Why does the Law cause contention among professing Christians?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He prefers mercy. His Word says so. Yet NOWHERE does His Word say we are to ignore the law.

This is another example of false characterization through ambiguity. 'Ignore the law' is not defined, which creates the impression in the mind that those who do 'ignore the law' are lawless.

The fact is ignoring the law can mean two things. It can mean a disregard for law itself, or it can mean that we in Christ can safely ignore the external letter because we have the spirit residing within. Such is not ignoring the law in the sense of disregarding law, because the spirit is the very nature of GOD expressing itself through obedient persons, which was the whole intent and goal of the law.

But one side of the debate doesn't see this, feels threatened by the many scriptures that witness of this truth, and falsely characterize those who uphold and witness of it. And the fire rages on...

 

[homwardbound]

So I asked God: "Why do you keep reminding me of your law that you fulfilled?" He gently answered: "Because I want you to see what you are denying about yourself. Use the law as a mirror."

James 1:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

So maybe, it is a great reminder of one's need for God 24/7 and if one makes void the Law, not upholds it as perfect, knowing they can't personally fulfill it being in unredeemed flesh, might take it for granted and sin knowing or unknowingly taking this amazing Mercy of God through Christ for granted, using grace for an excuse to sin, when
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

It seems to me by and through the grace provided by God we are to be able, (not of self, of belief) to stop sinning, even though we do have Jesus as our advocate as being forgiven. It is and was meant for the utmost thankfulness, that being so busy in praises and worship one does not have time for sin nor really ever thinks about it any longer and thus sin is no longer in the way.

 

[zone]

Hello Haz,

Im not christian so having to sell everything I own or watch my family torn apart because I believe in a human sacrifice is not a concern for me.

You see I have a God thank you very much. My God loves me more than it is possible for any other entity to love me. Every breath that I take is a kiss from my God. Every one of my heartbeats is a personal caress from Him. You see; it was He who designed my body and soul and it is He who sustains them every second. It was my God who brought every iota of existence into being. He loved me before I existed. And it is only His love that allows existence to continue to exist. My God is a forgiving God. When I fall short, and that happens all the time, all I need to do is to open my heart to the One who created my heart. I know that He loves me and hears my prayer; I know that He listens even before I talk and I know that he forgives my sins.

I can’t ask for a better God, a more loving God or for a closer God. All goodness, all kindness, all holiness, all truth and all love reside in Him and in Him alone. There is nothing that I lack with my God.

I already have a Messiah too. His name is David. God anointed him through the prophet Samuel so that makes him a “Messiah”; an anointed one. I couldn’t ask for a better king. He laid out his entire heart for me in the book of Psalms. In these songs he shows me how a subject of God ought to live. In David’s life and in the words of his song he leads me in submission to my God. My king takes the simple truth of life and shows me how it is the deepest song of my heart. The straightforward fact that God is the Master of all becomes an incredible journey on the strings of my king’s harp. And it is on this journey that I want to live my life and it is on this journey that I want to spend eternity.

All of the righteous descendants of David passed on his torch. God promised that it is the dynasty of David which will retain the position of the leader of men. And it is to this dynasty that I pledged my heart. David lived his life in awe and appreciation of God’s sovereignty and he taught us to do the same. His descendant that will rightfully occupy his throne will further that cause and bring it to all of the nations. The man who directed all attention to himself and used the “glory of the Father” as an empty catch-phrase is the very antithesis of David and his dynasty.

When the long awaited for descendant of David appears he will not need a new pledge of loyalty from my community because we have already pledged our allegiance to the crown of David. And as David before him, he will not try to stand between me and my God. Instead he will stand where my King stands today; that is, right beside me facing God.

I have a Law from my God. It is a perfect and just law (Psalm 19; 119). It teaches me right from wrong and it is the light of my life.

Now you want me to place a Greek book right there alongside the teaching of my God. I cannot do this.

The book that you hold runs contrary to the word of God in so many different ways. Your book completely ignores the national relationship that my nation shares with God. Your book shows a disdain for the laws of my God and utter contempt for His first born. Your book contains some teachings that are simply not right according to the sense of justice that God planted in all of our hearts.

In the book of John Jesus teaches that those who reject him do so out of their hatred for light while those who accept him are lovers of light (John 3:19-21). In the same book Jesus goes on to say that those who don’t believe him are “of the devil” while those who are “of God” hear his words (John 8:44-47). The obvious implication is that acceptance of Jesus is some sort of litmus test to see whether one loves the light and is of God or if one hates the light and is of the devil.

Let us step back for a minute. Is it morally correct to accept the claims for the divinity of a man before he has proven himself? Even Christian theology which allows for a man to be divine would still not have us simply accepting anyone’s claims for divinity. Christianity acknowledges that if Jesus’ claims conflicted with the Jewish Scriptures then the Jewish people were duty-bound to reject him. The morally correct approach to Jesus’ claims, even according to Christian theology, ought to be an approach of caution and skepticism.

