Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?

[RachelBibleStudent]

the great accuser rachel....what irony.


everytime you deny where Christ was crucified, you deny what He repeatedly said...AND what happened. why you do it is known only to you (not really)


John 8:37
36"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37"I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38"I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father."

John 7:1
After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him.

John 8:40
As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

John 18
39"But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover; do you wish then that I release for you the King of the Jews?" 40So they cried out again, saying, "Not this Man, but Barabbas." Now Barabbas was a robber.

Matthew 26:55
In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.

Acts 3:14
You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you.

etc etc

if you think the New Testament is antisemitic, that's your issue.

i have never 'denied where christ was crucified'...but -you- do...

scripture clearly states that christ was crucified outside the city gate of jerusalem...near the city...and -not- in jerusalem...

and showing that the jews sought to kill jesus and eventually did hand him over to be executed does -not- change the fact that jesus was crucified outside jerusalem...

i don't think the new testament is antisemitic...but your gutter doctrine has nothing to do with the new testament...

 

[zone]

now i know -you- like to blame the jewish people for just about every bad thing that has ever happened...again to justify your hatred of them...but in the real world there is no city responsible for all the blood shed on earth...

what garbage.
i posted about your friend Donald Rumsfeld lying to the world.

you excused it as faulty intelligence.
i go where the FACTS are.

you don't.
again, that would be your issue, not mine.

i don't care if its jews or gentiles.....you do though.
somebody gets a pass in your world. even if it contradicts SCRIPTURE itself.

the list of stuff you've claimed was "conspiracy theory" - then proceeded to ridicule....is fifty miles long.
just shows you know almost nothing.

what a bore.

 

[zone]

i have never 'denied where christ was crucified'...but -you- do...

scripture clearly states that christ was crucified outside the city gate of jerusalem...near the city...and -not- in jerusalem...

and showing that the jews sought to kill jesus and eventually did hand him over to be executed does -not- change the fact that jesus was crucified outside jerusalem...

i don't think the new testament is antisemitic...but your gutter doctrine has nothing to do with the new testament...

outside the camp.
read the OT.
you'll find out it was all about Israel....their practices.


is it my fault you don't know what it means?
it's even in the Book TO THE HEBREWS - ROTFLMHO

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

well excuse me if i don't display fruits of the spirit toward you, who continually accuses me of murder - because you have issues with the NT record. and you extraoplate from there....but see, that's you - not me

i'm called to have nothing to do with false teachers and slanderers....such as yourself.

best of luck to you in your search for a church, then
one where you'd excommunicate ppl for bizarre stuff you made up about Synod (due to the murder in your heart - toward me - hypocrite i believe that's called), then you slandered LCMS Pastors; teachers AND President Harrison.

tsk tsk.

you don't display the fruits of the spirit towards -anyone-

and jesus said if you hate someone in your heart then you are a murderer...so your problem is with christ and his teaching...not me...

i have no issue with the new testament record...i actually believe what it says about where jesus was crucified...it is revealing that you on the other hand don't care what it says...

if you want to have nothing to do with people who simply believe what the bible says then maybe you should go find somewhere else to 'fellowship'...there are too many bible believers here for you to fit in...

 

[zone]

Re: Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

RACHEL 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city the mystical world church NOT Jerusalem though, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build NOT Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself AND NOT IN JERUSALEM: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city NOT JERUSALEM THOUGH and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate NOT JERUSALEM THOUGH, WHERE THE LORD WASN'T CRUCIFIED.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

the truth is that one camp accepts the clear scriptures that -rule out- earthly jerusalem as a candidate for mystery babylon...while the other camp has an agenda that supersedes faithfulness to God's word...

I know you mean well, but you have not one thing in Scripture to link Mystery Babylon to the future; the only link is you! Because you say? I'm so sorry that you and others in here were taught these evil and hellish doctrines; by the false prophets Hal Lindsay, and Tim Lahaye and others like them. These Evil men have done great harm to God's Church, they have produced thousand's upon thousand's of people who have received these false images in their minds and are now damaged goods; and probably can never be fixed. Not only that, but now they themselves go out and preach this ilk themselves! It is your agenda that supersedes faithfulness to God's Word, because now you do not need to be linked to God's Word to put forth your Gnostic agenda; and this is how you link these Scripture's to what you call the last days. Now on the other hand Mystery Babylon is linked to Jerusalem through God and His Wife Old Covenant Israel, who played the whore and now God divorced her, and made a public example out of her. Simple as that! The same exact garbage that is coming out of your mouth, has been going on now, from the 18th, 19th, 20th and now into the 21st Century. It's time that people are held accountable for their false prophecies.

