JEWISH MISSIONS AND MESSIANIC JUDAISM..

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L

Linda70

Guest
#1
JEWISH MISSIONS AND MESSIANIC JUDAISM..

Posted in Israel's Messenger on February 8, 2010

by Moshe Gold and Mark Robinson

There are those who believe that the Messianic Movement is the natural alternative to Christianity for saved Jewish people; one whose members effectively reach other Jewish people with the Gospel. Most who hold this view also believe that the Messianic Synagogue is a Jewish church; a nurturing environment where Messianic Jews express unique New Covenant worship while remaining true to their Jewish identity.

However noble in theory, the Messianic Movement, established in the late 20th century as a response to anti-Jewish sentiment and lack of Jewish Roots teaching in the local church, was founded on sand rather than the Rock. Although this form of Messianic Worship can be attractive to some, many of the customs observed are offensive to Jewish people and opposed to the New Covenant. While empathizing with the desire of many Hebrew Christians to maintain their Jewish identity, we, on biblical grounds, cannot help legitimize this movement. It weakens the Church and is an obstruction to discipleship in sound doctrine. As Jews we should seek an identity that allows us to maintain our ethnic distinctiveness, while at the same time express our New Covenant faith in God through Messiah Jesus in a manner consistent with New Testament teachings.

Jews? Christians? Or Both?

Within Messianic Judaism are those who accept one’s personal revelation or vision of Jesus as proof of salvation in place of repentance and turning to God through Messiah Jesus! Generally, members are insulted to be called Christians, not accepting the term as relevant and even denying that they are part of Christianity (c.f. Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). They call themselves Messianic Jews while defining Christians as non-Jews and Christianity as non-Jewish worship of Jesus. Although non-Jews are often the majority attending these worship centers, they are typically not accepted as equals, but more like “strangers[1]” under the Mosaic Law (cf Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:19). These are broad statements but sadly encompass more than the periphery of the movement.

After reading this, some may say of Jewish Christians, “They have sold out. They are no longer Jews.” We are sons of Israel, who have an intimate, righteous relationship with the God of our Fathers through repentance and the redemption made possible by the willing self-sacrifice of the Messiah; Who being God in human form, offered Himself in our place for our sin. Having partaken of that sacrifice, we have entered into the New Covenant with Gentile people of like faith. We are part of the Church. We are born-again Christians (Hebrew = Meshichi) and our obedience is to God through the New Covenant. We are not bound by the Mosaic Law or Rabbinic Judaism. Yet, we are very much Jewish and understand the difficultly for many Hebrew Christians who want to maintain a Jewish identity apart from Judaism. It can also be confusing for Gentile Christians to separate between the two. Any confusion among Gentile Christians and inner struggle among Hebrew Christians exists because the line between Jewish identity and Rabbinic Judaism has become blurred.

Jewish Identity and Rabbinic Judaism

The blurring of these two accelerated with the return from Babylon. In an effort to keep the Law relevant in a changing world, the Rabbis rendered rulings regulating acceptable Jewish lifestyle. From the Mosaic Law they developed the Mishneh; the tradition of the elders (Matthew 15:2-3). With the religious and social collapse resulting from two failed revolts against Rome, the Mishneh became the basis for the Talmud, the code of religious and social life that is the backbone of Judaism and shaped the cultural identity of the Jewish people. Thus, Jewish identity became directly linked to the practice of Judaism as defined by the Rabbis; hence the term Rabbinic Judaism.

Using Rabbinic Judaism as their basis of Jewish identity, many messianic synagogues are advertised as a place where one can experience true Jewish worship. By choosing to organize their lives and worship according to the rabbinic model, they believe they are faithfully maintaining their cultural distinction as Jews. This is why part of the Messianic Movement considers itself as a sect of Judaism, rather than part of the Church. As faithful Jews, we must remember that our first obligation is to the God of our Fathers and not to the rabbinic fathers! Rather than identifying with religious values established by those who rejected the Messiah, rejected the New Covenant and whose motive was to reinforce observance of the Mosaic Law, let us start with the New Covenant in order to find how to carry our Jewish identity forward into our new life in Messiah.

