What Laws are still valid to christians

[homwardbound]

No. Thats a result of sin. Just like many people get an STD or a disease that never sinned.

[h=3]John 9:1-3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder our ways are surely not his ways, what we think is not always what God says or thinks, and is why we are to hear his voice through our guide the Holy Spirit of God, and forsake our selfish ways. Maybe as Paul said learn to be conformed to his death

[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Asking God is the only way to see this truth, thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your ignoring that Paul said in Galatians:

Now to Abraham and to his descendant the promises were spoken. It does not say, “and to descendants,” as concerning many, but as concerning one, “and to your descendant,” who is Christ. Galatians 3:16​

GOD made this same unconditional promise to Isaac and Jacob; that he would give the land to them and to Christ. No one else.

No I am not ignoring it

Your ignoring the whole covenant. it had many parts. The land promise was just one aspect of the covenant.

The covenant.

12 Now the Lord had said to Abram:“Get out of your country, From your family And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will make you a great nation; (Isreal 1 nation, still applicable)
I will bless you And make your name great; (fulfilled to this day, continuing to be fulfilled.)
And you shall be a blessing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” (fulfilled in and through Christ, Salvation is offered through his seed. that seed being Christ, thus through abraham and Christ. All the nations of the earth have the ability to be blessed (saved) Has NOTHING to do WITH LAND!)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

just realised I skipped this in my last response.

Look at the state they are in.

1. The enemy still in in their land.
2. it is still mostly dessert, not a land flowing with milk and honey
3. There capitol city is split into three parts
4. their temple mount doe snot belong to them (their high places are still waste)
5. They still are not following God. thus worry about their children, No peace.

What we see is prophesy begining to be fulfilled. Not yet complete. he said this would happen. we should not be fooled by it, But be in joy of it. We do live in the last days, What glory!

Imaginary exegesis. GOD made the children of Israel wander in the desert for 40 years because of their unbelief before bringing them to the land. The prophets talk about Israel being restored when they receive a new heart, not before. What they prophesied is obviously not what is happening.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Imaginary exegesis. GOD made the children of Israel wander in the desert for 40 years because of their unbelief. The prophets talk about Israel being restored when they receive a new heart, not before. What they prophesied is obviously not what is happening.

lol.. again, if you think they are restored now. You have not studied what God says will happen when they are restored.

 

[homwardbound]

disobedience=curses / Law does not = curses

do not kill or do not fornicate is not a curse, but breaking these brings curses to the one who commits them and if done on a large scale to the world.

All sin is a result of not believing and or trusting God,period

 

[just-me]

First of all, there is no "administrator" of the Law in Scripture.
There is only the giver of Law in Scripture.

Moses was the Lawgiver of the OT Law.

Likewise, Jesus is not an "administrator" of the Law, for there is no such thing in Scripture.
Jesus is the Lawgiver of the NT law, which sets aside the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19),
replacing it with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Jn 13:34; Mt 22:37-40),
which fulfills (accomplishes) the Law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10),
but has no curse attached for imperfect obedience (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10),
which is a huge difference for the people of God.

Without the curse for imperfect obedience which fails to do "every word" (Dt 27:26),
it is not the Mosaic Law.

Secondly, the text states that the law was based on the priesthood in the order of Aaron (Heb 11:12),
which prescribed that Aaron and his descendants only would be priests,
with the firstborn son of each generation being the High Priest.

When the basis of the law (the priesthood in the order of Aaron's descendants) was changed (Heb 7:11),
the law had to be changed.

The text of Heb goes on to clearly explain what and how it was changed.
It was "set aside because it was weak and useless" to obtain righteousness (Heb 7:18-19)

The case is carried forward into chap 8, where since the law was set aside, the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant
based on the law, was thereby made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

This is the revelation given (spoken) by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
which you are not reckoning with.


That claim is contrary to the revelation of the Son spoken in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), through the writers of the NT.

And that is the revelation with which you have not reckoned.

Obviously you are neglecting some key scriptures which I have reckoned with and I would like you to reckon with them also, in truth.