 

[Deadtosin]

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

where does this fit in?

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

where does this fit in?

This does not link Mystery Babylon to the 21st Century?
This was what was to soon come upon Old Covenant Israel!
In the destruction of the once Holy City Jerusalem.
There is no link to these Scriptures and the 21st Century, and that is my point!
The link I have to share with you is the destruction of the City and Temple in 70 ad.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

LOL. stop talking rachel.
you're embarrassing yourself.
you made accusations and assertions...i followed up....did you?

here it is dear...i could post the answers given by the LCC/LCMS Pastors you claimed would surely represent that "Liberal element" President Harrison is working to purge.

would you like the response to that from the president's office?
find another church - LCMS is not a cult.

~

Dear Katherine,

Thank you for writing and sharing your concerns. Our staff has provided the following response.

1. First of all, please contact a pastor or theologian who can speak to this matter on behalf of the LCC for a more definitive response and for reassurance.
2. Second, for the sake of reassurance, it is very helpful to say that the creeds and the Small Catechism are the confessions for our laity and no one should demand a level of subscription beyond that—something very few laity could make in good conscience.
3. And third, as for the LCMS, together with the Confessions, we have with great consistency sought to speak carefully of the confessional assertions about the antichrist(s) of Scripture, often employing a distinction between the pope as a man and the office and actions of the papacy and noting the responsibility of all who are called to preach and teach in Christ’s stead.
a. The baptized man—Jorge Borgoglio—is our brother in Christ. As a Christian man who is serving as a pastor and bishop, he holds a godly, biblical office and may indeed further the Gospel through his preaching and teaching and his sacramental administration.
b. However, as Pope Francis, he holds an unbiblical office which makes claims which are contrary to Christ—or, to use the language of Ap XV, 18, are “a part of the kingdom of the Antichrist” to the extent that “it defends human rites as justifying.”
c. The Ap also notes, in keeping with Katherine’s point of concern, the plural Antichrists of Scripture and (significantly!) does so after receiving the Confutation’s affirmation of AC XIII. The assumption is that both the confessors and their detractors agree on the important fact that that all ungodly teachers and false prophets are counted as Antichrists (Ap VII, 47).
d. Whether a form of the papal office could be of benefit, by human rite, is a theoretical question for which Luther and Melanchthon provided different answers, with Luther denying its potential benefit and Melanchthon affirming it.

I pray this information is helpful. May God richly bless your day.

Diane Grimm
LCMS Church Information Center
Phone: 888-843-5267
Fax: 314-996-1126
Hours: 7:45 a.m. to 4:15 p.m. Central Time
Monday through Friday

~

take it up with Synod or find another church....at least stop lying me, and about my church.

one LCMS Pastor gave me his name & number for you - he'd like to help you out.
he's not sure why you consider LCMS a cult.



no rachel - the "you will answer for it' - was directed at your type - who refuse what the biblical record says and agrees with current Israeli and Western corruptions of scripture to bomb arabs into the stone age - against the teachings of Jesus.

keep your accusations straight, girl.
tsk...such hatred....in your heart.
just a burning resentment.

did you ever correct your certain assertion you KNEW the feet were not the Herods and Rome?
or do you still deny that too.
maybe it's the POPE.



you've shown nothing. but you like to think you have.
zero. you don't even have a decent THEORY to follow up you unbiblical redefinition of where Jesus was crucified.
LOLOLOLOL

because you deny the very clear message repeated through Scripture that Jerusalem, along with the gentiles RULING JUDEA, as PETER clearly stated were responsible for the death of Christ - at JERUSALEM.

like it or lump it. i don't care what you do.



gutter theology.
rachel, do you think your pathetic insults advance your lame theory?
i assure they do not.

well the letter you just posted doesn't really address what was actually going on here...namely a professing member of the LCMS going around unequivocally -condemning- LCMS doctrine on the internet...

so actually seeing that letter i am going to give the LCMS the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you deceived them...as you try to deceive everyone else...

and now you are claiming that we are going to answer for our opinions on international politics? salvation by assent to zone's politics?

sounds like another false gospel...what ever happened to salvation by grace through faith in christ alone?

