Do people think we have to become Hebrew to relate to God?

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#81
If the sound of the name changes, you are still the same person. eg. David in English, spelled the same in low German but pronounced " Douphed" add an e to the end in Italian Davide pronounced Dauviday. Same name, different sounds, same person. If we could only call on the name of the Jesus in the Hebrew then most of us are not saved. I do not have a problem with the actual name of the Creator but we probably never will till we reach heaven. We can study and make a best guess and I wish our OT would have used the Hebrew name for God rather than Lord but it does not change who He is.
The oldest manuscripts do use YHWH over 6,823 times, and there are translations that use YHWH.

I never said that if one doesnt use the Name of Yahweh they are doomed, I said the Name is important because Yahweh says it is hunderds of times.

Romans 8:26, "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we might not know how to offer our prayer worthily, as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes for us, with groans that words cannot express."

The Spirit knows our intent, but that is no excuse, to me, if Hes my Father I want to know His Name.
 
E

Equuas

Guest
#82
"If Hes my Father I want to know His Name"
David is my father and I know his name is David but in low German he is Douphed and in Italian he is Dauviday. It does not change who my father is. To me he is David, to his sister he is Doughed and to my cousin he is Dauviday . 3 different languages. 3 different names , same person.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#83
Where's the name?

Some say the name El is Not God’s name nor should it be used. Others such as Jacob Meyer say “These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of El (Jacob O. Meyer, “Trinity, Duality, or Oneness,” Monograph). Meyer says God and Lord are pagan names and must not be used. Yet he will use the word El to refer to the Creator (rightly so) to the dismay of other sacred name groups.

El is used for God and attached to names and attributes of Himself, this doesn’t make him a pagan God.

Sacred name adherents need to look carefully before they smear certain names. The word El the singular part of Elohim is used for God and it is used for both false gods and the true one, as is Elohim.
Not even getting into the "nature of" God/Elohim or Lord/Adonai

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal"

how did they cause the people to forget his name?

a rabbinical law and the ADDING of vowel points that made YHWH to be pronounced as Adonai/Lord or Elohim/GodY

Yahweh clearly is mad this happened, and yet most continue in the rabbinical tradition of REPLACING HIS NAME, which has nothing to do with pronouncing it, it could be written but it is replaced.

Yahshua called the pharisees out over and over about this, yet most of the followers of Yashua follow the decree of the Pharisses unknowingly on this matter.

Im not going to continue to debate this at least at tis time, it is unfruitful debating with you Zone.

in all sincerity i hope we can both come to the fullnes of the Messiah, praise be to Father Yahweh
 
E

Equuas

Guest
#84
In regards to the OP I agree that we can get to caught up with studying the Hebrew way because in God's sight we are all one washed by the blood of Christ Jesus our Lord. That being said I think if one comes from a Jewish background and then become a Christian that person will have a greater insight into some of the NT because they understand more of the Types in the OT. That does not mean that we of a non-Jewish background can't study like Hizakyah has. As we do so we get more excited of how so much God revealed in the OT. It does not make us an elite Christian just one who has studied a different part of Scripture.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#85
Hizikyah - DO YOU BELIEVE THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT IS FROM SATAN?

(and needed to be translated back into Hebrew??)

not one SINGLE jewish christian will agree with you - this is a GENTILE CULTIC belief.

...

Yeshua DID NOT Instruct us to Say God’s name

Three times in Scripture we Father mentioned as Abba, in the language of the Jews, Aramaic. (Mark 14:36) And Yeshua said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for You.”

Paul writes “For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”(Romans 8:15) “And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!” (Galatians 4:6). Can you say Father?

Jesus said in Matt 6:6-7 “ pray to your Father... your Father “Over and over again Jesus calls Yahweh “FATHER” Jesus said to pray “In this manner, therefore, pray: our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name”(v:9). Why do sacred namers not obey this simple command and twist with their legalism to say you must say Yahweh (or some other derivative). Because they don’t want to believe it.

Abba is an Aramaic word for “father.” It was the customary title used of God in prayer by Jesus when he taught the disciples to pray (Mt 11:25-26; 26:39,42; Lk. 10:21; 22:42; 23:34; Jn. 11:41; 12:27; 17:24-25). Whenever it occurs in the New Testament it has the Greek interpretation joined to it (ho pater), that is apparently to be explained by the fact that the Chaldee (Aramaic) “ABBA” through frequent use in prayer, gradually acquired the nature of a most sacred proper name, to which the Greek-speaking Jews added the name from their own tongue.

