Was Paul a false apostle according to you ?
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U
I am assured and satisfied with the apostle Peter's appraisal.
2 Peter 3:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
D
If Paul was not an apostle of God, then it would seem God is not strong enough to protect the accuracy of His word. So by insulting Paul, you also insult God who approved Paul as an apostle. This is a serious error.
I have no doubt in my mind that Paul was of God. I see no controversies around Paul and I can't think of a single word he wrote that is not God's word.
I have no doubt in my mind that Paul was of God. I see no controversies around Paul and I can't think of a single word he wrote that is not God's word.
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U
What about Paul's inspired writings ? Can we trust them to lead us into growth in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ ? I have to be frank. It is disconcerting to me when I see any statement that may imply, intentional or otherwise what could be construed as a "disclaimer" or an "asterisked" qualifier. The simple truth of the matter is that the apostle Paul wrote most of the N.T... at the behest of God the Father thru His Holy Spirit. What is "warned" of Paul and his writings, given the same conjecture, that should not be "warned" of every other writer of the N.T. books ? These "ever so slight" overtures have always made me uncomfortable. Just doesn't sit right with me.
@ unclefester.
2 Peter 3
"beware" "destruction" "error of the wicked"
i believe Peter is warning and reminding us and i have shared this.
Why it makes you uncomfortable i know not.
The Bible records people using the Writings of Paul and other scripture to their own destruction what more needs to be said?
Paul's epistles are specifically mentioned.
2 Peter 3
"beware" "destruction" "error of the wicked"
i believe Peter is warning and reminding us and i have shared this.
Why it makes you uncomfortable i know not.
The Bible records people using the Writings of Paul and other scripture to their own destruction what more needs to be said?
Paul's epistles are specifically mentioned.
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@ unclefester.
2 Peter 3
"beware" "destruction" "error of the wicked"
i believe Peter is warning and reminding us and i have shared this.
Why it makes you uncomfortable i know not.
The Bible records people using the Writings of Paul and other scripture to their own destruction what more needs to be said?
Paul's epistles are specifically mentioned.
2 Peter 3
"beware" "destruction" "error of the wicked"
i believe Peter is warning and reminding us and i have shared this.
Why it makes you uncomfortable i know not.
The Bible records people using the Writings of Paul and other scripture to their own destruction what more needs to be said?
Paul's epistles are specifically mentioned.
καὶ ἀστήρικτοι στρεβλοῦσιν ὡς καὶ τὰς λοιπὰς γραφὰς πρὸς τὴν ἰδίαν αὐτῶν ἀπώλειαν
And distort also as the OTHER scriptures to the own of them destruction.
N
If anyone doubts the credentials of Paul. I can't believe they really take time to read the Bible....
Paul was chosen by Christ/ The Heavenly Father. Read below.
[size=+1]
Acts 9
King James Version (KJV)
9 And Saul ( Paul ), yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. ( side note, a reason why Paul would teach what he did about the women teaching . It was not safe )
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:
24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.
26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.
30 Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.
31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.[/size]
Paul was chosen by Christ/ The Heavenly Father. Read below.
[size=+1]
Acts 9
King James Version (KJV)
9 And Saul ( Paul ), yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. ( side note, a reason why Paul would teach what he did about the women teaching . It was not safe )
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:
24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.
26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.
30 Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.
31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.[/size]
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U
I fail to see what Peter said that did not align with Paul ? Matter of fact, Peter said that ignorant and unstable people distort some of Paul's writings, as they do other scriptures to their own destruction. Peter does not contrast with Paul "because some of Paul's writings can be hard to understand". Peter agrees with Paul by stating that "the ignorant and unstable" do the same thing with Paul's writings that they do with other scriptures .... to their own destruction. Straightforward as straightforward can be.
2 Peter 3:14-18
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
2 Peter 3:14-18
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
I don't think this post should be treated as "anyone who --- is weird". I think Paul is often completely misunderstood. I have heard people say that Paul teaches against the Jews, when Paul was a Jew. That Paul teaches against the written law, when God wrote the law and Paul could not say God is wrong as he was of God.
Jaume took this seriously, and is trying to teach truth, we need to read what he says seriously.
I went through a heart breaking time of hours and hours and hours of study when I thought Paul said one thing and God said another. I knew Paul spoke for God, so I knew I was missing something, it took me ages to find out what. There must be other people in the world having the same trouble. For me it was the conflicting ideas about law and what it should mean to us. I got it worked out finally, so all scripture agrees, but I surely did have a time making it all fit.
I am sure there are other people who are stuck with not understanding. We need to help, not throw stones.
Jaume took this seriously, and is trying to teach truth, we need to read what he says seriously.
I went through a heart breaking time of hours and hours and hours of study when I thought Paul said one thing and God said another. I knew Paul spoke for God, so I knew I was missing something, it took me ages to find out what. There must be other people in the world having the same trouble. For me it was the conflicting ideas about law and what it should mean to us. I got it worked out finally, so all scripture agrees, but I surely did have a time making it all fit.
I am sure there are other people who are stuck with not understanding. We need to help, not throw stones.