Attack of the seventh day adventists
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First, that Mosaic law is not the Ten Commandments which were given to Moses to give to all as a model for good conduct. The Commandments are not laws, they are commandments. Read about those who keep the Commandments in Revelation and in the letters of John. As for whatever is designated by some as "keeping the Sabbath," there is more than one kind of sabbath mentioned in the Word. There is the one commanded, the Holy Sabbath of the Father to commemorate His resting from His six days of creating the world and all that is in it and above it, not that He would ever need rest. It is a gift to mankind, those who love Him, to rest one day a week from their six days of labor with Him. It is kept separate because the Father wants it so. Please say anyone who observes not killing, not stealing, not coveting, not having another god etc. is keeping the Law. I do not think so. If you believe it is idiotic to follow these guidelines, you, my friend, have a very odd way of living in grace. Also you are throwing out the teachings of when a man observes one day over another and he has a clear conscience in the sight of Yahweh, there is no sin. Read the Word, believe it, and worship Yeshua. You may call Him Jesus if you wish. Judgment has not been given over to the saints, so stop now before you judge yourself.
The easiest way is to be in agreement with the majority of people, but the true way is to be in agreement with our Father in Yeshua, amen.
The easiest way is to be in agreement with the majority of people, but the true way is to be in agreement with our Father in Yeshua, amen.
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According to CARM (Matt Slick)
Legalism within Christianity takes on 3 aberrant forms.
1) Where a person observes laws of God to achieve salvation.
2) Where a person observes the laws of God to maintain salvation.
3) A person who uses the law to condemn others unjustly.
What is legalism? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
So ChildofGod accurately portrayed legalism, but you changed it to a definition that is not about legalism. Nice bait n switch move, but it won't stick.
Legalism within Christianity takes on 3 aberrant forms.
1) Where a person observes laws of God to achieve salvation.
2) Where a person observes the laws of God to maintain salvation.
3) A person who uses the law to condemn others unjustly.
What is legalism? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
So ChildofGod accurately portrayed legalism, but you changed it to a definition that is not about legalism. Nice bait n switch move, but it won't stick.
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1) In the bible, I fail to see any difference between a Commandment and a law. Both are being required by God.
2) God's moral laws are forever. The ceremonial laws given to Moses are obsolete under the new covenant. Those laws were a foreshadow of things to come.
3) The Sabbath and other ceremonial laws are under the old covenant. The are perfunctory. If you keep one of those laws then you are guilty of breaking the ones you do not keep. That is why James said:
If you keep the law of the Sabbath, then you must obey all the other laws. There is no such thing as partially obey the law! Those who are obeying the law, in part or in full are severed from Christ and no longer under grace. (Gal 5:4) This is why it is dangerous to obey the Sabbath or any of the ceremonial laws of Moses, as a law or command of God.
2) God's moral laws are forever. The ceremonial laws given to Moses are obsolete under the new covenant. Those laws were a foreshadow of things to come.
3) The Sabbath and other ceremonial laws are under the old covenant. The are perfunctory. If you keep one of those laws then you are guilty of breaking the ones you do not keep. That is why James said:
If you keep the law of the Sabbath, then you must obey all the other laws. There is no such thing as partially obey the law! Those who are obeying the law, in part or in full are severed from Christ and no longer under grace. (Gal 5:4) This is why it is dangerous to obey the Sabbath or any of the ceremonial laws of Moses, as a law or command of God.
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The two great commandments of Moses law are:
which are both summarized in this one law:
The two great commandments of Jesus' law are:
Which is greater; the law of Christ or the law of Moses?
- love GOD
- love your neighbor
which are both summarized in this one law:
- do to others as you would have them do to you, or love your neighbor as yourself
The two great commandments of Jesus' law are:
- believe in Christ
- love your neighbor
Which is greater; the law of Christ or the law of Moses?
Well I would say Christ to answer your last question although the 10 commandments aren't Moses's law. They're actually Christ's
But as you Stayed the two great commands are:
Love God
1. Have no other Gods before me
2. No Idolatry
3. Take not the Lord's name in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath to Keep it Holy
Love your neighbor
5. Honor father and Mother
6. You shall not Murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bare false witness
10. You shall not covet of your neighbor
If you keep the first four then this is how to love God
The last six is how you love your neighbor.
John 14: 15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
none of us HERE bleoeve salvation can be gained by keeping Law, we have all stated that. yet that seems to be the "go to move" to "win" and debate when all else is lost. after seeing me say works cant save more than once i feel it is dishonest to continuse to put that on me, and these guy have said the same, mybe you didnt see those posts IDK, but im saying it again:
WORKS CAN NOT SAVE, but:
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
and here is a verse saying if one dosent do the will of father Yahweh and subject themselves to His instructions, Yahshua says HE WILL REJECT THEM, not maybe or kinda He says it clearly. So I think you are really calling the Messiah a "legelists."
Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
Iniquity is Word #458 from word #459, Greek Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning not subject to (Yahweh's) Laws, transgressor.
WORKS CAN NOT SAVE, but:
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
and here is a verse saying if one dosent do the will of father Yahweh and subject themselves to His instructions, Yahshua says HE WILL REJECT THEM, not maybe or kinda He says it clearly. So I think you are really calling the Messiah a "legelists."
Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
Iniquity is Word #458 from word #459, Greek Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning not subject to (Yahweh's) Laws, transgressor.
2 Kepha 3:15-16, "And recognize that the longsuffering of Yahweh our Savior is salvation; just as our beloved brother Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
Colossians 2:16-23, "16Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God.20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh."
Ithink we have v16 down, I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul (Paul) in nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT writers.
20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?
So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.
21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle
the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a child in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.
22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the
commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of
mankind, you will live."23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.
Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"
you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc
Also i want to add you wrote:
3) with respect to a (Jewish) holiday
4) a new moon (Jewish calendars were based on the moon and new moons were celebrated.)
the jews did make their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh hashanna. when they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the jews.
Colossians 2:16-23, "16Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God.20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh."
Ithink we have v16 down, I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul (Paul) in nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT writers.
20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?
So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.
21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle
the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a child in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.
22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the
commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of
mankind, you will live."23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.
Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"
you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc
Also i want to add you wrote:
3) with respect to a (Jewish) holiday
4) a new moon (Jewish calendars were based on the moon and new moons were celebrated.)
the jews did make their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh hashanna. when they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the jews.
IMO, you folks talk out of both sides of your mouths. On one hand you say works of law can't save; on the other hand you imply that people who don't observe the law of Moses will be rejected, i.e., not be saved.
Double-minded hypocrites! False witnesses of GOD.
What did Paul say:
As you received Christ Jesus the Lord [i.e., by faith], live in him [by faith]. Colossians 2:6
Double-minded hypocrites! False witnesses of GOD.
What did Paul say:
As you received Christ Jesus the Lord [i.e., by faith], live in him [by faith]. Colossians 2:6
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I did not get your point and I don't have a kepa in my bible.
There is no way of getting around the fact that no gentile was ever told to keep the Sabbath and Col. 2:16 makes it very clear we as Christians do not obey Jewish ceremonial laws.
It seems like you are splitting hairs over "jews don't make holidays". They kept them and we are never told to keep any Jewish holy day, holiday or festival, because we are under a new covenant.
There is no way of getting around the fact that no gentile was ever told to keep the Sabbath and Col. 2:16 makes it very clear we as Christians do not obey Jewish ceremonial laws.
It seems like you are splitting hairs over "jews don't make holidays". They kept them and we are never told to keep any Jewish holy day, holiday or festival, because we are under a new covenant.