1. Jesus says that didn't come to destroy the law, and heaven and earth are still intact.
Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

2. Jesus was born under the law.
Galatians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

3. Jesus' teachings were of the Old Testament.
Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

4. Jesus said if you didn't believe the writings of Moses, you would believe the Words He spoke.
John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

5. Jesus' Father doesn't change.
Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

6. God bears witness of the truth Jesus speaks.
John 5:36-37 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

7. God and Jesus are one.
John 10:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I and my Father are one.

8. Jesus is the creator.
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

9. Jesus existed before creation.
Colossians 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
John 17:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

10. Jesus is the same today as He was when God gave the law.
Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

11. Circumcision is of the heart as the law instructs.
Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Some of these are redundant to what I have mentioned previously. Putting these scriptures together in proper context says one thing. If we reject any part of the Word of God, we are missing the persuasion of the purpose of God.
Galatians 6:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Accepting the sovereignty of God and His foreknowledge, I sincerely believe that He knew from the very beginning that everything He said to Moses and the prophets would never change or be negated.

Isaiah 40:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
2 John 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

This is the Mosaic Law, for if it is abolished, then the instructions of love through Jesus Christ is also abolished, which I can't believe.
Deuteronomy 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

 

[homwardbound]

Law does not equal curses, but being under law certainly does.

Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27:26

As many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:10-11​

before the Mosaic Law was ever put in place, we were under a curse, that curse is flesh, that is weak, even if the Spirit is willing. Spirit can't do it, when Spirit is dead. And Abraham was justified by belief and did as he knew God's voice and this was counted unto him as righteousness from God
Genesis 15:18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
This was 430 years before the Law of Moses came to be, and was put in place so we could become aware of our need to trust God the creator of all through the finished work of Son.

Oh and so was Job cursed? Or was that God said Job would not curse him, and Satan said take away that hedge and He will curse you.
So the story of what happened goes forth and Job did not curse God, nor will I while I am in the midst of troubles
[h=3]John 16:33[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]33 [/SUP]These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

[homwardbound]

Would it be right to say that to pay attention equally to the previous Word and the current Word would be right? I mean what we call the old and the new.

The old is the giant and the new is the midget, so if we put the midget on top of the giant, the midget sees all the way home, as the giant can't yet until the giant says here sit on my shoulders so we won't be blind any longer

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Obviously you are neglecting some key scriptures which I have reckoned with and I would like you to reckon with them also, in truth.

1. Jesus says that didn't come to destroy the law, and heaven and earth are still intact.
Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Again, the law still is in effect. it still condemns.

As the author of hebrews so clearly points out. it still can not make us righteous. it did not make anyone in the OT righteous, it will never make any of us righteous

2. Jesus was born under the law.
Galatians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

yep. he had to be, so he could fulfill it.. not sure what your trying to prove here.

3. Jesus' teachings were of the Old Testament.
Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Again. I shows my last point. It would be no good if it was not in effect when Christ died. he was the testator. he fullfilled it completely. Still do not see your point

4. Jesus said if you didn't believe the writings of Moses, you would believe the Words He spoke.

John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Again, This supports our view.

Moses did write of Christ.

1. The law given, Obey them all 100 % or you will be cursed. thus the curse is on everyone. The people rejecting Christ did not see this. They thought they were righteous by th elaw. Thus they did not believe they were cursed.
2. The priesthood and sacrifices speak of christ. Without the shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness. (Hebrews explains this quite well)

yet again, not sure what your trying to say here. It does not support you view. Jesus was not saying that moses told them how to live, he was saying That moses told them they were cursed. and needed a redeemer..

5. Jesus' Father doesn't change.
Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Yep. The law still condemnes, because cursed is everyone who does not obey every command of the law.

6. God bears witness of the truth Jesus speaks.

John 5:36-37 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Speaks of the things the prophets said Jesus would do. has nothing to do with the law of moses. so again, I do not see your point.

7. God and Jesus are one.

John 10:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I and my Father are one.

8. Jesus is the creator.
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

9. Jesus existed before creation.
Colossians 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
John 17:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Has nothing to do with the law. So not sure of your point.

10. Jesus is the same today as He was when God gave the law.

Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

And this same jesus was before the law was even given. yet people were righteous long before the law was given (Noah and Abraham as a few examples) so again do not see your point.

11. Circumcision is of the heart as the law instructs.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Ah yes, As with ALL the law. A symbol to show a spiritual thing.

