What Laws are still valid to christians

[Married_Richenbrachen]

No one can keep the law that is correct. We still need the grace of God to get to heaven but we also need to attempt to keep the law. It is what all the prophets did. Jesus is a good example in keeping the law.

So you're saying salvation depends on how hard we try? How hard is sufficient to be saved? Remember that God is Holy, and His standard is perfection.

 

[Galatians2-20]

The law was originally given to Moses for two reasons: #1. To reveal God's character, and #2. to prove to mankind that no one can live up to God's standard in the flesh.

Fast forwarding into the New Tesatament, the Apostle Paul states in Romans 7 that it is impossible for any person, other than Christ, to fulfill the moral law. However, in Romans 8 he goes on to say that the indwelling Christ (Holy Spirit) can and will fulfill the law in you and through you.

Romans 8:4 ~ "So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit]."

Romans 13:8-10 ~ "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Galatians 5: 22-25 ~ "But the fruit (characteristics, behavior) of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit."

 

[homwardbound]

Well if prophecy is God's spokesperson and love is the way then we have many prophets in OT, who are (yes they are still speaking figuratively) able to love as described in 1 Cor 13:4-7, to learn from.
Let's see.
Love is patient - yes I keep my cool and explain what I know again and again and again just like Jesus.
Love is kind - see I'm kind to those agreeing with me!
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud - no I'm humble as can be.
It does not dishonor others - am I not doing a great job here or what?
it is not self-seeking - we are all grown-ups here so no identity crisis.
It's not easily angered - no, I'm not angry. If I do it's all righteous anger.
it keeps no record of wrongs - I don't remember saying anything wrong ever.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth - and rejoice all the more with like minded.[SUP]
[/SUP]It always protects - here the Bible taught me to get offensive protecting my truth.
always trusts - that I'm the only one inspired by the Holy Spirit.
always hopes - that others slip so I can attack.
always perseveres - hoping others get tired arguing so I win.
Not bad I'd say.

Yeah, cute and I am just a laughing away, it is what it is, Love you deeper than you know. For me I could not love as God loves until I first saw this:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

then came this:
Ephesians 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Ephesians 3:18
may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Ephesians 3:19 and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

So I received this:
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Colossians 1:22
in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Colossians 1:23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


[h=3]Thanks for your posts[/h]

 

[homwardbound]

You could apply Pascal's wager on following the law. There is so much evidence that points to the law being valid today. Jesus telling his followers to learn the law from the Pharisees (do as they say not do). The apostles continued to follow the law long after Jesus ascended. (Peter referring to unclean meat) What if you got it wrong when it comes to the law ?

And God said do not call anything unclean that I(God) have cleaned, the three dreams of Peter and then led to the Gentile house and went in, when it is unlawful to do that, as he even said this to Cornelius. Yes the Law is still in place, the Law of Love God's type not flesh type. Spirit is what we are called to be born again in the Spirit of God, and this is only done through Christ at the cross, where all sin has been dealt with So God can give us a new life in the Spirit of God. And quit being of the selfish flesh

 

[homwardbound]

No one can keep the law that is correct. We still need the grace of God to get to heaven but we also need to attempt to keep the law. It is what all the prophets did. Jesus is a good example in keeping the law.

Jesus walked by Faith, in 100% dependent on God, via the Holy Ghost, he by this fulfilled the Mosaic Law and brought back in the original Covenant that was made between Abraham and God in the order of Melchizadek
First by his death on the cross he brought in this Covenant, new one, in
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth

Now we are in a new priesthood:
Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

And have new Law:
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This new law is the law of belief in the Son, Christ, where we receive the new birth in the Spirit of God, and thus the Law of love is spread abroad in our new hearts that God GAVE us, a free gift to all that believe God at his word. We are iving on this side of the cross, after not before. There is a big difference.
Before the cross under the perfect law, that is a curse to flesh and blood, since flesh can't do it
After where it is finished fulfilled for us in Christ the Savior unto God the Father, for life everlasting
So I enter his courts as King David did
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
Thanks

 

[homwardbound]

The law was originally given to Moses for two reasons: #1. To reveal God's character, and #2. to prove to mankind that no one can live up to God's standard in the flesh.

Fast forwarding into the New Tesatament, the Apostle Paul states in Romans 7 that it is impossible for any person, other than Christ, to fulfill the moral law. However, in Romans 8 he goes on to say that the indwelling Christ (Holy Spirit) can and will fulfill the law in you and through you.

Romans 8:4 ~ "So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit]."

Romans 13:8-10 ~ "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Galatians 5: 22-25 ~ "But the fruit (characteristics, behavior) of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit."

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheAristocat]

How do we keep in step with the Spirit? In your opinion is it supposed to be automatic when one becomes saved?

 

[nl]

We can seek the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil as Adam and Eve sinfully did in the Garden of Eden or we can seek the Tree of Life.

The true knowledge of good and evil is discerned. It is understood by discernment of facts and of the spirit of the law rather than knowledge of the letter of the law.

Hebrews 5:15 speaks of those who are mature and not babies who "who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

We all have a different base of knowledge and experience. We all need to walk according to our own consciences and discernment in determining good and evil.


Love is the fulfillment of the law. Love is a challenge. Love includes kindness, patience and some level of suffering as it did for Jesus.

The last chapter of the Bible maintains a focus on the importance of keeping the commandments of God. It says that blessed are they that do his commands.