Jewish Identity and the New Covenant

The New Testament proclaims that the New Covenant is irreconcilable with the Mosaic Law. Although vital in maintaining a national identity, the Mosaic Law’s purpose for individuals was to reveal sin and the impossibility of satisfying the demands of God (Galatians 3:23-25). It was a reminder of bondage (Galatians 4:21-5:1) that ended when the Messiah initiated the New Covenant (Hebrews 10:9-10). In fact, the follower of Jesus is to separate themselves from it (Hebrews 13:10-14) and its traditions, recognizing them to be harmful to the new life (Colossians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:18). The New Covenant replaces the Mosaic Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:13) and offers freedom from the bondage (Galatians 4:1-7) and cycle of sin (Hebrews 12:18-24), as well as the restraints of religion (Hebrews 7:11-19). If one seeks to maintain their Jewish identity let them follow the example of Yeshua and the Apostles who separated their Jewish identity from the Law and Rabbinic Judaism.

Consider Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. He was born, lived and died as a Jew. Even after His resurrection and ascension, He is still recognized as Jewish (Revelation 5:5). Although He perfectly satisfied the Law, His Jewish identity was not dependant on Rabbinic Judaism, which He denounced (Matthew 15:1-11)! Although this rebuke was before the New Covenant, His intention was clear. These traditions provided no relationship with God and observing them resulted in a spiritual malaise (cf. Isaiah 29:9-14). Following these traditions was not a sign of people-hood, but symbolic of the weak spiritual condition of the people! Yet, these traditions that Jesus spoke against have become the basis by which those in the Messianic Jewish Movement identify themselves as Jewish! Peter, the Apostle to the Jews (Gal 2:7-8), understood the difference between being Jewish and following the Judaism of the Rabbis (1 Peter 1:18). Paul, the most rabbinic among the Apostles (Galatians 1:14), concluded that his observance of Judaism was more than worthless (Philippians 3:3-14) and as a Hebrew Christian maintained his identity apart from adherence to the Law (Galatians 2:16-21) and rabbinic dictates he once championed (Colossians 2:8).

In response, the Messianic Movement will point to Acts 21:20ff to validate their position. However, that was a time of militant Jewish nationalism and hostility against those who were perceived as “gentilizing” or “Romanizing” their own people; as was the charge against Paul (Acts 21:21). The guilty were subject to assassination or crowd justice (Acts 21:27-32). Many in the Church at Jerusalem were perhaps caught up in this wave of religious nationalism, expecting war and establishment of the Kingdom. This situation is not applicable today. Furthermore, while nothing prohibits the observance of ethnic traditions not conflicting with New Covenant teachings, by identifying with Rabbinic Judaism the movement enslaves themselves, creates an artificial separation, and weakens the Body of Christ.

Within the Messianic Movement there are those who, while agreeing that they are part of the Body, deny that they are part of the Church and thus weaken the Body. Others maintain that they are the Jewish portion of the Universal Church but deny their responsibility in maintaining unity of the Body within the local church. It has been stated by leaders of a messianic congregation that there will be unity in the Body only when all Christians become members of a messianic synagogue or when the Lord returns to set up His Kingdom.

What is Biblical?

Biblically, there is no Jewish church, nor is there a Gentile church, although some local congregations are made up of only Gentile believers. The local church should be comprised of all peoples, irrespective of their culture, race, and background. This includes Jew and Gentile as part of the same local congregation. No matter what conflicts existed before salvation, in Messiah, we are one. It is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to break down the barriers and heal any breaches the weakness of sinful men may have produced. When men establish local congregations based on certain cultural or ethnic differences are they not hindering the work of the Holy Spirit? Are they not hindering the potential testimony of redeemed people exhibiting the love, peace, and reconciliation a sinful world so desperately needs and seeks? Are they not building up the middle wall that God has torn down in Messiah (Ephesians 2:14)?

The Jewish Mission agency American Board of Missions to the Jews, today known as Chosen People Ministries, put it well in their January, 1976 edition of “The Chosen People” (a publication of the American Board of Missions to the Jews at that time) on page 14: “We must realize that the Gospel transcends all cultures. To form a Messianic Synagogue on the basis of cultural background is no more valid than a group of Muslims organizing an Arabian-Mohammedan-Christian Mosque.”

Jewish missions should strive to build up local churches through bringing new Jewish believers into their congregations. Jewish missions can help a new Jewish believer feel at home in a local church by instructing the local church in the sensitivities of Jewish people, and through assisting, when possible, in the discipleship of Jewish people who have come to the Lord.

The local church can help by supporting Jewish Missions and Missionaries and learning how to effectively share their faith with Jewish people. They can be an integral part in the discipleship of new Jewish believers when they come to their Messiah.

