What Laws are still valid to christians

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Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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In the context of our previous discussion....

Jesus told His followers to follow the Law and to teach others to do so. Because Paul is anointed by God to speak His truth, Paul also teaches that Christians should follow the Law. If anyone thinks that Paul teaches against the Law, even though Jesus clearly states we should follow the Law, those people would be elevating Paul OVER Jesus. My response if that is the case?

Jesus is my God.
Paul isn't.
Thus, Jesus > Paul
are you a Jew or a gentile? if your a Jew then by all means follow the law because the bible said the jews eyes aren't open to realise that God came and died for us already so they are still under the old testament, jesus was born under the law that is why he had to follow it but when he died the law was fulfilled in him through the holy spirit, so that it can be fulfilled in is, that is why it is written in the bible [h=3]Romans 10:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


[h=3]Galatians 2:21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


i honestly do understand where the confusion comes from because it's so close together but yet so far


[h=3]Galatians 5:4-6[/h]English Standard Version (ESV)

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[a] by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

must be born again, to gain knowledge and understanding, Good night and godbless

 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,041
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are you a Jew or a gentile? if your a Jew then by all means follow the law because the bible said the jews eyes aren't open to realise that God came and died for us already so they are still under the old testament, jesus was born under the law that is why he had to follow it but when he died the law was fulfilled in him through the holy spirit, so that it can be fulfilled in is, that is why it is written in the bible Romans 10:4

King James Version (KJV)

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


Galatians 2:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


i honestly do understand where the confusion comes from because it's so close together but yet so far


Galatians 5:4-6

English Standard Version (ESV)

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[a] by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

must be born again, to gain knowledge and understanding, Good night and godbless

I'm not Jewish, so probably "gentile".

And Jesus told His followers, whether Jew or Gentile, to follow the Law.

And because Paul's words must line up with Jesus' words, all of those verses from Paul must be referring to something else, because surely Paul wouldn't disagree with Jesus.
 
M

Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
if your a Jew then by all means follow the law because the bible said the jews eyes aren't open to realise that God came and died for us already so they are still under the old testament
Lol. What?

And Jesus told His followers, whether Jew or Gentile, to follow the Law.

And because Paul's words must line up with Jesus' words, all of those verses from Paul must be referring to something else, because surely Paul wouldn't disagree with Jesus.
Did you guys even read the past 114 pages? Or are you just trying to win by posting your own view as many times as possible, without considering any evidence to the contrary? ;)

I don't think that's how these threads are supposed to work. :D
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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It is strange that "the evening (sunset) and the morning (sunrise) " are counted as a day, but yes we do know it to be sunset to sunset. Regarding the three days Jesus was in the grave, I was referring to most Christians who believe He was crucified "Good" Friday and rose on "Easter" Sunday.
From Dr. Bullinger...

Genesis 1:5


called. Occurs 5 times. App-5.

evening . . . morning. Figure of speech Synecdoche (of the Part), App-6. Put for a full day. The beginning and end of anything is put for the whole of it. Compare Ecc_3:11; Ecc_10:13; Ecc_11:6. Psa_92:2. Isa_41:4; Isa_44:6; Isa_48:12. Rev_1:8, Rev_1:11, Rev_1:17; Rev_2:8; Rev_21:6; Rev_22:13.

first. For spiritual significance see App-10.

first day = day one. The word "day" may refer to a prolonged period when used without any qualifying words. But when qualified with a numeral (cardinal or ordinal) it is defined and limited by it to a day of 24 hours. It is further limited here by its boundaries "evening and morning", as well as by the 7th day. Compare Exo_20:9, Exo_20:11. See App-11.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The "commandments" in 1 John 3:22 are not the Mosaic Law. Rather, they are "the law of liberty", which are the NT teachings which we obey by the grace of God.

People can be related to the eternal, unchangeable, moral absolutes of God without being under the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law; and it is possible to be free from the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law without being lawless.
Oh, in other words, Christ spoke the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai then forgot what He said and gave new ones?

2Jn 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Same Commandments from the beginning...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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I would venture to say She obeys all of Gods commands when she looks to the spirit.

She does not water down Gods commands to just ten like you do.
Hmmm, watered down to ten...

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Christ seemed to think this was enough. It is you who think there is something different.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Well of course they have.

They were not doing what God wanted them to do during that time, Instead they were focused on self. and in doing so. doing things which would pleasure self. Anything we do in this is sin, We do not need the law to show us this. For even the heathen understand this is sin.
You keep posting opinion without scriptural backing. Oh wait, I see why...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

There is no scriptural backing for your opinions.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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Yes, It includes things like going and making disciples. Loving our neighbor. Loving our christian family. Serving those who God has put in our lives.