It was in common use in the mixed Aram dialect of Palestine and was used by children in addressing their father. It answers to our “papa.” The right to call God “Father” in a special and appropriative sense pertains to all who have received the testimony of the Spirit to their forgiveness. (New Unger's Bible Dictionary)

In the Gemara (a Rabbinical commentary on the Mishna, the traditional teaching of the Jews) it is stated that slaves were forbidden to address the head of the family by this title. It approximates to a personal name, in contrast to “Father,” with which it is always joined in the NT. This is probably due to the fact that, abba having practically become a proper name, Greek-speaking Jews added the Greek word pater, “father,” from the language they used. Abba is the word framed by the lips of infants, and betokens unreasoning trust; “father” expresses an intelligent apprehension of the relationship. The two together express the love and intelligent confidence of the child. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)

For instance, in Jesus’ own prayers, he gave us the example of addressing God as “Our Father” (Abba). Not once did Jesus say the name of God, but said instead “Father.” He was bringing the people from a legalistic relationship under the law into a personal relationship with their God. But the legalists say, “unless you say the name this way” or “unless you keep the 10 commandments”, unless you do this or that you cannot be saved! They would just as well keep the thief on the cross out of the kingdom because of all the things he did not do according to their teaching.

Yeshua never called His Father Yahweh in his ministry and sacred name adherents have absolutely no proof from the Scripture that would show otherwise. Of course the easiest way to deal with all this is to dismiss it all by saying that’s the Greek, and it is unacceptable or corrupted. (The only exception- when Jesus was being judged in our place for our sins- his relationship became a legal one and he called out “my God, my God.”) Even if there were found an instance or two where he did call God Yahweh, the overwhelming majority of the Scripture does not teach this as obligatory.

Pronunciations of the Name pt.3 < DO NOT CLICK to read the other half, since you think this is all FROM SATAN

(which shows what a cult you are in)


.....

you might to take a real close look at THIS:

"
It was in common use in the mixed Aram dialect of Palestine and was used by children in addressing their father. It answers to our “papa.” The right to call God “Father” in a special and appropriative sense pertains to all who have received the testimony of the Spirit to their forgiveness. (New Unger's Bible Dictionary)

In the Gemara (a Rabbinical commentary on the Mishna, the traditional teaching of the Jews) it is stated that slaves were forbidden to address the head of the family by this title."


and ponder this, written by a Hebrew of Hebrews, who knew more about all this than you ever will (apparently):

Galatians 4
Sons and Heirs
1I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave,a though he is the owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principlesb of the world. 4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

...


you're teaching a false gospel.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,362
422
83
#86
I have been wondering this as some of the threads, and people I meet on the highways and byways. Isreal as a nation was from the Mosaic law and ceremonial law from the exodus on. Abraham, Melchizedek, Job, Isaac, and Jacob, Adam, Eve, Noah, Enoch where not Hebrew, in that sense. They lived out the revelation that God had given them at that time.

Israel was to prefigure Christ's coming, etc, but Christ is here, do we need to emulate life prior to Christ in order to know Him, or are we filled with the Holy Spirit who teaches us all things?

Col 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

If they want to celebrate that, have at it.

It seems however that it can lead to an elitism attitude, like they really know what it's all about from special information or something. I am not saying this is the case at all times, but it's definitely a possibility.

I went to a messianic service, and the pastor completely ignored me, but conversed with my friends who had Jewish backgrounds. He knew them, but I was completely new, and he didn't know if I was saved or not.


Is living in light of the revelation of the Holy Spirit, the inner man, so hard that we think if we do these Sabbaths and feasts etc we will know what the Holy Spirit cannot teach? Is that looking for a spiritual experience that fades away a day or two after the festival, or looking for the living active presence of the Holy Spirit who helps us worship in spirit and in truth as much as/as often as we desire?
John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

How can anyone know this except by the Holy Spirit of God?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#87
Im not going to continue to debate this at least at tis time, it is unfruitful debating with you Zone.

in all sincerity i hope we can both come to the fullnes of the Messiah, praise be to Father Yahweh
no problem....

what does this mean?: "come to the fullnes of the Messiah" < you're using an English word here - Messiah.

what does messiah mean? tell me in Hebrew please, without translating or transliterating, because every time it's done according to YOU it gets corrupted.

