What Laws are still valid to christians

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

Are you saying those who say that

the law which is written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Heb 8:10),
is not the Mosaic law with its curse (Dt 27:26),
but is Christ's law of love, which fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10),

are nullifying the law in order to nullify their guilt of sin?

Do you know the NT?

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1Jn 1:8).

just-me · Oct 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

To answer your last question. Yes. But there is a way to reconcile. Think about this verse. Did God hate Esau as a person, or did He hate what Esau did? God is love, but actions that are against His will He hates.

Malachi 1:2-3 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:11-15 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP](For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
[SUP]12 [/SUP]It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

homwardbound · Oct 10, 2013

just-me said:

Which controlled the people, using truth to get them under their control, and had done this very well, until Christ showed up and exposed them, not by accusations direct, but by telling truth, that the people saw no other talk as he talked and did as he did, with miracles and all.
So the people left their synagogues, searching after this Christ after the Pharisees and religious leaders put him out, not being taught by them, thus showing truth in their faults.
So then after Lazarus was raised back to life by Christ, many more Jews came to belief that Christ was and is sent from God the Father.
So then because of thinking that they were going to be out of their jobs, no one coming to synagogue, no income coming in, they sought to kill Jesus and still look good in front of the people.
So Job security killed Christ? Is anything new under the Son. We are to receive from God new life in the Spirit of God a free gift to all that believe. And thus are made righteous in God's favor, not man's.
Thanks

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

just-me said:

So the law that was changed and "set aside because it was weak and useless

to make righteous" (Heb 7:18-19) was just the one law establishing the Levitical priesthood?

The rest of the law was still useful and powerful to make righteous?

Your explanation does not fit the text.

The whole law was weak and useless to make righteous, not just the law establishing the Levitical priesthood.

homwardbound · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

So clearly Yahshua is against these Pharisical laws in the Talmud. So why is it 8 chapters later He tells us to "do all they say?"

Something is not right here. I was always bothered by this verse, until the truth set me free.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

THIS IS THE BURDEN!

And it is God's love that sums it all up in Love God's type. that God spreads abroad in our whole new being, following God by the Spirit of God placed in us, at the heart transplant that God freely gives to those that believe God, and permeates us through and through yes?

homwardbound · Oct 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

Thanks well said, and is truth beyond measure. Please Father straighten me out in any wrong interpretations from you, thanks, for I know you will, because you are the one that gives the increase, while all the rest of us are no more than planter and waterers, Thanks

homwardbound · Oct 10, 2013

Elin said:

Okay, just thought it was important to point what I pointed out, and thank you.

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

RickShafer said:

Not quite, Rick.

The partition of Eph 2:15 is the law, particularly the food laws, which made the Gentiles unclean
to the Jews.

The partition is not Jesus.

Jesus abolished the partition, which was not himself, and which separated the Jews from the Gentiles,
in his flesh on the cross.

RickShafer · Oct 10, 2013

Listen, the law is a schoolmaster.
What does it do?
Shows the perfection of God, and the great gulf between the Holiness of God and the sin nature of mankind.
What does it also do? Points the chosen to Jesus Christ.
The chosen are given the grace to believe on Him, and His blood changes the chosen. - (Because the life is in the blood)
He sent the Comforter to cleave to the chosen(called out ones).
The paracleate leads His chosen into His life. (The life is in the blood).
The chosen are thus received into His person(as exemplified by a body being attached to a head).
The head is Jesus, the body are His chosen.
They become one as He and the Father are one.
It is all by grace.
Without grace no man is part of the body of Christ.
Many try to please God, only Jesus pleases God the Father.
And only those who are called out to be his body(or bride, to use a different metaphor) are accepted.
Case closed.
All the works of mankind are but filthy rags.
Only Jesus is accepted, and only those chosen to receive the grace to believe on Him as their only sustenance(savior) have
any part of Him.

john832 · Oct 10, 2013

Elin said:

Are you saying that Heb 8:8-11 is not a direct quote from Jer 31:31-34?

And are you saying that the word for Law in Jer 31:33 in not Torah? Or are you just saying that it is, but it really means something else?

Actually, I do.

From the same book...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 10, 2013

just-me said:

well not to be rude. but I am not sure how this even answeres the last point.

secondly. God did not Hate Esau the person. That is not the context of malachi, the context is isreal the nation, vs edom the nation (also called esau and jacob)

thirdly, the word hate in scripture does not always mean hate, it can also mean "love less" As an example. God says to love our spouse. Yet God also says to hate them or else we can not relate with him. Did God literally say to HATE our spouse?

God has a love for all mankind. But there will always be more of a love for his adopted children who he has a personal relationship with.

finally, per romans 9. Who is righteous in the eyes of God? Those who do good. or those who have been forgiven of their transgressions and given the HS?