But mr john here just think it is not doing what God said not to do.

He is still focused on self. thats why he does not get it.
And again, opinion without scripture, God shows us what love is...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

but you have your own definitions, I'll leave you to them.
 
L

Linda70

Guest
There are 613 commandments (not just 10) written into the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law is an indivisible unit...you break one, and you are guilty of breaking all of them:

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

In Acts 15:10, Peter said:Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

It's obvious that the Jews were not even able to keep the law ....and if you want to live under the "yoke" of the Mosaic Law, you either keep all the law, or you are under the "curse" of the law (Gal. 3:10; James 2:10). The more you try and keep the law, the more that law will condemn you (Romans 7). However, there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Do you live according to Romans 8 or are you still struggling to keep the law and live according to Romans 7?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Thanks for the warning but who is trying to be righteous by the law and who obeys the law is being forced here in this thread?
On the other hand, do you see Paul your mentor said he believes everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets. Do you understand what he's saying?
Yeah I do. But it is obvious alot of people in here do not.

He agrees with the law. It did what it was supposed to do. it spoke of Jesus, and should have shown Israel when He came that he was the one they were looking for. They did not, because they thought the law is what made them good moral people and acceptable to God.

Are you going to sit there and tell me Paul walked around 24 7 worrying about the ten commandments and other commands God gave to moses to give to the people of Israel? I am quite sure paul had more important things on his mind. Like loving the people he went to. Showing these people Christ. Being a servant of God. Not offending the gentiles by trying to impose the things of the law on them. But showing Gods mercy grace and forgiveness.

But hey. If you want to think the law can make you a good moral person. When it failed to do this with the jews. Feel free to try and see if you can do what they were unable to do.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oh, in other words, Christ spoke the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai then forgot what He said and gave new ones?

2Jn 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Same Commandments from the beginning...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
you missed the whole point of what jesus said.

what is the beginning first off? It would be the time of adam. LONG before the law was given to moses.

Jesus said, Love fulfills the commands. This is the commandment (singular) that you LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

Is love not breaking the law?? no..

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;

Love is not going to a person, and thinking, Do not commit adultry. So (according to the law) if I do not think sexual thoughts of her. I am loving her. Love does not go around and think. Do not covet. So if I do not covet what she has, I am loving her.

Love looks at her, and says Praise God for what he has blessed her with. Love looks at her, and says What Can I do to serve her. And in thinking in this frame of mind (not the law) I will fulfill the commands of the law. Because I AM NOT EVEN THINKING THEM TO BE TEMPTED BY THEM! And my mind is OUTWARD FOCUSED. Not thinking what I can do to PLEASE myself at her account. Which is what adultry and coveting is. Self..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hmmm, watered down to ten...

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Christ seemed to think this was enough. It is you who think there is something different.

there are many commands God has given from the time of adam until the completion of scripture.

You water it down to ten.

God gave them ten just to PROVE they could not follow these ten.. That is why it is called a schoolmaster.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You keep posting opinion without scriptural backing. Oh wait, I see why...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

There is no scriptural backing for your opinions.
lol..

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.


[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Thats funny. According to paul .Since the creation of time. Men knew all these things were sin.

PS.. How many sins are mentioned here? Alot more than ten. So even these men understood there were more than ten commands. LONG before they were even given to moses.

Paul is talking about the command which was given to point to Christ. Not the command which was given to prove one is separated from god. Even Abraham understood those commands..

Scripture does not support your view!
 
Sep 4, 2012
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And Jesus told His followers, whether Jew or Gentile, to follow the Law.

And because Paul's words must line up with Jesus' words, all of those verses from Paul must be referring to something else, because surely Paul wouldn't disagree with Jesus.
You guys sure play fast and loose with the facts. Did you make this up, or did you read it on a law-cultist website (where I suspect most of this garbage comes from)?

Jesus hardly ever spoke with gentiles; you cannot show me anywhere in the bible where he told them to keep the law of Moses. And his appointed messengers who succeeded him, when given the opportunity to instruct the gentiles to follow the law of Moses, specifically ruled against doing so.

Peter, the head of the apostles, stated that they would be tempting GOD to burden gentiles with the law of Moses. And yet you law cultists continually tempt GOD by placing stumbling blocks before the brethren by teaching them that GOD wants them to follow the law of Moses. All who do this are living under a curse.