and i am not surprised in the least you're bailing, because you're about to get the ground cut out from under you BY HEBREW CHRISTIANS who know your stuff is ABSURD.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#88
no problem....

what does this mean?: "come to the fullnes of the Messiah" < you're using an English word here - Messiah.

what does messiah mean? tell me in Hebrew please, without translating or transliterating, because every time it's done according to YOU it gets corrupted.

and i am not surprised in the least you're bailing, because you're about to get the ground cut out from under you BY HEBREW CHRISTIANS who know your stuff is ABSURD.
Messiah is not a name, its a title there different authority in ones Name as opposed to ones title.

LOL, as im walking away it like you yelled, yeah keep walkin.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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#89
I'm gonna talk how I see it below... I'm gonna be straight and blunt to avoid confusion, please don't read tone in here, cuz I'm going to challenge you but it's not in a skubalon sorta way.... :)


QUOTE:

EVERYONE makes that claim. but I suspect few really are. Scripture says if you are, you are no longer in the flesh. Paul says that if you are indwelled by the Spirit/walk by the Spirit, you do not give into temptation.

Then you got this type of person, that claims they are filled with the Spirit so everything they say must be right. And if you disagree then you are "obviously" lacking the Spirit. If a person is "filled with the Spirit" there will be changes in the person's life, not in their claims. Sorry for my tangent, that phrase sets me off on the topic though. my bad.
END QUOTE............

Now, I agree that there are believers who have not yet received the 2nd Work of Grace, that being the "filling of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit," known as "sanctification."
That is ONE situation someone is sanctified. They are also sanctified at atonement,grace, just being forgiven. The word isn't a ONE THEOLOGICAL USE word. It just means set apart. At atonement God sets you apart among all sinners. At the Indwelling you have been made different and stand apart on your own. I had to break up 30 years of SBC teaching to understand this in scripture.

However, the idea that believers here on earth can not have the indwelling Holy Spirit is not what I read in Scripture.
It's not what I read either. You say it this way, because you are working under the assumption a person can NEVER not sin on earth. I'm not of any Wesleyan teaching, but when I discovered what Wesley preached on, he and I are very similar.

Acts, and many of the Epistles of Paul show that we can receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW.......
Absolutely. And when you have it the FLESH is gone. which is something I'd imagine you are taught can not happen. Rom 8:9
And if it's gone, and your walk is in the Spirit now, you no longer give into temptations of the flesh. Gal 5:16.

If you are still in the flesh, like me, or still give into temptations, like me, we can't claim to yet be indwelled. HOWEVER the Spirit can be all over us leading us down the path. Gal 5:18 look at the Greek for the wrd LED "ago" means led, like a man leading a dog on a leash or a horse on reins... That's from the outside.

To assume there will always be "you in the flesh" when you are on earth is the fault of the KJV who translated the word literally, and does nothing to help people understand it's not always used for the human body. That assumption also means you have to get REALLY REALLY REALLY creative on vss like Rom 8:9, col 2:11, romans 7:5 or 6 where Paul says he's not in the flesh. THEN people created the fantasy, OOOHHhhh we are schizophrenic in God. We have a flesh nature, but GOD ignores it and only sees some mythical Spirit being inside. My flesh nature can do the nasty when it wants, but that Spirit nature will still be pure of sin. When all of scripture discusses how that "flesh nature" should live in a way that is loving to neighbor, and doesn't talk about some inner esoteric purity, but a way of lifestyle for our human body/Soma, the flesh nature/Sarx coexisting with Spirit nature/pneuma Theos, as a nearly ridiculous claim.

The picture that fits easiest in scripture is this:
We are born in a human body. The flesh nature or sinful nature is the one that told us as an infant to cry when we were hungry or when we wanted attention. Later it leads us to what to eat, and how to act when you want to be loved. It leads you with a self focused way. Protects you, warns you, etc... It's the ONLY YOU that you ever know.

UNTIL:
you start your walk with God. You accept atonement. You work at obedience. The spirit tries to teach YOU how to live. But the SARX still wants to keep you on the SELF focused life. The RYR was told to give up all he used for ME NATURE's providence. His homes, his wealth, his businesses, and go to Christ a pauper to depend on him; "to be perfect" the old life had to be gone, and a new dependent life had to be born.