As I read it, only those that do his commandments have right to the tree of life. As I read it, only they that do his commandments may enter in through the gates into the city.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

 

[TheAristocat]

We all need to walk according to our own consciences and discernment in determining good and evil.

Do you mean that we can not entirely know what good and evil is, so we must do our best not to do that which offends our consciences (i.e. walk according to our consciences)? What are the commandments you refer to and how do we keep them? I appreciate the response.

 

[nl]

Take, for example, the issue of eating meat or drinking wine. Whether it is good or evil depends for one upon our discernment of the condition of our neighbor. If it doesn't bother your neighbor and you have a clear conscience about it, then eat meat and drink wine. Otherwise, don't.

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother is stumbled, or is offended, or is made weak. (Romans 14:21)

Concerning commands of Christ, search your Bible and you will find. There are more than a few of them. They include:
* Love God
* Love your neighbor
* Take up your cross and follow Me.
* Make disciples, teach them to obey all that I have commanded you, baptize them.
* Do this is remembrance of Me.
* Pray in secret
* Let your light shine
* Go the second mile
* Turn the other cheek
* Love your enemies
* Seek first the kingdom of God
* Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
* Pray for laborers to be sent into the harvest fields (Luke 10:2)
* Honor your parents
* Watch and pray
* ... more...

 

[TheAristocat]

Take, for example, the issue of eating meat or drinking wine. Whether it is good or evil depends for one upon our discernment of the condition of our neighbor. If it doesn't bother your neighbor and you have a clear conscience about it, then eat meat and drink wine. Otherwise, don't.

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother is stumbled, or is offended, or is made weak. (Romans 14:21)

Concerning commands of Christ, search your Bible and you will find. There are more than a few of them. They include:
* Love God
* Love your neighbor
* Take up your cross and follow Me.
* Make disciples, teach them to obey all that I have commanded you, baptize them.
* Do this is remembrance of Me.
* Pray in secret
* Let your light shine
* Go the second mile
* Turn the other cheek
* Love your enemies
* Seek first the kingdom of God
* Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
* Pray for laborers to be sent into the harvest fields (Luke 10:2)
* Honor your parents
* Watch and pray
* ... more...

Ok. So in your opinion there are rules in the NT by the which we can measure our actions. Like looking into a mirror and seeing what we need to change about ourselves or work on a little more.

 

[nl]

It may not fit popular, modern theologies but the last chapter of the Bible, Revelation 22, also has Jesus speaking about rewards according to works.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Jesus: Have faith in Me.

 

[Galatians2-20]

How do we keep in step with the Spirit? In your opinion is it supposed to be automatic when one becomes saved?

By following Christ's example. Jesus did not seek after His own will (the desires of His human flesh which was tempted all ways as an ordinary human) but rather He only did what He saw the Father doing (through the Spirit). That is why scripture states that the Holy Spirit will always speak of Christ because Jesus is our example of what a human indwelt by the Spirit of God should conduct themselves.

 

[chubbena]

Anytime the word "law" is used. It was understood to mean the WHOLE law. If God, or the apostles wanted us to think it was just part of the law. they would have told us.

Is this from theology or from the Bible?

 

[chubbena]

under the Law it was unlawful for Peter to even enter a Gentile house, In Acts where Peter came there by the lead of God, and said this to Cornelius, about how it is unlawful, yet God told him that God has cleaned all things and not to call anything unclean.
And as Paul also says;
Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean

So tell me could this have anything to do with how I handle the clean things. Love God's way or my selfish attitude of the flesh that I was originally born with?
And Peter entered the house and preached and the Holy Ghost came upon them as well as the first chosen, even before any water Baptism. Now if they had not been water Baptized after the reception of the Holy Ghost from God a gift from God. Would God have withdrawn this gift?
Just some food for thought?

Acts 10:28 Peter understood the vision differently. He said "...but God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean."
Romans 14:14 - the context was about abstaining from meat but I think many have addressed that here.

 

[chubbena]

Is your question a question?

I thought you knew Peter said Paul's letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction. No where in the Bible said Peter's letters are hard to understand so is this your idea or what?

 

[chubbena]

Your point?

Thought I already said - the Bible didn't say Cornelius offered Peter the unclean to eat. I found it interesting that this verse is used to support the idea that Peter started to eat the unclean.

 

[chubbena]

I'm wondering what knowing this mindset so well reveals. . .

Indeed. Who knows better than I do?

 

[chubbena]

Yeah, cute and I am just a laughing away, it is what it is, Love you deeper than you know. For me I could not love as God loves until I first saw this:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

then came this:
Ephesians 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Ephesians 3:18
may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Ephesians 3:19 and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

So I received this:
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Colossians 1:22
in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Colossians 1:23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


Thanks for your posts

and this - Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends and yet, very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die, but God demonstrated his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners (and I add, and his enemies), Christ died for us.
Our difference though, as I saw in other posts, is the view about the clean/unclean and the Sabbath. Hopefully we are able to reason in love.

 

[Yury]

Does any flesh other than Christ's ever please God, before Christ and or after?

Nobody's flesh ever please God.

John 6:63 The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help! The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Can anyone see the kingdom of Heaven without the Born again Spirit that is given by God?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Does the flesh Spirit to this day still war after the Spirit of God?

I don't understad that question. What do you mean?