Together we can build the Body of Messiah, encourage one another in the Great Commission, and glorify our Lord before a world looking for true manifestations of acceptance and love.
************************************************
[1] The stranger, even those who converted to Judaism, were never included as part of Israel and never allowed full equality with an Israelite. Strangers included the “mixed multitude” from Egypt (Exodus 12:38); the Canaanites still remaining in Palestine and their descendants, as Uriah the Hittite and Araunah the Jebusite, Doeg the Edomite, Ittai the Gittite; captives in war, fugitives, and merchants, amounting under Solomon to 153,600 males (2 Chronicles 2:17), one tenth of the population; Fausset Bible Dictionary “Stranger” c.f. ISBE.

JEWISH MISSIONS AND MESSIANIC JUDAISM | Israel News | Bible Prophecies | Proclaiming Messiah | Jewish Awareness Ministries
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#2
:confused: Why are you promoting other religions on Christian Chat?

http://christianchat.com/rules.php

1. Nothing anti-Christian, or inappropriate for a Christian chat room or forum.

Also, please don't post any inappropriate links in your chat profile or in the forums, or in the chat rooms (e.g., links to anti-Christian sites, sites with inappropriate content, sites promoting other religions, cults, or doctrines contrary to the Bible).

From Jewish Awareness Ministries, the site that you posted -> Shofar Shop | Israel News | Bible Prophecies | Proclaiming Messiah | Jewish Awareness Ministries


shofar.jpg
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#3
I'm not promoting "other" religions on this forum. The context of the article is Jewish Missions/evangelism....which is sharing Christ with the lost Jewish people. Do you not believe that the Jewish people need salvation? I'm not promoting Messianic Judaism either. If you would read the entire article, you would understand that this Jewish ministry is NOT Messianic.

You have started 3 or 4 threads dealing with the Hebrew Roots cult and you are getting "bent out of shape" because I started ONE thread on Jewish Missions? Wow! Please tell me....do you have a "hang up" about lost Jewish people? What about Hebrew Christians who are members of Body of Christ/the Church and are attending evangelical and fundamental churches?

Why post all those images from the Jewish Awareness Ministries website? Are you totally against Jewish Missions or do you just not like me because I am a Hebrew Christian who is a member of the Body of Christ/the Church and attends a fundamental Baptist church on Sundays?

Jewish Awareness Ministries is not an anti-Christian site. You have not proved a thing by what you posted. You are bearing false witness.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#4
Jewish Awareness Ministries is not an anti-Christian site. You have not proved a thing by what you posted. You are bearing false witness.
You're the first write anything about "anti-Christian"--I don't how you read that into anything.

:confused: Why are you promoting other religions on Christian Chat?
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#5
You're the first write anything about "anti-Christian"--I don't how you read that into anything.
This is what YOU posted from the "rules"...that "anti-Christian" was included in those rules makes me very suspect of your intent to falsely accuse me...which you have done. It was YOU who is bearing false witness against me...saying that I was "promoting other religions", which is absolutely false. Did you even bother to read the article I posted?
Praus said:
http://christianchat.com/rules.php

1. Nothing anti-Christian, or inappropriate for a Christian chat room or forum.

Also, please don't post any inappropriate links in your chat profile or in the forums, or in the chat rooms (e.g., links to anti-Christian sites, sites with inappropriate content, sites promoting other religions, cults, or doctrines contrary to the Bible).
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#6
This is what YOU posted from the "rules"...that "anti-Christian" was included in those rules makes me very suspect of your intent to falsely accuse me...which you have done. It was YOU who is bearing false witness against me...saying that I was "promoting other religions", which is absolutely false. Did you even bother to read the article I posted?
You're very suspect about the language CC rules? I'm sorry, I have no idea what to think anymore.

shofar2.jpg

Thanks for the site, I'm busy on my next thread right now, but now I have some interesting Zionist material to make even more threads.
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#7
You're very suspect about the language CC rules? I'm sorry, I have no idea what to think anymore.
No, I am very suspect of YOU and your un-Christlike motives. I'm not promoting any other religions. Neither am I promoting Messianic Judaism.
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#9
You'll have to be more specific.
That is about as "specific" as I am going to get with you. Honestly, I really don't trust you...I believe you are up to no good.
You must be on some type of "witch hunt"....you have already falsely accused me. Are you planning on "digging up some dirt" and falsely accusing another member of Christ's body?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#10
I have had the very same experience with this person. In the long run, if you ignore him, he is harmless although there will be times you will be moved to help those who may be misled by this attitude and lack of mutual respect.

That is about as "specific" as I am going to get with you. Honestly, I really don't trust you...I believe you are up to no good.