The leading of the Spirit gets to a point that Christ circumcizes the SARX from your person. Now you can take this two ways, you are flailed and become a Dungeons and Dragons animated "christian". OR, the SARX/flesh is used to describe something else, like the ME FOCUS nature I described above. When it's removed by circumcision done by Christ, trust me a circumcision does not grow back. It's gone. Permanently removed. YOU WORK at obedience, but HE CHANGES YOU along the way, the change results in the flesh is gone, the Spirit indwells. And now, the SPIRIT is credited with keeping you from surrendering to temptation. NOT YOU, b ut HIM. Problem is people are so in love with ME NATURE they try to make IT stronger, not smaller.

This is most often accomplished by the elders gathering around a believer, and the laying on of hands, and praying over them that they might receive His indwelling presence.
Well,....... that was certainly how the Spirit was initiated into the faith. It's how the Catholics believe it happens. But most protestants say they are heretics for that claim. I can't say it can't happen that way, but I can certainly say there is another way it can happen. GOD need not depend on a person meeting one who can lay hands on them.

Without His indwelling presence, we would NOT HAVE the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that He imparts to each of us as He will.
(my thoughts)
The last comment here is a LOOOoonnnggggg chat for another thread. And generally I stay out of it... :)

Peace brudder.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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#90
hmm - if your saved, your sealed with the Holy Spirit, One indwelling, multiple fillings - apostles prayed over and over for the filling of the Holy Spirit, not that the Holy Spirit would come and indwell them again, so I would not say it's a second work of grace. You can pray with a group of believers, yes for the filling of the Holy Spirit, but it's not conditional to receiving a filling of the Holy Spirit.
Well, that's certainly a third grade way of interpreting scripture, you with the great claims in their name, but it's not scripture. Salvation/atonement is but the first step, the maturation or indwelling comes later.

You have Grace without the Spirit. Grace "saves" you. BUT you are so self concerned, maybe, you ONLY see salvation because that protects your sorry booty from hell. What about the maturation after, to become as spiritually mature as CHRIST. Do you just ignore it, have you never read about it? Do you deny it?

I realize any self proclaimed "TUTOR" must be of much higher intellect than me, I'm certainly not smart enough to make that claim, but I know what I have read. I know what I have seen. And I know what is taught by the APostles....

What do you teach, and why is your opening line in opposition to them?
 
Aug 31, 2013
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#91
John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

How can anyone know this except by the Holy Spirit of God?
How can anyone know they are wrong, and think they have the spirit of God, and don't know that they don't. They of course assume they have it.

So you get a room full of doofuses who all demand "NO I HAVE THE SPIRIT", and since no one agrees with them, they of course are the ONLY ONE in the room with it. Truth is every person in there feels the same way, and in this room of my imagining, NONE Of them have it. BUT ALL of them would die to prove that THEY had it.

So, you test that spirit, and when you test it against scripture you find out that if the Spirit indwells you are not in the flesh nature/Sarx/SIN nature any more.

Now you can continue to claim you ARE indwelled, and try to change that verse to suit your claim, but what is that gonna get you? It gets you approval among men/peers/friends/neighbors, and that is ALL some people want. They do a lot of hard work in how they ACT, but by controlling their act so much, God can't lead them past the ACT to become something new. They spend all their time acting, and none of their time looking to the Prize and running that race.

They are in the wrong race.

Rather than becoming Blessed for their WEAK and DEPENDENT SPIRIT (see beattitudes...)
they work full time at being a STRONG SPIRIT.

That's the opposite of what Christ told the RYR he must do to become perfect, or spiritually mature.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#92
Messiah is not a name, its a title there different authority in ones Name as opposed to ones title.

LOL, as im walking away it like you yelled, yeah keep walkin.
[video=youtube;tRwFNpIiShw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRwFNpIiShw&list=PL41BD2914AC422C47[/video]

can you go through a few short videos and expose this guy as a serpent liar and whatnot please?

at least go through it and see how outlandish and sad your claims are.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,400
6,685
113
#93
I read the Word in several languages quite well, Hebrew is new to me, but I love it. My source of all wisdom is the Word, not people who write elaborate theologies based on their epoch and thinking. We all receive true wisdom by the Holy Spirit, otherwise it has only a very small possibilty of having anything at all to do with the Word of Yahweh.