Physical circumcision avails nothing, It is God who circumcises us..

this would seem to go against your point, it shows the law was a symbol, again to the schoolmaster thing

Some of these are redundant to what I have mentioned previously. Putting these scriptures together in proper context says one thing. If we reject any part of the Word of God, we are missing the persuasion of the purpose of God.
Galatians 6:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Yep. Anything sowed IN CHRIST will reap reward. Anything sowed apart from Christ will reap (wood hay and stubble. for the believer) or nothing at all (for the unbeliever)

A believever can do a moral act according to the law. yet still reep what he sowed (wood hay and straw) because he did it with a selfish attitude. so again, does not prove your point.

Accepting the sovereignty of God and His foreknowledge, I sincerely believe that He knew from the very beginning that everything He said to Moses and the prophets would never change or be negated.

Isaiah 40:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
2 John 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

This is the Mosaic Law, for if it is abolished, then the instructions of love through Jesus Christ is also abolished, which I can't believe.
Deuteronomy 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

again, does not prove your point.

Abraham understood this, before the law was given. Adam and Noah also understood this, before the law was given.

This law is written in our hearts. The mosaic law just placed it in writting so we would see our failure, and admit our guilt, because we have no excuse.

 

[homwardbound]

Below are two directives about circumcision. One was written by Paul, the other by Moses.

Would those who claim that every commandment of GOD must be obeyed please answer this question for me? Which of these directives do you advocate obeying?

• Paul makes it very clear that if you are circumcised, you are cut off from Christ.

Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing! And again I testify to every man who becomes circumcised, that he is under obligation to keep the whole law. You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4​

• The law says that every male must be circumcised. GOD said that all of those who are not circumcised will be cut off from the people of GOD.

In the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3

The uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14​

true circumcision is of the hearts operation that God does, giving us a new heart of love, not stone as many have this stony heart from bad experiences and not believing God for God's love, while in tribulations

 

[Elin]

Taking out the added words

Ephesians 2:11-15 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Wherefore remember, that ye in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, the law of commandments in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, making peace;

Reminder again of the grammatical construction of Eph 2:15:

"abolished the enmity, the law" is grammatically the same as "hired the plumber, George,"
where the "law" and "George" are in apposition to, and not objects of, "the enmity" and "the plumber," respectively.

I thought you were saying that God abolished the law to make peace between the Gentiles and the Jews.
Or maybe that's what you are trying to convey. I'm confused now

Yes, that's what Ephesians states, as is seen above.

for I read
Romans 10:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

So you think the relationship of the Jew and the Gentile before the death of Christ (Eph 2:15)
was the same as it is after the death of Christ (Ro 10:12)?

Why would you think that?

Now if the law is abolished I can love you any way I want to?

Are you saying the love worked by the Holy Spirit in the heart of those who are born again will love wrongly?

Why would you think that?

Jesus said to love each other the way He loves us. Now knowing Jesus didn't abolish the law,

The revelation of the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2) given through the writers of the NT,
states both that

1) the law as necessary for salvation, which kept the Jews separated from, and hostile to, the Gentiles because of defilement according to the Law, has been abolished (Eph 2:15)

2)and set aside because it was weak and useless to obtain salvation (Heb 7:18-19).

I will use the instructions of the law to know how to love you. Do I have that right?

Why do you need that?

Love worked in the heart by the Holy Spirit is like the natural love in the heart of a mother for her child.
Does she need a myriad of written instructions to know not to let her child play in the street. . .or entertain itself with kitchen matches. . .or to dress it warmly in the cold. . .or. . .?

Why would you think love in the heart by the Holy Spirit would be less?

What is it you are you missing in the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the writers of the NT, in the light of which all Scripture is to be understood?

 

[homwardbound]

So basically you are unable to make a direct yes or no statement about circumcision.

For what it's worth, no one thinks about circumcision when coming to Christ. They believe, repent, and are circumcised in the heart. They don't have a clue that physical circumcision foreshadowed this. You can't teach them to be circumcised in the heart because it's something that's already happened.

Just what was the purpose of your post?

maybe, so we now can be aware of the operation of God and what God does as a free gift to us through the cross of Son? if we believe god to have done it all for us that is. Because through Christ God has?