You must be on some type of "witch hunt"....you have already falsely accused me. Are you planning on "digging up some dirt" and falsely accusing another member of Christ's body?
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#11
That is about as "specific" as I am going to get with you. Honestly, I really don't trust you...I believe you are up to no good.
If you actually read the Bible...

Psalm 118:8 [It is] better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

You must be on some type of "witch hunt"....you have already falsely accused me. Are you planning on "digging up some dirt" and falsely accusing another member of Christ's body?
Let's look at the site you insist isn't anti-Christian...

...versus the words of Jesus Christ...

Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. (NASB)
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
0
#12
JEWISH MISSIONS AND MESSIANIC JUDAISM..

Posted in Israel's Messenger on February 8, 2010

by Moshe Gold and Mark Robinson

There are those who believe that the Messianic Movement is the natural alternative to Christianity for saved Jewish people; one whose members effectively reach other Jewish people with the Gospel. Most who hold this view also believe that the Messianic Synagogue is a Jewish church; a nurturing environment where Messianic Jews express unique New Covenant worship while remaining true to their Jewish identity.

However noble in theory, the Messianic Movement, established in the late 20th century as a response to anti-Jewish sentiment and lack of Jewish Roots teaching in the local church, was founded on sand rather than the Rock. Although this form of Messianic Worship can be attractive to some, many of the customs observed are offensive to Jewish people and opposed to the New Covenant. While empathizing with the desire of many Hebrew Christians to maintain their Jewish identity, we, on biblical grounds, cannot help legitimize this movement. It weakens the Church and is an obstruction to discipleship in sound doctrine. As Jews we should seek an identity that allows us to maintain our ethnic distinctiveness, while at the same time express our New Covenant faith in God through Messiah Jesus in a manner consistent with New Testament teachings.

Jews? Christians? Or Both?

Within Messianic Judaism are those who accept one’s personal revelation or vision of Jesus as proof of salvation in place of repentance and turning to God through Messiah Jesus! Generally, members are insulted to be called Christians, not accepting the term as relevant and even denying that they are part of Christianity (c.f. Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). They call themselves Messianic Jews while defining Christians as non-Jews and Christianity as non-Jewish worship of Jesus. Although non-Jews are often the majority attending these worship centers, they are typically not accepted as equals, but more like “strangers[1]” under the Mosaic Law (cf Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:19). These are broad statements but sadly encompass more than the periphery of the movement.

After reading this, some may say of Jewish Christians, “They have sold out. They are no longer Jews.” We are sons of Israel, who have an intimate, righteous relationship with the God of our Fathers through repentance and the redemption made possible by the willing self-sacrifice of the Messiah; Who being God in human form, offered Himself in our place for our sin. Having partaken of that sacrifice, we have entered into the New Covenant with Gentile people of like faith. We are part of the Church. We are born-again Christians (Hebrew = Meshichi) and our obedience is to God through the New Covenant. We are not bound by the Mosaic Law or Rabbinic Judaism. Yet, we are very much Jewish and understand the difficultly for many Hebrew Christians who want to maintain a Jewish identity apart from Judaism. It can also be confusing for Gentile Christians to separate between the two. Any confusion among Gentile Christians and inner struggle among Hebrew Christians exists because the line between Jewish identity and Rabbinic Judaism has become blurred.

Jewish Identity and Rabbinic Judaism

The blurring of these two accelerated with the return from Babylon. In an effort to keep the Law relevant in a changing world, the Rabbis rendered rulings regulating acceptable Jewish lifestyle. From the Mosaic Law they developed the Mishneh; the tradition of the elders (Matthew 15:2-3). With the religious and social collapse resulting from two failed revolts against Rome, the Mishneh became the basis for the Talmud, the code of religious and social life that is the backbone of Judaism and shaped the cultural identity of the Jewish people. Thus, Jewish identity became directly linked to the practice of Judaism as defined by the Rabbis; hence the term Rabbinic Judaism.

Using Rabbinic Judaism as their basis of Jewish identity, many messianic synagogues are advertised as a place where one can experience true Jewish worship. By choosing to organize their lives and worship according to the rabbinic model, they believe they are faithfully maintaining their cultural distinction as Jews. This is why part of the Messianic Movement considers itself as a sect of Judaism, rather than part of the Church. As faithful Jews, we must remember that our first obligation is to the God of our Fathers and not to the rabbinic fathers! Rather than identifying with religious values established by those who rejected the Messiah, rejected the New Covenant and whose motive was to reinforce observance of the Mosaic Law, let us start with the New Covenant in order to find how to carry our Jewish identity forward into our new life in Messiah.