Cursed is every man that continues not in all the words of this law to do them: and all the people shall say, So be it. Deuteronomy 27:26

If we or an angel from heaven should proclaim a gospel to you contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let him be accursed! As we said before, and now I say again, if anyone is proclaiming a gospel to you contrary to what you have received, let him be accursed! Galatians 1:8-9​
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And again, opinion without scripture, God shows us what love is...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

but you have your own definitions, I'll leave you to them.
lol. On the contrary. I seek God wants me to do. Not what God does not want me to do. if I am seeking what God commanded me to do. I will not break the other commands where God said do not do this.

Your problem here is you ASSUME the word "commandments" here only speak of ten. Again, God has given many commands.

the most important one is believe in the one he sent. This is not one of the ten. So I can assume according to your fualty belief, since there is only ten, we do not even have to do this command of God.

Have fun with that one!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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This post is directed at everyone who is Lawless, O love you, wake up my brothers and sisters, dont ignore the words of the Messiah.

There are 613 commandments (not just 10) written into the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law is an indivisible unit...you break one, and you are guilty of breaking all of them:

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
If you hate and reject the Law, thus not submitting to it, and forinicate will you not suffer the curse? (An STD)

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth alanguish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Nope still true, as Isayah is an endtime prophecy.

Also are you saying Yahshua said those who put themselevs to follow the Law are cursed?

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

In Acts 15:10, Peter said:Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Acts 15 is not about how one shold walk post accepting, its about those coming it to accept Yahshua, and there is no pre-requisite, any one can accept His blood no matter how filthy they are, all one has to do is accept. A NEW WAY PAST THE VAIL, the pharisees didnt see this

It's obvious that the Jews were not even able to keep the law ....and if you want to live under the "yoke" of the Mosaic Law, you either keep all the law, or you are under the "curse" of the law (Gal. 3:10; James 2:10). The more you try and keep the law, the more that law will condemn you (Romans 7). However, there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Do you live according to Romans 8 or are you still struggling to keep the law and live according to Romans 7?
To be walking in the Messiah one must :

1 Yahchanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked."

Its not just a automtic I accepted the Messiah so no matter what I do im not condemmed. That doctrine is what Yahdah (Jude) condemms in Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

Also you stop at Romans 8:4?...

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

And we have to always cross check everyones words against Yahshua's words:

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:

#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness


Nope its not a "justified by Law" conversation, its a those who wont submit to Yahweh's Law are walking in the flesh and can not please Yahweh and will be told by Yahshua to get away from Him...

According to these Scriptures there is no denying this, unless you make up your own meanings for iniquity ans the Law of Yahweh.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
This post is directed at everyone who is Lawless, O love you, wake up my brothers and sisters, dont ignore the words of the Messiah.
Guess it is not directed to anyone in this room then.

Sorry you had to write a long post which no one has to read now..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You guys sure play fast and loose with the facts. Did you make this up, or did you read it on a law-cultist website (where I suspect most of this garbage comes from)?

Jesus hardly ever spoke with gentiles; you cannot show me anywhere in the bible where he told them to keep the law of Moses. And his appointed messengers who succeeded him, when given the opportunity to instruct the gentiles to follow the law of Moses, specifically ruled against doing so.

Peter, the head of the apostles, stated that they would be tempting GOD to burden gentiles with the law of Moses. And yet you law cultists continually tempt GOD by placing stumbling blocks before the brethren by teaching them that GOD wants them to follow the law of Moses. All who do this are living under a curse.

Cursed is every man that continues not in all the words of this law to do them: and all the people shall say, So be it. Deuteronomy 27:26

If we or an angel from heaven should proclaim a gospel to you contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let him be accursed! As we said before, and now I say again, if anyone is proclaiming a gospel to you contrary to what you have received, let him be accursed! Galatians 1:8-9
I hope you do not mind I highlighted and underlined the most important part of that passage.

The words "This Law" Includes every law moses was given. NOT JUST THE TEN COMMANDS given on mount sinia!
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
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lol. On the contrary. I seek God wants me to do. Not what God does not want me to do. if I am seeking what God commanded me to do. I will not break the other commands where God said do not do this.

Your problem here is you ASSUME the word "commandments" here only speak of ten. Again, God has given many commands.

the most important one is believe in the one he sent. This is not one of the ten. So I can assume according to your fualty belief, since there is only ten, we do not even have to do this command of God.

Have fun with that one!
if he got to that part we wouldn't even be discussing this at the moment