What Laws are still valid to christians

[KohenMatt]

..ok, to each his own.......but I have the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit to instruct me on how to live and be obedient to God........

and that is waaaaayyyyyy easier than all them Mosaic Laws in my opinion......

THANK GOD FOR GRACE!

i also have the gospel of Jesus' sacrifice. I also know that Jesus and the Holy Spirit wrote the Mosaic Law. The exact same God.

 

[KohenMatt]

Odd, I'm sure I have read somewhere that the Holy Ghost was our Teacher........shoot, oh well........

God=Holy Spirit=Jesus

 

[p_rehbein]

i also have the gospel of Jesus' sacrifice. I also know that Jesus and the Holy Spirit wrote the Mosaic Law. The exact same God.

As I stated, to each his own...........

(somehow though I get the feeling that you aren't real big on the idea that Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law........ )

 

[p_rehbein]

JustMe said:

QUOTE: Jesus wanted His followers to remember the truth of His Father i.e. our Father in heaven. Jesus is "The Creator" of all including the Mosaic Law through the Spirit, not by carnal, or fleshly minds, or the physical that once was. So, I totally agree with the scripture you posted END QUOTE........


Well, you may not want to agree with my thoughts here though.......in the passages of Scripture I FYI'ed,
Jesus speaks of HIS words, HIS sayings.......didn't mention the Mosaic Laws........

 

[just-me]

JustMe said:

QUOTE: Jesus wanted His followers to remember the truth of His Father i.e. our Father in heaven. Jesus is "The Creator" of all including the Mosaic Law through the Spirit, not by carnal, or fleshly minds, or the physical that once was. So, I totally agree with the scripture you posted END QUOTE........


Well, you may not want to agree with my thoughts here though.......in the passages of Scripture I FYI'ed,
Jesus speaks of HIS words, HIS sayings.......didn't mention the Mosaic Laws........

That's true that Jesus didn't mention the law. He had made it clear previously that He didn't come to do away with it. I think that we agree. The mistake so many people make is they have been taught that Jesus abolished the Mosaic law because He fulfilled it. I look at it this way. If you have a glass that is not completely full of water (or whatever) I need to put more into it if I want it full. To do away with what has been previously put into it means I have to start all over again to fill the glass. Jesus confirmed He didn't come to start all over again by saying He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Therefore the law is of extreme importance for God's plan, through Christ Jesus, to be complete. Without recognizing that fact, we are then deceiving ourselves because there is nothing to fulfill.
I'm not insinuating that you are, but hearing for years what I have just refuted, it is obvious to me that I speak the truth on this matter. I used to believe that way also, but when I started reading and studying the Old Testament, and see how God works (as little as I know) I realized I didn't have it right because nothing really gelled together until the Spirit of God opened my eyes to see how beautiful all of His Word fits so perfectly together, and complete through Christ Jesus our mutual Lord and Savior.

May God bless you in all His teaching.
Bryan

 

[KohenMatt]

As I stated, to each his own...........

(somehow though I get the feeling that you aren't real big on the idea that Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law........ )

What do you mean by fulfilled?

 

[Elin]

All of them.

I take by that you mean the Decalogue, and not all the Levitical laws.

 

[Elin]

1st Corinthians 14:34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 .) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

hmmm, dunno, seems to me it's petty clear that they are to "keep silence in the churches." AND "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:"

So, I don't see Paul saying anything about the role of Pastor or Preacher...........

Pastors were teachers, and the role is called Pastor/Teacher.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1Ti 2:12)

Paul is speaking of being a pastor over others in the church.
Women are not allowed to be pastors.

And in the face of much resistance, the Catholic church is still faithful to that command.

As well, would this be a "custom?" Being a law regarding the "customs" of that period? If so, are laws concerning "customs" still in effect for today's Church?

No, because Paul grounds it in God's permanently established order at creation.
It is binding as long as creation exists.

"For Adam was formed first then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The law is only meant for disobedient and lawless people, not righteous ones

... the law is not given for a righteous person but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and totally worldly, for the one who kills his father and the one who kills his mother, for murderers, sexually immoral people, homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching, 1 Timothy 1:9-10​

Only disobedient people are under the law of Moses

If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

For all those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14​

Believers in Christ are dead to the law of Moses

But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to that by which we were bound, so that we may serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter of the law. Romans 7:6

For through the law I died to the law, in order that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ, Galatians 2:19​

Those who seek to be justified by law in any way are cursed

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” Galatians 3:10​

The law of GOD is love which is shed abroad in our hearts through faith

For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5:14

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Romans 5:5​

 

[Elin]

All of them.

Except for the sacrifices in Leviticus 1-5, which should be spiritually done all the time, with the recognition that Yeshua is our ultimate sacrifice.

Matt

Not according to the NT, Matt.

The Mosaic law has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:15) as the means to righteousness or salvation.

However, the Decalogue has now been written on our hearts (Heb 8:10; Ro 13:8-10), and is now the way we live in love from our hearts on which it is written (Mt 22: 37-40; Ro 13:8-10).

Law keeping is not the cause of salvation, it is the result of salvation.

 

[oldhermit]

Pastors were teachers, and the role is called Pastor/Teacher.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1Ti 2:12)

Paul is speaking of being a pastor over others in the church.
Women are not allowed to be pastors.

And in the face of much resistance, the Catholic church is still faithful to that command.


No, because Paul grounds it in God's permanently established order at creation.
It is binding as long as creation exists.

"For Adam was formed first then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

If this is restrictive only with regard to a woman assuming the role of a Pastor then why does Paul command her to be silent? Teaching and having authority over a man is represented as two different things. Not only is she commanded not to assume a role of authority over the man, not only is she commanded to not teach but, Paul goes even further. She is commanded to be silent.

