What Laws are still valid to christians

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KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist. But the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11​
So the OT writers are greater that John. And in the same boat as the NT writers.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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So following the law is not for justification, or salvation, or to please GOD, but we are to follow the law as long it is the right context. What is that context?



Jesus taught the proper way to 'follow' the law: faith, which follows the spirit instead of the letter.
Please see Post #2619.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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As much as Jesus quoted the OT and used those scriptures in His ministry, it still saddens me. If you do a search of all the places where Jesus referred to the OT, it would be difficult to say that He thought it was a lesser. book.
The foundation of Jesus' whole ministry was the OT.

However, that doesn't alter the fact that the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, is completed revelation in which light the incomplete revelation given by the prophets is to be understood.

Luke 24:27. "And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."
Yes, Moses and the Prophets are correctly understood only in the light of the revelation given by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), through the NT writers.

And your verse in Hebrews doesn't elevate one over the other.
Then you don't understand the import of Hebrews 1-3.

It merely states the different ways that God spoke. It seems to me that anytime God speaks throughout history is equally important.
Importance is not the same as correct understanding.

Jesus had to give the correct understanding of the OT, which was not had at the time, and is had only in the light of the NT word of God.

If revelation is not understood in the light of the NT word of God, that understanding is incorrect and has no importance.
 
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cfultz3

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Can you obey the Spirit while breaking the letter? Of course not.
Very logical.....Of course not.....

Can a man be stealing and still say he is walking according to the Spirit.....
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I can help clarify the matter for you. I'm not in either place.:)

Again, Jesus told His disciples very plainly they were to follow the Law.
Whether you think that it pleases God or not, or even if it should, it ultimately doesn't matter because Jesus told us to follow the law.
He also told us what the law is in Mt 22:37-40; Jn 13:34.
 
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So the writers of the Old Testament didn't receive as much revelation from God as the writers of the New?
Precisely.

OT revelation is incomplete revelation. NT revelation is completed revelation (Lk 24:44; Heb 1:1-2).
 
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cfultz3

Guest
It depends on why anyone thinks we should. I've never once said the entire Law is binding on everyone, and that everyone should do all of it. That's the miscommuincation. As soon as I say I follow commandments in the Law, people assume I have to do all of it. The thing is, I don't follow it because I have to follow all of it. I read through the Scriptures as we all do, and the Spirit says, "Matt, let me show you something. Do this." So I do it. It's the exact same that happens with all of us when we read the NT as well.

I know what the sacrifice truly is. I know who my Priest is. I know where the temple is today. Does it fit exactly with the Law? No. But that doesn't mean I negate all of it because I don't have a field where I can leave the corners unharvested to the poor can glean there. I'm obedient to the things the Spirit lays on my heart. I'm not responsible for any of it until it's laid on my heart. If I were to say that I have to do it as a whole to please God, everyone's concerns would be valid.

But I've never said that.
People would readily agree that we are to keep the percepts, proverbial sayings, and those things which define God's essence. What one define as Law, the other defines as Love. Both understand what Jesus did with the rest of the Law.

Both would agree and say that one cannot be in the process of stealing and still say that he is in compliance to the Spirit.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Truly I say to you, among those born of women
there has not arisen one greater than John
the Baptist. But
the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11
So wouldn't the writers of the OT fall into this same category of being greater than John?
Read it again.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me,
to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
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"This is the work of God: to believe in the one he has sent." (Jn 6:29)

"Repent, and believe the good news!" (Mk 1:16)
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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He also told us what the law is in Mt 22:37-40; Jn 13:34.
After Matthew 5?

And I completely agree that these commandments that He gave are a part of what we are to obey today. I just don't think that's the only thing, and that because of the greatest commandments, we negate the following of the Law.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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I firmly believe that we are to pay high regard to the writings of the old covenant (torah and prophets). But we don't have to. The spirit is able to teach a person how to do GOD's will apart from the old testament.

The new covenant writings are more important because they witness directly of Christ, who is only visible as shadows in the old testament.

One could have only the new testament and do well. If one only had the old testament, it is doubtful that he would do well at all.
Given all of the scriptures, I suppose I can relent on this point, and will reluctantly agree.:mad::)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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We obey the Law to please God...
It is impossible to please GOD with works of law.

Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and is a rewarder of those who seek him. Hebrews 11:6

The law is not out of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3:12​
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Can you obey the Spirit while breaking the letter? Of course not.
Really? Circumcision? The letter says that every male child must be circumcised. Paul said that obedience to Christ (following the spirit) forbade circumcision in the flesh as a means of obedience to law.

The letter says one thing; the spirit says another.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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If the OT writers are in the Kingdom of Heaven, wouldn't they be greater that he?
One has to keep in mind that the Old Testament was still in effect until the death of Christ. Therefore what Jesus taught until that time was the Old Testament. Good point brother
 
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KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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It is impossible to please GOD with works of law.

Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and is a rewarder of those who seek him. Hebrews 11:6

The law is not out of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3:12​
There has to a be a balance for all us with these scriptures, no matter which side of this argument we fall on. Because there are verses that show our faith is what is pleasing to God, but there are also verses that say: I think this concept extends beyond just the Law, but works in general.

[h=3]Colossians 1:10[/h]10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, [a]to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and [b]increasing in the [c]knowledge of God;"


[h=3]James 2:17[/h]17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is [a]dead, being by itself.

I think this concept extends beyond just the Law, but works in general. So how to be balance the two? (this question if for both sides)




 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Because I know from the countless verses in the Bible that I can't earn my salvation. It's simply through grace by faith, not of myself. That's the foundational truth.

Yet Jesus tells us in Matthew 5 to follow the Law. I may not understand completely the relationship between the 2, but I know its there.
jesus tells us in matt 5 to follow more than the law. The law is not complete. as he said, The OLD law says this, But I tell you, it includes this.

And if your gonna follow law. Again, you should follow every part. we can;t pick and chose what to follow and what not to