The source languages for Torah, the Writings and the Prophets are Hebrew as it evolved from Moses. There is also Aramaic in the writings. I would not use any other of the languages I have studied as the source of anything that is not already contained in the Word recognizing its roots. This is not being Hebrew Roots, whatever that theology may be, it is simply recognizing the language used by our forefathers. It would be ridiculous for anyone (me) to quote Holy Scripture or rather new teachings from them in anything other than my native tongue or the Hebrew roots of the Word unless it were to compare nuances of the translations.

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#94
I read the Word in several languages quite well, Hebrew is new to me, but I love it. My source of all wisdom is the Word, not people who write elaborate theologies based on their epoch and thinking. We all receive true wisdom by the Holy Spirit, otherwise it has only a very small possibilty of having anything at all to do with the Word of Yahweh.

The source languages for Torah, the Writings and the Prophets are Hebrew as it evolved from Moses. There is also Aramaic in the writings. I would not use any other of the languages I have studied as the source of anything that is not already contained in the Word recognizing its roots. This is not being Hebrew Roots, whatever that theology may be, it is simply recognizing the language used by our forefathers. It would be ridiculous for anyone (me) to quote Holy Scripture or rather new teachings from them in anything other than my native tongue or the Hebrew roots of the Word unless it were to compare nuances of the translations.

was the New Testament written in Hebrew?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#95
Messiah is not a name, its a title there different authority in ones Name as opposed to ones title.

LOL, as im walking away it like you yelled, yeah keep walkin.
YAHWEH:
The Name Above All Names
The House of Yahweh < click

identical to your teachings.

.....

The House of Yahweh (HOY) is a religious movement based in Abilene, Texas. Its founder and pastor is Yisrayl Hawkins (formerly "Buffalo" Bill Hawkins), a former member of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG).[1] The group has membership around the globe. The assembly has been controversial, and is referred to as a cult by at least one former member[2] and by the cult-monitoring website Religioustolerance.org, which finds that the House of Yahweh meets ten of its ten signs of a dangerous and "high risk group."[3]

Yisrayl Hawkins (also known as "Buffalo Bill" Hawkins) is HOY's founder.[4]

In 1974, his brother, J. G. (Yaaqob) Hawkins, returned from a seven-year visit to Israel claiming he had "found proof of Yahweh's name". Shortly after, he formed the "first House of Yahweh" in Odessa, Texas.[5] He preached distinct doctrines that his brother agreed with, such as the necessity of referring to the Creator as Yahweh and the Messiah as Yahshua, as well as following the Torah and the Jewish festivals.

The House of Yahweh believes that it is the one true faith, as instituted by Yahweh, according to the Bible. Many of the assembly's teachings are similar to those of Herbert W. Armstrong, as the group split from Armstrong's WCG in 1980, similar to the Sabbatarian Churches of God.[1]

Similar to Armstrongism, the HOY believes the world will soon experience the Tribulation and that the Bible refers to Satan as the god of this world.

HOY believes Yahweh is the name of the creator of the world, and that Yahshua is the name of the Son of Yahweh, and that he is their messiah. They teach that many other titles—such as God (El, Elohim), Lord (Ba'al, Adonai), Jehovah, Jesus and Christ—are names or titles of pagan beings or idols, or are mistakes, that have been falsely ascribed to Yahweh.[7]

House of Yahweh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#96
Who knows for sure but:

"Thus, the "New Testament" documents remain Hebrew texts written in a Hebrew mindset, and must be studied that way, if we are to determine what the authors' meanings are. And until we learn the true original meaning, discussing "what the verse means to us" (as is done in many so called "studies") is a an exercise in futility and leads to error.
Having said that, there is overwhelming evidence, both historical and linguistic that shows that the texts were originally written in Hebrew, and also that Hebrew was not a "dead language" (as was thought of for quite some time). A good source of information on the latter is "Biblical Archaeology Review" (BAR) magazine. BAR has had articles in the past few years on digs that have unearthed documents from around the first century written in Hebrew, including legal documents and one woman's personal diary."

1. Recent Qumran findings (Dead Sea Scrolls) shows secular documents written at that time concerning "current events" (i.e., not just copies of old religious texts.) indicating Hebrew was a "living" language. There are several books on the Dead Sea Scrolls available. Contact YashaNet for recommendations if interested.
2. Jewish coins found from that era are minted with Hebrew text on them.
3. A study of the writings of the Christian "Church Fathers" shows that much of the "New Testament" was written in Hebrew. This includes direct statements made by; Papias, Ireneus, Origin, Eusubius, Epiphaneus, Jerome and Clement of Alexandria.
4. The prominent first century historian Josephus wrote in both his books, Antiquities and Wars, that Hebrew was the language of first century Jews and that they did not know Greek. (In fact there is a Jewish tradition saying it is better to eat swine than learn Greek.)