Jewish Identity and the New Covenant

The New Testament proclaims that the New Covenant is irreconcilable with the Mosaic Law. Although vital in maintaining a national identity, the Mosaic Law’s purpose for individuals was to reveal sin and the impossibility of satisfying the demands of God (Galatians 3:23-25). It was a reminder of bondage (Galatians 4:21-5:1) that ended when the Messiah initiated the New Covenant (Hebrews 10:9-10). In fact, the follower of Jesus is to separate themselves from it (Hebrews 13:10-14) and its traditions, recognizing them to be harmful to the new life (Colossians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:18). The New Covenant replaces the Mosaic Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:13) and offers freedom from the bondage (Galatians 4:1-7) and cycle of sin (Hebrews 12:18-24), as well as the restraints of religion (Hebrews 7:11-19). If one seeks to maintain their Jewish identity let them follow the example of Yeshua and the Apostles who separated their Jewish identity from the Law and Rabbinic Judaism.

Consider Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. He was born, lived and died as a Jew. Even after His resurrection and ascension, He is still recognized as Jewish (Revelation 5:5). Although He perfectly satisfied the Law, His Jewish identity was not dependant on Rabbinic Judaism, which He denounced (Matthew 15:1-11)! Although this rebuke was before the New Covenant, His intention was clear. These traditions provided no relationship with God and observing them resulted in a spiritual malaise (cf. Isaiah 29:9-14). Following these traditions was not a sign of people-hood, but symbolic of the weak spiritual condition of the people! Yet, these traditions that Jesus spoke against have become the basis by which those in the Messianic Jewish Movement identify themselves as Jewish! Peter, the Apostle to the Jews (Gal 2:7-8), understood the difference between being Jewish and following the Judaism of the Rabbis (1 Peter 1:18). Paul, the most rabbinic among the Apostles (Galatians 1:14), concluded that his observance of Judaism was more than worthless (Philippians 3:3-14) and as a Hebrew Christian maintained his identity apart from adherence to the Law (Galatians 2:16-21) and rabbinic dictates he once championed (Colossians 2:8).

In response, the Messianic Movement will point to Acts 21:20ff to validate their position. However, that was a time of militant Jewish nationalism and hostility against those who were perceived as “gentilizing” or “Romanizing” their own people; as was the charge against Paul (Acts 21:21). The guilty were subject to assassination or crowd justice (Acts 21:27-32). Many in the Church at Jerusalem were perhaps caught up in this wave of religious nationalism, expecting war and establishment of the Kingdom. This situation is not applicable today. Furthermore, while nothing prohibits the observance of ethnic traditions not conflicting with New Covenant teachings, by identifying with Rabbinic Judaism the movement enslaves themselves, creates an artificial separation, and weakens the Body of Christ.

Within the Messianic Movement there are those who, while agreeing that they are part of the Body, deny that they are part of the Church and thus weaken the Body. Others maintain that they are the Jewish portion of the Universal Church but deny their responsibility in maintaining unity of the Body within the local church. It has been stated by leaders of a messianic congregation that there will be unity in the Body only when all Christians become members of a messianic synagogue or when the Lord returns to set up His Kingdom.

What is Biblical?

Biblically, there is no Jewish church, nor is there a Gentile church, although some local congregations are made up of only Gentile believers. The local church should be comprised of all peoples, irrespective of their culture, race, and background. This includes Jew and Gentile as part of the same local congregation. No matter what conflicts existed before salvation, in Messiah, we are one. It is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to break down the barriers and heal any breaches the weakness of sinful men may have produced. When men establish local congregations based on certain cultural or ethnic differences are they not hindering the work of the Holy Spirit? Are they not hindering the potential testimony of redeemed people exhibiting the love, peace, and reconciliation a sinful world so desperately needs and seeks? Are they not building up the middle wall that God has torn down in Messiah (Ephesians 2:14)?

The Jewish Mission agency American Board of Missions to the Jews, today known as Chosen People Ministries, put it well in their January, 1976 edition of “The Chosen People” (a publication of the American Board of Missions to the Jews at that time) on page 14: “We must realize that the Gospel transcends all cultures. To form a Messianic Synagogue on the basis of cultural background is no more valid than a group of Muslims organizing an Arabian-Mohammedan-Christian Mosque.”