show me anywhere that i insisted that the feet of daniel's statue were not the herods and rome...i remember actually having very little to say about the whole herod thing...so i don't know what you are talking about...this is going to go down as another false accusation unless you can post proof...

finally you have repeatedly been shown scriptures that place jesus' crucifixion outside of jerusalem...in keeping with the old testament symbolism...you are not rejecting my 'theory'...you are rejecting plain statements of scriptural history...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

what garbage.
i posted about your friend Donald Rumsfeld lying to the world.

you excused it as faulty intelligence.
i go where the FACTS are.

you don't.
again, that would be your issue, not mine.

i don't care if its jews or gentiles.....you do though.
somebody gets a pass in your world. even if it contradicts SCRIPTURE itself.

the list of stuff you've claimed was "conspiracy theory" - then proceeded to ridicule....is fifty miles long.
just shows you know almost nothing.

what a bore.

completely off topic...a common tactic of dishonest debate is to derail the discussion by bringing up irrelevant issues as distractions...

 

[Deadtosin]

This does not link Mystery Babylon to the 21st Century?
This was what was to soon come upon Old Covenant Israel!
In the destruction of the once Holy City Jerusalem.
There is no link to these Scriptures and the 21st Century, and that is my point!
The link I have to share with you is the destruction of the City and Temple in 70 ad.

I'm sorry brother, The Spirit of God in no way leads me to believe that these events have already occurred. I respect your beliefs but I do not reflect them.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

outside the camp.
read the OT.
you'll find out it was all about Israel....their practices.


is it my fault you don't know what it means?
it's even in the Book TO THE HEBREWS - ROTFLMHO

'outside' means -outside-

not 'close enough that we might as well call it inside'

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

RACHEL 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city the mystical world church NOT Jerusalem though, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build NOT Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself AND NOT IN JERUSALEM: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city NOT JERUSALEM THOUGH and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate NOT JERUSALEM THOUGH, WHERE THE LORD WASN'T CRUCIFIED.

this is another dishonest debate tactic called a 'straw man argument'

i actually -agree- that this passage in daniel 9 is about jerusalem...

what i -disagree- with is the assertion that this has anything to do with mystery babylon which describes a different situation entirely...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I know you mean well, but you have not one thing in Scripture to link Mystery Babylon to the future; the only link is you! Because you say? I'm so sorry that you and others in here were taught these evil and hellish doctrines; by the false prophets Hal Lindsay, and Tim Lahaye and others like them. These Evil men have done great harm to God's Church, they have produced thousand's upon thousand's of people who have received these false images in their minds and are now damaged goods; and probably can never be fixed. Not only that, but now they themselves go out and preach this ilk themselves! It is your agenda that supersedes faithfulness to God's Word, because now you do not need to be linked to God's Word to put forth your Gnostic agenda; and this is how you link these Scripture's to what you call the last days. Now on the other hand Mystery Babylon is linked to Jerusalem through God and His Wife Old Covenant Israel, who played the whore and now God divorced her, and made a public example out of her. Simple as that! The same exact garbage that is coming out of your mouth, has been going on now, from the 18th, 19th, 20th and now into the 21st Century. It's time that people are held accountable for their false prophecies.

actually i believe mystery babylon is past and present and future...mystery babylon has existed since the time of cain and it will continue to exist until christ returns and destroys the man of lawlessness...

it is the opposite of the kingdom of God...because whenever God does something...satan tries to set up an imitation...

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

I'm sorry brother, The Spirit of God in no way leads me to believe that these events have already occurred. I respect your beliefs but I do not reflect them.

That's good with me you put it out there! But you cannot interpret Prophetic Covenant Scripture, as you please.
It's beyond my comprehension how smart people, who know that 30 ad to 70 ad was the most important time in the history of man. It was the last generation of Old Covenant Israel and the first Generation of New Covenant Israel; but according to all of the false prophets this great prophecy, had nothing to do with this time in history!!!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

where does this fit in?

lol yes it appears to me that jerusalem sits on many highlands...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

It's beyond my comprehension how smart people, who know that 30 ad to 70 ad was the most important time in the history of man. It was the last generation of Old Covenant Israel and the first Generation of New Covenant Israel; but according to all of the false prophets this great prophecy, had nothing to do with this time in history!!!

well i for one believe that this time period -was- addressed in revelation at least a few times...i just don't see the entire book as being about that time period...since it also addresses the wedding supper of the lamb and the day of judgment and so on...