 

[Elin]

The priesly Laws are also for the High Priest Yahshua,

Actually, the priestly laws were for the Levitical priesthood in the order of Aaron,
which has been changed to the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:9-11),
necessitating a change in the law (Heb 7:12),
and Christ Jesus was made the eternal High Priest forever of this new priesthood (Heb 7:17, 21),
as God's fulfillment of Ps 110:4.

So the Levitical laws for the priesthood in the order of Aaron do not apply to the eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, of which Christ Jesus is the eternal High Priest.

but all others apply.

Actually, the NT presents only the Decalogue ((Mt 22:37-40; Ro 8:10-13)
as written on the hearts of NT believers (Heb 7:10),
it does not present the whole Mosaic code as written there.

According to the NT, the only laws that apply are the Decalogue,
which has been written on our hearts,
and is the way of life lived from the loving hearts on which they have been written.

 

[just-me]

I present to all a crux of sorts.

If we have the law, and revere it, some will say that we are under the law. If by grace we are no longer under the law, and by that, reject it as condemnation, then we are minus the law, meaning "lawless". Can't win for losing.

I, for one, revere the Mosaic law, and thank God, because of His grace and mercy that the punishment for my "can't win for losing" is accomplished by our Savior who has completed it all. To revere the Mosaic Law via the Spirit of God makes Christ Jesus more dynamic than I have ever known, and that dynamic increases day by day as I study the Law by His divine Spirit.

 

[Elin]

Do these apply in your view?

They applied until NT when they were set aside (Heb 7:12, 18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:15)
as the way to righteousness and salvation,
because they were weak and useless to obtain them,
and were replaced with Christ Jesus' law of love (Mt 22:37-40, 5:43-47; Jn 13:34; Ro 13:8-10)
which fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 10), for

if I love God, I will not take his name in vain, nor worship idols;
if I love my parents, I will not dishonor them,
if I love my neighbors, I will not steal from them, nor murder them,
nor commit adultery with their spouses, nor lust after their possessions,

because love fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 10).

 

[just-me]

They applied until NT when they were set aside (Heb 7:12, 18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:15)
as the way to righteousness and salvation,
because they were weak and useless to obtain them,
and were replaced with Christ Jesus' law of love (Mt 22:37-40, 5:43-47; Jn 13:34; Ro 13:8-10)
which fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 10), for

if I love God, I will not take his name in vain, nor worship idols;
if I love my parents, I will not dishonor them,
if I love my neighbors, I will not steal from them, nor murder them,
nor commit adultery with their spouses, nor lust after their possessions,

because love fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 10).

Here are some of the requirements as to how we should love the Lord.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


Here are some of the requirements as to how we should love our neighbor. It's the law
Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I present to all a crux of sorts.

If we have the law, and revere it, some will say that we are under the law. If by grace we are no longer under the law, and by that, reject it as condemnation, then we are minus the law, meaning "lawless". Can't win for losing.

How is this being lawless?

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23​

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Here are some of the requirements as to how we should love the Lord.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Agreed.

Here are some of the requirements as to how we should love our neighbor. It's the law
Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Agreed.

Example: Ephesians 4:23-32 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

The law is not unto salvation and just because we are under grace unto salvation doesn't mean that we disregard how we are to love God and love our neighbor.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

if I love God, I will not take his name in vain, nor worship idols;
if I love my parents, I will not dishonor them,
if I love my neighbors, I will not steal from them, nor murder them,
nor commit adultery with their spouses, nor lust after their possessions,

because love fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 10).

This can also be included in your list:

If I love GOD I will cease from my own works and trust GOD to sanctify me.

 

[Elin]

What ever translation v25 from is terrible, if this is true Yahweh has error, I can say for certian Yahweh does not have error

You are correct, God does not err.

Perhaps you would prefer this translation of Eze 20:23-25:

"Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the desert (Lev 26:23) that I would disperse them among the nations and scatter them through the countries, because they had not obeyed my laws but had rejected by decrees and desecrated my Sabbaths, and their eyes (lusted) after their fathers' idols.

"I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by (1Sa 8:7-22)**.
I let them become defiled through their gifts--the sacrifice of every first born (2Kgs 16:3, 17:17; 21:6;
Eze 16:20)--that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord (Ps 9:16)**".

This is true, and God does not err.
___________________

** - 1Sa 8:7-22 - "Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, 'This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and daughters and make them serve. . .to plow his ground and reap his harvest. . .he will take the best of your fields and vineyards. . .a tenth of your grain and vintage. . .your menservants and maidservants, the best of your cattle and donkeys. . .a tenth of your flocks. . .you will become his slaves. . ."

Ps 9:16 - The LORD is known by the judgments he executes."

 

[Elin]

All these are contained with in Yahshua's 2 GREATEST COMMANDMENTS not only, but greatest. Problem is, people transgrees these and say they are following the 10 or 2, these
are Yahweh's detailed explanation of the 2,

Actually, the Son's revelation (Heb 1:1-2) given through the writers of the NT states otherwise.

The Mosaic law has been set aside because it was weak and useless to obtain righteousness
(Heb 7:18-19),
and has been replaced with the law of Christ (Gal 6:2), which is now the law of God for the NT
(1Co 9:21),
and is the law of love (Mt 22:37-40; Jn 13:34; Ro 13:8-10),
which fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law, presented in the NT as the Decalogue
(Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 10),
which is now written on the heart (Heb 8:10) instead of tablets of stone.

Because it is written on the hearts, the Decalogue has become the way which
NT believers' loving hearts live.