Jewish missions should strive to build up local churches through bringing new Jewish believers into their congregations. Jewish missions can help a new Jewish believer feel at home in a local church by instructing the local church in the sensitivities of Jewish people, and through assisting, when possible, in the discipleship of Jewish people who have come to the Lord.

The local church can help by supporting Jewish Missions and Missionaries and learning how to effectively share their faith with Jewish people. They can be an integral part in the discipleship of new Jewish believers when they come to their Messiah.

Together we can build the Body of Messiah, encourage one another in the Great Commission, and glorify our Lord before a world looking for true manifestations of acceptance and love.
************************************************
[1] The stranger, even those who converted to Judaism, were never included as part of Israel and never allowed full equality with an Israelite. Strangers included the “mixed multitude” from Egypt (Exodus 12:38); the Canaanites still remaining in Palestine and their descendants, as Uriah the Hittite and Araunah the Jebusite, Doeg the Edomite, Ittai the Gittite; captives in war, fugitives, and merchants, amounting under Solomon to 153,600 males (2 Chronicles 2:17), one tenth of the population; Fausset Bible Dictionary “Stranger” c.f. ISBE.

JEWISH MISSIONS AND MESSIANIC JUDAISM | Israel News | Bible Prophecies | Proclaiming Messiah | Jewish Awareness Ministries


I might add a few personal observations from my own experiences to this. I remember another Messianic Jew, who had a beard, concluding that he didn't know if the Torah forbid cutting one's beard. In my opinion it doesn't forbid it. He had studied it before as well as I have. But he chose to grow his beard out. I choose to cut mine off.

There are some traditions of Men - such as lighting the menorah on Hannukah (perhaps coming from those unbelieving Jews who have accepted the Messiah but still feel comfortable in such traditions) - practiced among Messianic Jews. And there are new traditions that are not universal among the synagogues. I think some of them enjoy their Jewish identity while others only adhere to those regulations set forth by God because their convictions lead them to do so.

When I attended a Messianic Jewish synagogue I saw children, with tzitziot (fringes/tassles), running barefoot into the worship room. While delivering the message there was no mention of works-based salvation. They talked about the Messiah's sacrifice. They blew shofars according to God's regulation of the Feast of Trumpets. A couple small children had these shofars and they could sure belt it out and eagerly took advantage of every opportunity to do so. haha There were a couple of heavier ladies - one black and one white - sitting together behind me in the pews. Every once in a while they'd belt out a "hallelujah!" The sermon was largely on the Feast of Trumpets and what it signifies in New Testament prophecy. When the service was over people retired around a table of food to eat and chat.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#13
Praus is actually getting somewhere, this entire article is from a non Christian organization. I was reading into the website, they believe the new covenant is something in the future, or something that started when the state of Israel first began in 1948.

For those who think they are messianic Jewish, do you not know that they don't claim the title Christian, they consider themselves another sect of Judaism that believes in the new testament. So far, it seems kinda off, or its already off the cliff completely.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
0
#14
Praus is actually getting somewhere, this entire article is from a non Christian organization. I was reading into the website, they believe the new covenant is something in the future, or something that started when the state of Israel first began in 1948.

For those who think they are messianic Jewish, do you not know that they don't claim the title Christian, they consider themselves another sect of Judaism that believes in the new testament. So far, it seems kinda off, or its already off the cliff completely.
I really have no clue what they believe other than they seem to disagree with both Protestantism and Messianic Judaism to certain degrees. Just reading the post reminded me of the Gentile ministry to unbelieving Jews that, according to some, started the Messianic movement when it really didn't even believe in it, itself.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#15
I have had the very same experience with this person. In the long run, if you ignore him, he is harmless although there will be times you will be moved to help those who may be misled by this attitude and lack of mutual respect.
So Jaume do you believe that the New Covenant is something yet to take place in the future?
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#16
Praus is actually getting somewhere, this entire article is from a non Christian organization. I was reading into the website, they believe the new covenant is something in the future, or something that started when the state of Israel first began in 1948.
Just because you say that Jewish Awareness Ministries is a non Christian organization, doesn't make what you say the truth. Here is a statement from their "What We Believe" link:

What We Believe..
PURPOSE OF JEWISH AWARENESS MINISTRIES:

Proclaim the Messiah: In following the biblical mandate of “to the Jew first” our personnel have an evangelistic outreach ministry to the Jewish people of their community and, at times, beyond. Our conviction of the local churches’ biblical responsibility to share the Gospel with their Jewish friends motivates our ministry to train, equip, and encourage local churches to have an evangelistic outreach to the Jewish community in their area. Matt. 28:18-20; Rom. 1:16; 11:11, 28-31.

