'T conspire with wicked gentiles to kill Him -Psalm 2
as if apostate Jerusalem DIDN'T end up filling up her sins to the full:
1 Thessalonians 2:1
Paul's Ministry
14For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, 16hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.
does mean ALL the jews? of course not! who did Jesus choose as His Twelve?
and to whom did He go first, and call - His SHEEP! in Israel!
we have to blur EVERYTHING beginning with the Exodus (or even further back) to make this not happen in History exactly as it did.
.......
and all this resistence and hand-waving and actual rejection of what the Bible clearly says happened has this weird thing attached to it - the charge or fear of the charge of 'antisemitism'.
it's totally BIZARRE.
how can anyone read the gospels and not see the division of the people?
just as in all the world - among all people.
John 7:43
Division of People over Jesus
42"Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?" 43So a division occurred in the crowd because of Him. 44Some of them wanted to seize Him, but no one laid hands on Him.
John 9:16
Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath." But others asked, "How can a sinner perform such signs?" So they were divided.
John 10:19
The Jews who heard these words were again divided.
.....
is He MORE Merciful and Kind to gentiles than He was to Israel? NO!
He was patient and longsuffering for centuries.
and STILL gave His Son for the people. Many believed!
the entire OT shows God being patient and forgiving and merciful over and over.
does it show Him dispensing Judgment and wrath too? absolutely.
can any christian really deny 70AD was the wrath he warned about - the Covenant Curses?
i don't know how. - just READ IT!
these things happened (partly) as examples - concerning His Kindness AND severity....for all of us.
Romans 9-11
A Remnant of Israel
Romans 9:27
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
Romans 10:21
But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."
Romans 11:2
God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah--how he appealed to God against Israel:
Romans 11:3
"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"?
Romans 11:4
And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."
is this not clear? it might be perplexing...that He would come and they wouldn't know Him. but that's WHAT IT SAYS.
He still went to the Cross for those who would be saved. and for us too.
why is this hard? how can we deny ALL this took place IN JUDEA AND SAMARIA AND JERUSALEM? His Whole Ministry was to Israel FIRST
Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
and the entire OT looked forward to that Pinnacle in History at the First Advent and the Appearing of the Lamb of God - the New Covenant - in HIS BLOOD - shed for them and for us.
the message of His Mercy and Love STILL for the remnant who He loved is lost in all this "oh it wasn't Jerusalem"
His Mercy and Kindness for all who would be saved is lost.
as if apostate Jerusalem DIDN'T despise and reject Him - John 1
as if apostate Jerusalem DIDN'T conspire with wicked gentiles to kill Him -Psalm 2
as if apostate Jerusalem DIDN'T end up filling up her sins to the full:
1 Thessalonians 2:1
Paul's Ministry
14For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, 16hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.
does mean ALL the jews? of course not! who did Jesus choose as His Twelve?
and to whom did He go first, and call - His SHEEP! in Israel!
we have to blur EVERYTHING beginning with the Exodus (or even further back) to make this not happen in History exactly as it did.
.......
and all this resistence and hand-waving and actual rejection of what the Bible clearly says happened has this weird thing attached to it - the charge or fear of the charge of 'antisemitism'.
it's totally BIZARRE.
how can anyone read the gospels and not see the division of the people?
just as in all the world - among all people.
John 7:43
Division of People over Jesus
42"Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?" 43So a division occurred in the crowd because of Him. 44Some of them wanted to seize Him, but no one laid hands on Him.
John 9:16
Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath." But others asked, "How can a sinner perform such signs?" So they were divided.
John 10:19
The Jews who heard these words were again divided.
.....
is He MORE Merciful and Kind to gentiles than He was to Israel? NO!
He was patient and longsuffering for centuries.
and STILL gave His Son for the people. Many believed!
the entire OT shows God being patient and forgiving and merciful over and over.
does it show Him dispensing Judgment and wrath too? absolutely.
can any christian really deny 70AD was the wrath he warned about - the Covenant Curses?
i don't know how. - just READ IT!
these things happened (partly) as examples - concerning His Kindness AND severity....for all of us.
Romans 9-11
A Remnant of Israel
Romans 9:27
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
Romans 10:21
But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."
Romans 11:2
God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah--how he appealed to God against Israel:
Romans 11:3
"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"?
Romans 11:4
And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."
is this not clear? it might be perplexing...that He would come and they wouldn't know Him. but that's WHAT IT SAYS.
He still went to the Cross for those who would be saved. and for us too.
why is this hard? how can we deny ALL this took place IN JUDEA AND SAMARIA AND JERUSALEM? His Whole Ministry was to Israel FIRST
Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
outside means outside !!! lol
4The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubitsa all around. 5And you shall measure, outside the city, on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, the city being in the middle. This shall belong to them as pastureland for their cities.
God bless
4The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubitsa all around. 5And you shall measure, outside the city, on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, the city being in the middle. This shall belong to them as pastureland for their cities.
God bless
was this comment directed at me, or the 20+ people that do not agree that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon the Great? These thread / forums are open for the public to discuss diff views on the bible ,perhaps one can dismiss themself these feeling by not creating threads with poles if there views do not match there personal views idea on the bible ?
who are the two witness to you ?
Picking up my cross, and keep on Following Christ peace
who are the two witness to you ?
Picking up my cross, and keep on Following Christ peace
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