 

[Elin]

Elin, I say enmity was abolished, but not by throwing out the law. Here is what you say is abolished in Ephesians.

But what you say is not what Ephesians says.

This reminds me when we went round and round about the sins of Nadab and Abihu. Remember that?

I remember having the diagoue, but I don't remember with whom.

 

[homwardbound]

The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold

Luke 1

5There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

God bless...

They walked by Faith (belief) and heard our living God, as all who do believe receive and walk as Christ walked through being led by God by the Spirit of promise after that very first day we believed Eph 1:13

 

[Elin]

That is not true.

God did not say I promise to give you it all. then my Job is done.
He said I give it to you forever. As an eternal possession.

Isreal is not in her land enjoying the promises now because of lev 26. But if they repented as the conditions of lev 26 demand, they would be returned.

To say it is already complete is dangerous. He promised us an eternal inheritance too. It would suck if he took that way now wouldn't it.

And then he says in his revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2),
given through the NT writers,

1) that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not receive a foot of ground in the land
promised to them forever (Ac 7:5),
2) but that God still did not break his promise to them of an eternal possession,
3) because they weren't looking for earthly land,
4) they were looking for a better land, a heavenly land,
5) which they have received in the eternal heavenly city God prepared for them (Heb 11:13-16).

Josh 21:43-45 (full possession), 1Kgs 4:21, 24-25 (full occupation) and Heb 11:13-16 (eternal possession) reveal that God's promise of an eternal possession to his people has been fulfilled,
and no further land promise remains to Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And then he says in his revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2),
given through the NT writers,

1) that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not receive a foot of ground in the land
promised to them forever (Ac 7:5),
2) but that God still did not break his promise to them of an eternal possession,
3) because they weren't looking for earthly land,
4) they were looking for a better land, a heavenly land,
5) which they have received in the eternal heavenly city God prepared for them (Heb 11:13-16).

Josh 21:43-45 (full possession), 1Kgs 4:21, 24-25 (full occupation) and Heb 11:13-16 (eternal possession) reveal that God's promise of an eternal possession to his people has been fulfilled,
and no further land promise remains to Israel.

1. God told them they would not posses it (but your descendants will be strangers in a forign land because the sin of the ammorites is not yet complete)
2. They knew they would never posses it. thus would not look for it.
3. if what you say is true, lev 26 changes in a huge way. it means that the blessings and cursings of the mosaic law are not for land, but for eternity. which means we All better do what many in here are saying and obey the laws of god because our eternity depends on it.

again, If Gods promise to them is not forever, it is not assured we have eternal life either.

edit.. just to note.

the promise given to abraham and his descendants who come after him was physical land, he even spelled it out for him. that land is here on earth, thus as long as that land still exists. the promise is still in effect.

It was not an eternal spiritual land in heaven they were promised. this land is promised to anyone who comes to christ whether your a physical descendnant or not.. This is different than the land only promised and given to his line through isaac and jacob and his 12 sons..

thus it CAN NOT be the eternal land you speak of.. sorry sis. i just can not buy it

 

[Sanashankar]

This thread is dedicated for all, to recive a clear picture of which Laws are still in used today that God permits, if you have any to share please do, and please give an explanation on why the law still is in effect today in this age thank you and God bless

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

I belive it is to respect , the Overseers & Deacons when they are preaching the word of God to the congregation.

God bless

The law of liberty.

Ja 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The things that Jesus commanded on the mount that is the law. From Matthew 5:20 to Matthew 6:7. i missed a lot, but i think that's the main points. and then everything that the apostles asked us to do. We all just ignore the "do" in the below verse

Phl 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

 

[just-me]

But what you say is not what Ephesians says.


I remember having the diagoue, but I don't remember with whom.

Elin, One has no right to abolish what God has ordained forever.

1 Peter 1:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

And Peter quotes Isaiah 40:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Forever is profound, wouldn’t you say?