Preach the Word: Our conviction that the Bible is the inspired word of God and the instrument the Holy Spirit uses to teach and convince believers and unbelievers underlines our commitment to sound biblical preaching and teaching so that individuals and local churches may be challenged to adopt the biblical understanding concerning Israel, Jewish Evangelism and Jewish Missions.

Pray for Israel: Psalm 122:6 commands us to “pray for the peace of Jerusalem.” Isaiah 62:6-7 requires believers to intercede for Israel with God until the Lord rules in Jerusalem. Jewish Awareness Ministries personnel regularly pray for the salvation of Jewish people and for Israel to know peace. We encourage individual Christians and local churches to join us in this holy responsibility.

What We Believe | Israel News | Bible Prophecies | Proclaiming Messiah | Jewish Awareness Ministries
DOCTRINAL STATEMENT

1. We believe in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as verbally inspired of God inerrant in the original writings and of supreme and final authority in faith and life.

2 Tim. 3:16,17

2. We believe in one God, eternally existing in Three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, equal in every divine perfection and executing distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption.

3. We believe that God the Son became incarnate in the Person of Jesus Christ who was begotten by the Holy Ghost and born of the Virgin Mary, and that He is true God and true man.

Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38

4. We believe in the Genesis account of creation, that man was created in the image of God, that he sinned and thereby incurred not only physical death, but that spiritual death which is separation from God, and that all human beings are born with a sinful nature, become sinners in thought, word and deed.

Gen. 1:27; Rom. 5:12; Ezek. 18:4; Eph. 4:8; Rom. 3:12,23

5. We believe that Jesus Christ was absolutely without sin, that He died for our sins according to the Scriptures, as a representative and substitutionary Sacrifice, and that all who believe in and accept Him are justified on the ground of His shed blood, have their sins pardoned and receive the gift of eternal life.

2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Cor. 15:3; John 1:29; Rom. 5:9, 6:23; Col. 1:14; 1 John 5:12

6. We believe in the resurrection of the crucified body of our Lord, in His ascension into Heaven, and in His present life there for us, as High Priest and Advocate.

Rom. 1:14; Luke 24:39; Acts 1:9; Heb. 7:25, 4:14; 1 John 2:1

7. We believe in “that blessed hope,” the imminent pre-tribulation rapture of the church, and the personal, visible, bodily, premillenial return of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ with the church.

Acts 1:11; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; Luke 12:40

8. We believe that all who receive by faith the Lord Jesus are born again of the Holy Spirit and thereby become children of God.

John 1:12, 3:3-7; Rom. 8:16

9. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, the everlasting blessedness of the saved and the everlasting conscious punishment of the lost.

Dan. 12:2,3; John 5:24,29; Rev. 20:4,5, 10:15; 1 John 5:12; 2 Cor. 5:1

10. We believe in the ordinances which Christ has commanded us to observe: believers’ baptism by immersion and the Lord’s supper.

Matt. 28:19,20; Acts 8:36-38, 10:47,48; Rom. 6:3-8; 1 Cor. 11:23-26

11. We believe in the church, a living spiritual body of which Christ is the Head and all regenerated people are members.

1 Cor. 12:27; Eph. 1:22,23; 2:19-22

12. We believe that the business of the Church is to preach the Gospel, to build up its members in the faith, to make disciples, to teach and instruct as Christ commanded, and to evangelize the world.

Matt. 28:19.20; 2 Tim. 4:2; Col. 2:6,7

13. We believe, as concerning the flesh, that the Lord Jesus Christ came of Israel, and He is over all God blessed forever.

Rom. 9:5

14. We believe that it is required of every Christian to live a life separated from the world.

Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 6:14-17; 1 John 2:15-17

15. All trustees, committees, and staff members of Jewish Awareness Ministries, Inc. must be affiliated with churches or organizations which are separated from the World Council of Churches, their member organizations and from neo-evangelicalism. Membership in a church or organization within the World Council of Churches or neo-evangelicalism automatically disqualifies any nominee from consideration of these positions. (Voted and passed at the Annual Meeting, October 16, 1998).

2 Cor. 6:14-17

16. Policy re Charismatics: We do not approve of, embrace, nor condone the modern-day Charismatic Movement, with its emphasis on tongues and healing. It is understood that any worker, Board member or committee member who becomes involved with it must resign his position or be removed from office.