Also the is a legit Hebrew version of Mattithyah that is definitly more accurate than the greek, as for the other books???




"
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#97
YAHWEH:
The Name Above All Names
The House of Yahweh < click

identical to your teachings.

.....

The House of Yahweh (HOY) is a religious movement based in Abilene, Texas. Its founder and pastor is Yisrayl Hawkins (formerly "Buffalo" Bill Hawkins), a former member of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG).[1] The group has membership around the globe. The assembly has been controversial, and is referred to as a cult by at least one former member[2] and by the cult-monitoring website Religioustolerance.org, which finds that the House of Yahweh meets ten of its ten signs of a dangerous and "high risk group."[3]

Yisrayl Hawkins (also known as "Buffalo Bill" Hawkins) is HOY's founder.[4]

In 1974, his brother, J. G. (Yaaqob) Hawkins, returned from a seven-year visit to Israel claiming he had "found proof of Yahweh's name". Shortly after, he formed the "first House of Yahweh" in Odessa, Texas.[5] He preached distinct doctrines that his brother agreed with, such as the necessity of referring to the Creator as Yahweh and the Messiah as Yahshua, as well as following the Torah and the Jewish festivals.

The House of Yahweh believes that it is the one true faith, as instituted by Yahweh, according to the Bible. Many of the assembly's teachings are similar to those of Herbert W. Armstrong, as the group split from Armstrong's WCG in 1980, similar to the Sabbatarian Churches of God.[1]

Similar to Armstrongism, the HOY believes the world will soon experience the Tribulation and that the Bible refers to Satan as the god of this world.

HOY believes Yahweh is the name of the creator of the world, and that Yahshua is the name of the Son of Yahweh, and that he is their messiah. They teach that many other titles—such as God (El, Elohim), Lord (Ba'al, Adonai), Jehovah, Jesus and Christ—are names or titles of pagan beings or idols, or are mistakes, that have been falsely ascribed to Yahweh.[7]

House of Yahweh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
im definitly not a part of anything they have going on.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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My source of all wisdom is the Word, not people who write elaborate theologies based on their epoch and thinking. We all receive true wisdom by the Holy Spirit, otherwise it has only a very small possibilty of having anything at all to do with the Word of Yahweh.

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: fnimmorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, fnfactions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So, this sort of teaching, leads everyone to believe THEY are right. :p

The fruit of that thought, is 8.5 billion denominations for 8.0 billion protestants.

The fact of the matter is, Paul was appointed by Christ. (Using Paul as an example.) Paul trained, taught and helped grow others to be leaders in the Church. Timothy was one of them. TImothy was told to study to be approved. Who was he to be approved of???? He was a young kid, and he was at a church, over an area, that had many churches in it. THINK CATHOLIC BISHOP. Those Churches were led by....

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,<<<<

And they were to..... teach theology and Bible??? Nope....

for the equipping of the fnsaints for the work of service,<<<<<<

What were the works, led by the church leaders, taught by the Bishop, who was told to be the studious one? Read the last parable of Matt 25 for EXAMPLES.

THE FRUIT OF THIS LEADING US THROUGH WORKS OF SERVICE DOES WHAT????

until we all attain to the unity of the faith, <<<<<

UNITY! NOT another denomination. WOW, that's not very protestant is it?

But, think about it. We'll disagree on the details, but we can all agree on who needs God's love...<<<<<

He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (consider this providence.)

and do not go on presenting fnthe members of your body to sin asfninstruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members asfninstruments of righteousness to God.<<<<<

We are to present outselves to be TOOLS for God to use. NOT sit on our butts and talk about salvation. Salvation is the first step of a long race, not the destination.

If salvation is your destination, then you are a selfish person, solely focused on yourself and that is antithetical to LOVE as Jesus describes it.

This is the danger of trying to proclaim things we don't know for sure. I>E> "I'm led by the Spirit so I am right!".

When the Church realizes this, and admits only SOME have the Spiritual gifts of leadership and teaching, the rest of us are grunts to do the work, you may see some healing in the Church.