Now. I ask again, I still do not have clarification as to what yo meant by separation? and would like you to revisit the examples I gave, not just the one example. Does a friend not relate in other areas, even though one area might cause a separation ()when doing those things)

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

Josh321 said:

this is what FULFILLMENT truly means, this is what is meant when it said God came to fulfill the commandments, when someone receives christ they receive that fulfillment of the laws, how you may ask, by the rebirth, i know your probably fed up of me talking about myself and how i was but i really want you to see what i mean, before i was like this before i knew God, i did exactly what the bible said i would do because i was a gentile, who by nature does the things contained in the law, which means i would covet and not have any care about doing it, i would look at every woman and covet, i would say the lord's name in vain, i hated certain people and had no love in me i live a lustful lifestyle and had no conviction about it i just didn't care because i thought it was normal.. BUT look at how God is amazing and every word of the bible is the truth God came to fulfill the law through his spirit, now look at this as God saved me everything just changed i would look at woman and literally cry and ask God to forgive them i couldn't stand to see woman dress like that, i couldn't stand to hate i only had love in me, now if that isn't fulfillment idk what is, HE DID EXACTLY what he said he came to do TO FULFILL, and that is exactly what happens to every true born again christian THAT IS WHY since the law is already fulfilled in us THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH, AND WALK IN LOVE!

I am transfixed by the power of God completely transforming a human heart!

homwardbound · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

[h=3]2 Corinthians 12:7-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Josh321 · Oct 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

My dear brother... many of my friends are trapped in exactly what you said, they haven't been born again but they believe once they keep the sabbath they are saved, they run about having sex and living an adulturous lifestyle drinking partying, i use to be among them but as the sabbath comes they act all holy it's like they believe once they keep that particular day sacred they are saved, it pains me in my heart to see this... i would make a joke once and a while with some of them and say going partying tonight? and some would say nah boy it's sad can't do anything like that maybe tomorrow night, this is the biggest deception the devil has ever use to deceive the people and i can't dare say anything against them if i do bring up something they would say but the 10 commandments say keep the sabbath holy so we doing.. while they living a filthy lifestyle... burns my heart to see this

john832 · Oct 10, 2013

Elin said:

What was the partition?

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

From top to bottom...

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mar 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

What did the veil do? It kept humans from accessing the Holy of Holies (the pattern {Heb 8:5} of God's throne). Only the High Priest could enter onces a year on the Day of Atonement (might be a little symbolism there also). The partition kept man from direct access to the Father. Christ made the access to the Father possible by this...

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The partition was not any Law at all. It was the fact that sinful man could not come into the presence of the Father until Christ reconciled him by dying and cleansing him with His blood. This is the type...

Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

And this did not make the accesss to the Father available to man...

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now I will ask you the same question you ask in post #1341, do you even know the N.T.?

eternally-gratefull · Oct 10, 2013

Josh321 said:

I see this with alot of people who are stuck in legalistic mode.

The pick and chose which parts of the law to follow. And do not see the ones they are breaking, and think they somhow have made themselves right with God because they follow the laws they follow.

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

just-me said:

Well. . .preached does not really compare to anything.

It is simply the way the seed is planted by hearing.

Josh321 · Oct 10, 2013

unless you admit to yourself that something is wrong that spirit of bondage would never leave you... some people are in bondage to the 10 commandments and can't admit it or see pass it, the fact that my fellow brothers and sisters are bring facts, written word.. from the bible that explains everything we talking about but yet you can't see to accept it would tell you soemthing, it's like telling someone with an addiction that they are addicted they would try to justify themselves but in the end run straight back where they started, why would they do that, despite knowing that, smoking kills, it's the spirit of bondage that keeping them like that.. alot of people have that same spirit of bondage also the fact that you can't accept the written word of God should tell you something, over the past few months i've made countless trades showing everyone through the scriptures what i was saying was the truth, but they just can't accept it DESPITE SEEING IT WITH THEIR eyes and reading it for themselves, i wonder why.

homwardbound · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

i agree and I also want to add that *I BELIEVE* someone who says they believe but still walks in the ways Yahweh says not to, does not really believe, they might believe that He exist, but they dont really believe, if they believed they would do. and im not singling anyone out here.

my whole life i have been a so called "christian" but continued to walk against what the Scriptures said, going to church and never hearing ssin condemmed, just its ok your saved! but never once: Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you"

It was not until I studied the Scriptures for about 4 years with NO outside influence, just Scripture and prayer that I actually changed. all those years I dont think I ever really accepted the Messiah, I did the "repeat after me prayer" but now i can see a difference in who I am, and im more a peace and joy than ever, and I want all to caome to this place and even surpass it, thats why i speak obedience and seriousness, I have been cleansed, the Messiah has done His part noe I have to do my part through the Spirit of Yahweh.

HalleluYAHWEH!

So, then what does one do? Daily die to self and be alive to God in the Spirit of God where no sin can occur?
Or daily try to behave in the Spirit of God developing my own self-righteousness as to what I do well and what I do not do well

Josh321 · Oct 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

it's terrible to see...all i can do is thank God i got raised in a wonderful family, what i mean is some people didn't had a choice they grew up believing what their parents believing to be the truth and it keeps going on and on.. that religious spirit building up for years, and what's even worst they damn themselves eternal when they witness the works of the holy spirit but still reject it and go back to their creed

What Laws are still valid to christians

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