2 Cor. 6:14-17

17. We believe in the Biblical Holiness and spiritualness of family and church and members thereof. We also believe that marriage is a union between a man and a woman, and that any other sexual activity such as adultery, homosexuality, incest, etc., is considered sin, and any one engaging in the same is disqualified from service or employment with this mission.

Genesis 2:24; Exodus 20:14; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 6:9-11

What We Believe | Israel News | Bible Prophecies | Proclaiming Messiah | Jewish Awareness Ministries
This is not a doctrinal statement from a non Christian organization. It is the doctrinal statement from a Bible believing/preaching, Christ centered ministry, which is sound in Biblical doctrine. If any born again Christian has a problem with such a doctrinal statement as this one, then they best "examine themselves and make sure that they are 'in the faith once for all delivered to the saints' (Jude 3 and 2 Cor. 13:5)

It appears that you are "cherry picking" bits and pieces of information from a sound biblical website (with whom you don't agree) and putting together your "findings and concocting false teachings which don't exist. Your plan (not God's) is to accuse a perfectly sound biblical ministry of being heretical just because you don't agree with them. That is sick.

For those who think they are messianic Jewish, do you not know that they don't claim the title Christian, they consider themselves another sect of Judaism that believes in the new testament. So far, it seems kinda off, or its already off the cliff completely.
You speak from ignorance. I am an ethnic Jew and was a member of a Messianic congregation and I know exactly what Messianic Jews believe. Been there, done that. So please don't tell me about what Messianic Jews believe...I already know....and it's quite obvious that you are clueless.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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Your plan (not God's) is to accuse a perfectly sound biblical ministry of being heretical just because you don't agree with them. That is sick.

....and it's quite obvious that you are clueless.
This thread is quite edifying so far.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion [is] vain.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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This is not a doctrinal statement from a non Christian organization.
If they believe the new covenant was not put into force when Christ was crucified, then they are non-Christian, regardless of all the right sounding creeds in their statement of beliefs. You can go to the Jehovah's Witnesses statement of beliefs and probably find a lot of right sounding beliefs, as well.
 
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Linda70

Guest
#19
If they believe the new covenant was not put into force when Christ was crucified, then they are non-Christian, regardless of all the right sounding creeds in their statement of beliefs. You can go to the Jehovah's Witnesses statement of beliefs and probably find a lot of right sounding beliefs, as well.
Please read this article "The New Covenant" and you tell me what you believe they teach.

THE NEW COVENANT | Israel News | Bible Prophecies | Proclaiming Messiah | Jewish Awareness Ministries
 
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Bryancampbell

Guest
#20
The New Covenant is a future covenant which will come to fruition after Israel’s return to the land from their worldwide dispersion which began in 1948 (Deuteronomy 30:4-6;Jeremiah 30:3-10; Ezekiel 36:24-28; 37-39). It will be an especially sought after promise growing out of the worst suffering, persecution and tribulation ever to be experienced by the Jewish people. Scripture refers to this horrific seven year period as “Daniel’s 70th week” (Daniel 9:24, 27) and “Jacob’s time of trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7-10). Jesus spoke of it as “the tribulation” and clearly taught that it would immediately precede His coming to deliver Israel from their enemies and establish this long desired kingdom age (Matthew 24:3, 21, 37; Romans 11:26-27).
That's only part of that doctrine on "The New Covenant".

You speak from ignorance. I am an ethnic Jew and was a member of a Messianic congregation and I know exactly what Messianic Jews believe. Been there, done that. So please don't tell me about what Messianic Jews believe...I already know....and it's quite obvious that you are clueless.
Messianic believers generally consider the written Torah, the five books of Moses, to remain in force as a continuing covenant, revised by Jesus and the Apostles in the New Testament, that is to be observed both morally and ritually. Jesus did not annul the Torah, but its interpretation is revised through the Apostolic scriptures.
That's pretty much mixing both Judaism and Christianity, forming its own religion. Jews don't accept it, and neither do Christians. So what covenant are we in then if you believe the old is continuous? Jesus spoke about those who would mix Judaism with the New covenant of God.

Matthew 9:17 NASB; said:
Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved.

You cannot mix both Judaism with the Christian faith, or else, as Jesus put it, "burst". What do you think this statement was directed to or meant by? The entire book of Hebrew makes it clear how dangerous it is to be driven back to the Old Covenant, which the messianic Jews believe still is in effect.

Hebrews 6:4-6 NASB; said:
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
What in the world do you think this means? This not only is important to heed, but a warning to those stepping into it.