WHIle this is certainly how the Church of ROme is set up.... I don't think they have it right either. But I gotta admit, they are closer than Protestants are in this aspect of the Church body.

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#99
im definitly not a part of anything they have going on.
read through it - identical teachings.
Joshua, not enough (even though EVERY Hebrew scholar will tell you this is the same name as Jesus in English)....no...and Jesus in English......well....see what your co-religionists say about that. FROM SATAN.

do you know how many times we've heard that rubbish?

it's self-evident as soon as somebody shows up posting every possible combination of compound constructs they can think of to make this MAGIC LOST NAME thing FIT.

and your compound construct idea for the name Yahshua (which is NOT JOSHUA) - comes from this guy:

The Hebraic Tongue Restored, by Fabre d'Olivet, page 462, gives us this information concerning the Hebrew word, shua. We find that this word comes from the word yasha:

The House of Yahweh < click

......

Polemical Encounters: Esoteric Discourse and Its Others
books.google.ca/books?isbn=9004162577
Olav Hammer, ‎Kocku Von Stuckrad - 2007 - ‎Religion
had an influence on the magical vision of language found in Christian sources [...]. ... A special chapter on kabbalistic linguistics is contained in this book (see ... of the noted French occultist and Freemason Antoine Fabre d'Olivet (1767–1825).

The Birth of Modernism: Ezra Pound, T.S. Eliot, W.B. Yeats, and the Occult - Leon Surette - Google Books < click

Full text of "Transcendental magic, its doctrine and ritual"
archive.org/stream/.../transcendentalma00leviuoft_djvu.txt‎
No modern expositor of occult science can bear any comparison with Sliphas Levi, ...... MAGIC This signifies, according to the version of Fabre d'Olivet : < click


you might want to review all your stuff, and everytime this construct comes up : YAHSHUA, find out where it came from.
if it traces back to the freemason and Kabbalist d'Olivet, well...that's on you.
.....

you're all wrapped up in not wanting any bad guys involved in your quest for truth.

ask yourself how this knowing-the-right-NAME-and-exactly-how-it-sounds-SAVES-ME-doctrine is NOT magic.

According to historian James Webb, the occult concept of succeeding prehistoric races, as later adopted by Blavatsky, was first introduced by the French author Antoine Fabre d'Olivet in his Histoire philosophique du genre humain (1824).[2] By contrast, historian Goffe Jensma claims that the concept of root races was first articulated in the Dutch esotericist book Oera Linda, which was translated into English by William Sandbach in 1876.[3] Also prior to Blavatsky, the root races were described by the English theosophist Alfred Percy Sinnett in Esoteric Buddhism (1883).

Root race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


you might want to ask yourself how your stuff always seems to come from gentiles - and merges oddly with Armstrongism and British Israelism....white people/gentiles/any nutty combo ARE THE TRUE ISRAEL.



Antoine Fabre d'Olivet (December 8, 1767, Ganges, Hérault – March 25, 1825, Paris) was a French author, poet and composer whose Biblical and philosophical hermeneutics influenced many occultists, such as Eliphas Lévi, Gerard Encausse and Édouard Schuré.

His best known works are on the research of the Hebrew language and the history of the human race entitled (1) The Hebraic Tongue Restored: And the True Meaning of the Hebrew Words Re-Established and Proved by their Radical Analysis, and (2) Hermeneutic Interpretation of the Origin of the Social State of Man and of the Destiny of the Adamic Race. Other works of renown are on the sacred art of music entitled Music Explained as Science and as Art and Considered in its Analog Relationship with Religious Mysteries, Ancient Mythology and the History of the Earth, and a translation and commentary of Pythagoras's thirty-six Golden Verses.

Fabre d'Olivet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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i will look into this Yahweh willing, as I have heard of Fabre d'Olivet but never heard of any kabbalistic/masonic ties, if thats true certianly caution shoud be applied. But I have to be clear, and dont take offence, you have many doctries I find cohesive to new age/masoinc, and this is recorded in history, lol like a few days ago I told you the article youu quoted seemed masonic, and you kingdom is already here doctrine, yeah. but none the less I will look into it and if it leads me to truth then praise Yahweh.

but bottom line this person could not have changed the "OT" and Yahshua in the OT name is Yahweh's Salvation and I key isYahshua;s name in hebrew mattithyah, which i have not throughly studied. lol I think your a jackyl, but If im wrong i will admit it