Ephesians 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

This is what Ephesians says, and it doesn’t contradict what I said, or the many scriptures that I last posted to you.
Jesus took in His body what was actively opposed and hostile to us occasioned by the Law, along with the commands set forth in the form of ordinances. He didn’t kill the law of God, He died with the sin that the law exposed. He did this in order to create a union of peace with himself and two groups being the Jews and gentiles. The peace was achieved because of this common belief. If the law were abolished, Paul wouldn’t have written the “law is our schoolmaster” to the Galatians. He would have probably written the ‘Holy Spirit is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ’ because we are drawn by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:21-22 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

One must keep in mind that the law is not against God’s purpose. Even today, the law exposes our falling short. Falling short is human nature, and because we believe in the Word of God, we see our need for Christ. Take away what shows us our need and we won’t see the necessity of the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[Elin]

Obviously you are neglecting some key scriptures which I have reckoned with and I would like you to reckon with them also, in truth.

1. Jesus says that didn't come to destroy the law, and heaven and earth are still intact.
Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

That was addressed here (post #100) and here (post #219).

Galatians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

John 5:36-37 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 10:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I and my Father are one.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

John 17:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Some of these are redundant to what I have mentioned previously. Putting these scriptures together in proper context says one thing.
If we reject any part of the Word of God, we are missing the persuasion of the purpose of God.

And as I've pointed out to you before, the Word of God includes all the revelation spoken by the Son
in these last days, given through the writers of the NT.

Since all of the OT and the NT are the word of God, they will not contradict one another,
and therefore to set the OT against the NT is a faulty hermeneutic.

Because the revelation given through the writers of the NT is the revelation spoken by the Son
in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), it is superior to the former revelation given by the prophets
in the past days, which was spoken "at many times"(occasionally), and not all during the lifetime of only one prophet,
and "in various ways" (fragmentarily), not being the full and complete revelation of the Son,
the NT is, therefore, the light in which all Scripture is to be understood.

And framing the revelation of the Son, given through the writers of the NT, in a way
that sets the Scriptures against themselves, or rejects the OT, is either a
self-serving ploy to deny the NT, or
a faulty hermeneutic which interprets the Scriptures wrongly,
or both.

Neither one is Biblical.

Galatians 6:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Accepting the sovereignty of God and His foreknowledge, I sincerely believe that He knew from the very beginning that everything He said to Moses and the prophets would never change or be negated.

The revelation of the Son, given the writers of the NT, is the one who changed it.

Isaiah 40:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
2 John 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

This is the Mosaic Law, for if it is abolished, then the instructions of love through Jesus Christ is also abolished, which I can't believe.
Deuteronomy 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:[/quote]

 

[Elin]

1. God told them they would not posses it (but your descendants will be strangers in a forign land because the sin of the ammorites is not yet complete)
2. They knew they would never posses it. thus would not look for it.

Not quite. . .they would not possess it for 400 years because they were going to be in slavery in Egypt.

3. if what you say is true, lev 26 changes in a huge way. it means that the blessings and cursings of the mosaic law are not for land, but for eternity.

The Sinatic Covenant and the Mosaic Law, temporarily added to the former covenant (Ro 5:20;
Gal 4:19) have nothing to do with the land promise.

which means we All better do what many in here are saying and obey the laws of god because our eternity depends on it.

again, If Gods promise to them is not forever, it is not assured we have eternal life either.

That was presented on this page, just a few posts up, at post #455.

I will state it again:

The word of God says in his revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2),
given through the NT writers,

1) that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not receive a foot of ground in the land
promised to them forever (Ac 7:5),
2) but that God still did not break his promise to them of an eternal possession,
3) because they weren't looking for earthly land,
4) they were looking for a better land, a heavenly land,
5) which they have received in the eternal heavenly city God prepared for them (Heb 11:13-16).

Josh 21:43-45 (full possession), 1Kgs 4:21, 24-25 (full occupation) and Heb 11:13-16 (eternal possession) reveal that God's promise of an eternal possession to his people has been fulfilled,
and no further land promise remains to Israel.

edit.. just to note.

the promise given to abraham and his descendants who come after him was physical land, he even spelled it out for him. that land is here on earth, thus as long as that land still exists. the promise is still in effect.

It was not an eternal spiritual land in heaven they were promised. this land is promised to anyone who comes to christ whether your a physical descendnant or not.. This is different than the land only promised and given to his line through isaac and jacob and his 12 sons..

thus it CAN NOT be the eternal land you speak of.. sorry sis. i just can not buy it

Your issue is not with me, your issue is with the letter to the Hebrews.

But your real issue is unbelief of the word of God in the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), which is given through the NT writers.