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

well i for one believe that this time period -was- addressed in revelation at least a few times...i just don't see the entire book as being about that time period...since it also addresses the wedding supper of the lamb and the day of judgment and so on...

Jesus' Bride was those faithful of Old Covenant Israel who come out of that last generation, the Sacrament was their wedding supper; how do you not know that? They come out of Great peril, and most of them died giving a witness and testimony to their brethren who would die in this Mystery Babylon as the Great Whore. You may be an extension of that bride, but they are the ones who gave a testimony of Jesus Christ even unto their death? How do you people not know this?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Jesus' Bride was those faithful of Old Covenant Israel who come out of that last generation, the Sacrament was their wedding supper; how do you not know that? They come out of Great peril, and most of them died giving a witness and testimony to their brethren who would die in this Mystery Babylon as the Great Whore. You may be an extension of that bride, but they are the ones who gave a testimony of Jesus Christ even unto their death? How do you people not know this?

i have heard this idea before...mostly from dispensationalists ironically...but i can't agree with it...

i believe christ's bride is -all- believers...not just the believers of old covenant israel...even the mosaic israelite community welcomed believers from other nations...for example rahab from jericho and ruth from moab...

a lot of people don't realize that the mosaic covenant never had anything to do with salvation...it was the older unconditional abrahamic covenant that determined whether or not you were abiding in the vine...

so i think it incorrect to say that those of old or mosaic covenant israel are the bride of christ...the correct view would be that those of the -abrahamic- covenant are the bride of christ...and the abrahamic covenant includes all believers of all time...including today and in the future and in eternity...

also many christians through all time have died witnessing to christ...this is not restricted to the first century... and as i have said before...even in the first century most of those who died witnessing to christ did -not- die in jerusalem...they died in other persecutions throughout the roman empire and beyond...

furthermore...just the thought of there being an 'extension' of christ's bride bugs me as coming close to divine polygamy...

and finally the wedding supper takes place in heaven when christ comes to collect his bride...that hasn't happened yet unless you subscribe to full preterism...

i want to suggest looking into the way God's plan of salvation lines up with the israelite marriage custom...for example the way that election aligns with the practice of the father choosing a bride for his son...or the connection between christ's blood and the bride price... and if you study that you will see that the wedding supper comes at the very end of the salvation story...right before the 'happily ever after' in eternity...

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

i have heard this idea before...mostly from dispensationalists ironically...but i can't agree with it...

i believe christ's bride is -all- believers...not just the believers of old covenant israel...even the mosaic israelite community welcomed believers from other nations...for example rahab from jericho and ruth from moab...

a lot of people don't realize that the mosaic covenant never had anything to do with salvation...it was the older unconditional abrahamic covenant that determined whether or not you were abiding in the vine...

so i think it incorrect to say that those of old or mosaic covenant israel are the bride of christ...the correct view would be that those of the -abrahamic- covenant are the bride of christ...and the abrahamic covenant includes all believers of all time...including today and in the future and in eternity...

also many christians through all time have died witnessing to christ...this is not restricted to the first century... and as i have said before...even in the first century most of those who died witnessing to christ did -not- die in jerusalem...they died in other persecutions throughout the roman empire and beyond...

furthermore...just the thought of there being an 'extension' of christ's bride bugs me as coming close to divine polygamy...

and finally the wedding supper takes place in heaven when christ comes to collect his bride...that hasn't happened yet unless you subscribe to full preterism...

i want to suggest looking into the way God's plan of salvation lines up with the israelite marriage custom...for example the way that election aligns with the practice of the father choosing a bride for his son...or the connection between christ's blood and the bride price... and if you study that you will see that the wedding supper comes at the very end of the salvation story...right before the 'happily ever after' in eternity...

I did not say Old Covenant Israel. I said the faithful of Old Covenant Israel of that last generation (30 ad to 70 ad), The ones of the Jews who chose Christ over the destruction of the rest of their people. It's good that you've studied and know that the wedding supper was at the end; because this was the end of Old Covenant Israel, unto their happy ever after in eternity!
This is why you can never mistake Mystery Babylon for anything else but Jerusalem, it's Priestly Institution, city Temple, Land and people. God divorced His Wife, and Jesus Married His, and in marrying her He sealed the faithful dead in Shoal unto Himself.
You've out smarted yourself Rachel.