CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE

[cfultz3]

Just Me,

I am willing to clarify myself more if that does not answer your question of how I see it.

 

[Josh321]

Detail: The Spirit leads by God's Law (Love). God's Law is eternal and the Word did not come to have destroyed that.

God's Law (Love) says, "do not steal".

The Law of Sin says, "do not steal".

One was God's will all the while. The other has condemnation attached to it.

The Spirit leads by God's Law.

There are two sets of Laws: God's Law and the Law of sin.

Obedience is to the Spirit and not to the Letter.

the scripture itself said it was added for transgression

 

[just-me]

I see both sides of this controversy. I see sincerity from both sides also. I see a flower that wants to blossom, and a flower that has blossomed. Both are flowers of the same species, and are of the same root. One is not fully developed, but belongs to the same root system as the flower that is fully developed. Nevertheless, there is a vine dresser who wants the beauty to be hidden, and prohibits the nutrients necessary for the flower who has not blossomed to ever mature. He has convinced them by saying that they don't have to open up to the sunshine so that they can give the full sweet aroma that they were created to give to the world.

 

[cfultz3]

Please mark me if I am wrong in your opinion. Jesus sent the Comforter, (the Holy Spirit) and Jesus taught us by that same Spirit. Now eternally gratefull has said that the law and the prophets in the Word of God that we have today, is for instruction, and I agree. Now, the question would be, is it possible to understand the truth by the Spirit of God without the Word of God. The way I see it, is that the Word came first, and then sent the Spirit. Do we ignore the Word and listen to the Spirit only, or do the two go hand in hand? John 1:1 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Now God gave the Law to Moses and this verse says the "Word was God." Is that to be taken as past tense, and now today it's done away with? This might seem to be a loaded question, but I just want a more in-depth description on how you see it in detail. Thanks

Jesus, was who the Word in the flesh, did teach by the Spirit.

The Law of sin says, "do not do this and do this" for your rightousness" - PHYSICAL

The Law of God says, "Love is my will". Man cannot please me physically. So a new Covenant was needed so that we could please Him spiritually.

Physically, it is not possible, as was taught us in the Old Covenant.

Spiritually, it is possible, as we are led by HIM and not our flesh.

 

[cfultz3]

the scripture itself said it was added for transgression

I think you are missing my point. My point is that we cannot please God physically. But, by the Spirit, we can follow God's Law.

 

[Graybeard]

No my sister, i don't think your following what i'm trying to say here, the law is holy and righteous and without the law they won't be any sin for by the law the world will be judge, what i have been trying to tell everyone on this forum since i got here..the reason why we don't need to follow the law because christ Jesus fulfills the law IN US, that is how we become servant of righteous the bible said so, that is why we don't need to manually follow it because it becomes part of our nature to automatically follow it

and THAT is the crux of the matter......do we follow it?? albeit automatically?

 

[Josh321]

I think you are missing my point. My point is that we cannot please God physically. But, by the Spirit, we can follow God's Law.

lol that's the same thing i'm saying brother i believe you read what i was trying to say wrongly, but i was stating that it was added to show that we are under sin and we need christ 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Accordingly, the Spirit leads by God's Law: Love.

Yes, Gods love for us, And our complete trust in him.

The more we trust his love, the less we will sin, because sin is selfishness.. When we realise we can't do a thing for ourself. we trust God in ALL things.

 

[Josh321]

and THAT is the crux of the matter......do we follow it?? albeit automatically?

as God as my witness yes, since i got saved nothing has ever come to mind to even steal or any wrong doing, because God fulfilled it in us that is how we become righteous, that is why all that is required is for us to love

 

[Graybeard]

as God as my witness yes, since i got saved nothing has ever come to mind to even steal or any wrong doing, because God fulfilled it in us that is how we become righteous, that is why all that is required is for us to love

That's great....but is that really all that is required?.....is for us to love??...sorry but that is not what Jesus said!

 

[Josh321]

That's great....but is that really all that is required?.....is for us to love??...sorry but that is not what Jesus said!

well i'm also telling you from experience, i have no desire to sin or do anything against God, that is why it is written the Just shall live by faith, if the law is fulfilled in us through the death of our Lord Jesus christ when we accept him what more is there to do? other than to love one another and live by faith

 

[RedTent]

well i'm also telling you from experience, i have no desire to sin or do anything against God, that is why it is written the Just shall live by faith, if the law is fulfilled in us through the death of our Lord Jesus christ when we accept him what more is there to do? other than to love one another and live by faith

Scripture says that you have knowledge of sin and you are not perfect, Josh. You need Christ, and Christ is one with the Father. When you go on and on about how Christ is not in the OT, and did away with Moses, you are talking against Christ. You know the law is love. You understand that the letter of the law is not what God is after. You understand so much, please, please just make that next step to know God your Father, and to learn to listen to Him in His scripture.

God did not make all people understand what the sacrificial system was about, and the lack of understanding in that time had to do with not understanding it was love that all law amounted to. Now, the misunderstanding is in that there is a connection between the things we do as humans and the things of the spirit. We need to obey the law of love in what we do. This is also a serious misunderstanding. If you open your heart to God, you would understand that, and you need to add what God the Father tells us in the OT to comprehend that.

 

[Graybeard]

well i'm also telling you from experience, i have no desire to sin or do anything against God, that is why it is written the Just shall live by faith, if the law is fulfilled in us through the death of our Lord Jesus christ when we accept him what more is there to do? other than to love one another and live by faith

But we are told specifically by Jesus to do His Commandments...that is what we are commanded to do!...there is no way getting round it, He was very clear about it.

 

[cfultz3]

I see both sides of this controversy. I see sincerity from both sides also. I see a flower that wants to blossom, and a flower that has blossomed. Both are flowers of the same species, and are of the same root. One is not fully developed, but belongs to the same root system as the flower that is fully developed. Nevertheless, there is a vine dresser who wants the beauty to be hidden, and prohibits the nutrients necessary for the flower who has not blossomed to ever mature. He has convinced them by saying that they don't have to open up to the sunshine so that they can give the full sweet aroma that they were created to give to the world.

First, I would like to say that the above was very nicely posed...two thumbs up.....

By hearkening to the Spirit, one does fulfill God's Law.

We have two options:

Do we do it through our flesh or through our spirit?

Either way, God's will remains for all to follow.

The flesh cannot please God.

The spirit, through the Spirit, pleases God.

 

[just-me]

Jesus, was who the Word in the flesh, did teach by the Spirit.

The Law of sin says, "do not do this and do this" for your rightousness" - PHYSICAL

The Law of God says, "Love is my will". Man cannot please me physically. So a new Covenant was needed so that we could please Him spiritually.

Physically, it is not possible, as was taught us in the Old Covenant.

Spiritually, it is possible, as we are led by HIM and not our flesh.

So can one say that the physical aspects of the Law and the prophets can be a teacher of the Spiritual aspects that are advocated in the following?
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I see two things here. To be Spiritually minded is life and peace. I couldn't agree with that more.

Now in the second verse I see another aspect which I think is more subtle than the first.
I think it hinges around the word subject, subordinate (5293 Strong's Concordance).
I read this as the carnal mind cannot be subordinate to the law of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14-16 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Job 5:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

Psalm 94:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But we are told specifically by Jesus to do His Commandments...that is what we are commanded to do!...there is no way getting round it, He was very clear about it.

Those who are saved, and learn the love of God WILL do these things.

so whats your point?

 

[cfultz3]

Jesus' commandments:

Love God and others.

Love does no evil = love does not break the "do/do nots".

 

[Josh321]

Scripture says that you have knowledge of sin and you are not perfect, Josh. You need Christ, and Christ is one with the Father. When you go on and on about how Christ is not in the OT, and did away with Moses, you are talking against Christ. You know the law is love. You understand that the letter of the law is not what God is after. You understand so much, please, please just make that next step to know God your Father, and to learn to listen to Him in His scripture.

God did not make all people understand what the sacrificial system was about, and the lack of understanding in that time had to do with not understanding it was love that all law amounted to. Now, the misunderstanding is in that there is a connection between the things we do as humans and the things of the spirit. We need to obey the law of love in what we do. This is also a serious misunderstanding. If you open your heart to God, you would understand that, and you need to add what God the Father tells us in the OT to comprehend that.

i'm sorry but how can you tell me to know God when you told me we need to keep the sabbath to be saved? your also telling me i need christ when you don't understand spirit and righteousness of the law through christ Jesus and God came fulfilled the OT( make it complete for everyone through his death)[h=3]Matthew 5:17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



have i become an enemy because i speak the truth of the gospel?

 

[cfultz3]

So can one say that the physical aspects of the Law and the prophets can be a teacher of the Spiritual aspects that are advocated in the following?
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

For the unbeliever, a resounding, "Yes". But, we, as believers, are no longer carnal minded but have died to the flesh so that by our spirit, we can be lead by the Spirit. The physical aspects of the Law is a schoolmaster to led to Christ. (I know you know this but saying it to explain my point)

I see two things here. To be Spiritually minded is life and peace. I couldn't agree with that more.

Now in the second verse I see another aspect which I think is more subtle than the first.
I think it hinges around the word subject, subordinate (5293 Strong's Concordance).
I read this as the carnal mind cannot be subordinate to the law of God.

I also think this (see above).

1 Corinthians 2:14-16 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Job 5:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

Psalm 94:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.

Bless you Sister

 

[KohenMatt]

It's a little discouraging how little the Anti-Torah people quote Jesus' words in their arguments. There sure is A LOT of Paul, but virtually no Jesus.