But John’s Jesus completely ignores this truth. He ignores the fact that his audience was obligated by the word of God that they had already received to greet his claims with skepticism (if not outright rejection). Instead he applies a manipulative tactic. “If you don’t believe in me then you must be a rotten apple from the beginning.” Who benefits from this teaching? The ones who don’t believe in him don’t care for his evaluation of their spiritual ancestry. Those who do believe in him don’t need this teaching. It is to those who are on the fence that this teaching is directed. This is an effort to get them to make a decision on the basis of not wanting to be seen as “wicked” by Jesus or by those who believe in his words.

Is this a reason to believe in Jesus? Even according to Christian theology is it right for a person to accept Jesus so as to “prove” that he was a “child of light” all along? In any case the historical ramification of this teaching was that the followers of Jesus redefined their view of humanity in a very negative way. For many dark centuries the believers of John’s Jesus defined the goodness of man, not by the practice of justice or mercy, but by belief in Jesus or lack thereof and their pogroms.

that all sounds wonderful.

but you do not have a God who forgives you or is kissing and caressing you as you deny His Only Son....

you do not have forgiveness on any basis whatsoever but the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

we are all condemned already.
your only hope is The Messiah the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob promised.

not David.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

 

[zone]

Paul seems to be quoted a great deal here.

because it's a Christian forum.

Shaul was blessed by grace and mercy to be called out of the false religion of Judaism.

you would do well to pay attention to his writings.

 

[zone]

Is this a reason to believe in Jesus? Even according to Christian theology is it right for a person to accept Jesus so as to “prove” that he was a “child of light” all along? In any case the historical ramification of this teaching was that the followers of Jesus redefined their view of humanity in a very negative way. For many dark centuries the believers of John’s Jesus defined the goodness of man, not by the practice of justice or mercy, but by belief in Jesus or lack thereof and their pogroms.

nonsense.
but we can talk about how Dark the Dark Ages actually were.
and what emerged from them.
and what the ramifications of that were and are.

Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

...

God is not honoring any Covenant but the Covenant in Christ's blood.

[video=youtube;yzqTFNfeDnE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE[/video]


Matthew 22
Whose Son Is the Christ?
41Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet’?

45If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

 

[letti]

The laws often times portrays those that do not want to follow these dead practices as doomed.Jesus Christ died to set us free from something that never was able to work,or it would still be in effect today.The Lord knew mankind needed renewal and we get that from Jesus,who took the penalty of our sins.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The laws often times portrays those that do not want to follow these dead practices as doomed.Jesus Christ died to set us free from something that never was able to work,or it would still be in effect today.The Lord knew mankind needed renewal and we get that from Jesus,who took the penalty of our sins.

Is the law opposed to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, certainly righteousness would have been from the law. Galatians 3:21​

 

[zone]

The man who directed all attention to himself and used the “glory of the Father” as an empty catch-phrase is the very antithesis of David and his dynasty.

Isaiah 53:5
He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

Psalm 22
16 For dogs encompass me;
a company of evildoers encircles me;
they have pierced my hands and feet—
17 I can count all my bones—
they stare and gloat over me;
18 they divide my garments among them,
and for my clothing they cast lots.

...

we could take a look at how modern Judaism has lied about what the Hebrew scriptures say here:

they have pierced my hands and feet

or not. up to you.

 

[just-me]

The laws often times portrays those that do not want to follow these dead practices as doomed.Jesus Christ died to set us free from something that never was able to work,or it would still be in effect today.The Lord knew mankind needed renewal and we get that from Jesus,who took the penalty of our sins.

Whose fault was it that it didn't work, God's or ours? That is what needs to be defined. I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything, and you don't have to answer the question. It is rhetorical. I think it's important to define this knowing that God doesn't make mistakes, so there is only one other cause for the failure of the Covenant, and that is that the carnal nature of humans could not live up to the perfection defined in its contents.

On more thing to our new friend Selihah. I know that you hold King David in high regard, and so do I. He was very humble and the apple of God's eye, yet still made 2 bad decisions that I know of. Putting that aside. Have you ever compared Psalm 22 with with the crucifixion or Jesus. If not, I think it would be very interesting for us to walk through the comparisons, step by step.
With God's love, the best way I know how,
Bryan

 

[letti]

Not,God's fault ours all have fallen short.That is why all need Jesus.

 

[zone]

Is the law opposed to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, certainly righteousness would have been from the law. Galatians 3:21​

lol.....the lawyers cant deal with Galatians.

Galatians 3
10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

...

"HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

uh-oh.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

In the book of John Jesus teaches that those who reject him do so out of their hatred for light while those who accept him are lovers of light (John 3:19-21). In the same book Jesus goes on to say that those who don’t believe him are “of the devil” while those who are “of God” hear his words (John 8:44-47). The obvious implication is that acceptance of Jesus is some sort of litmus test to see whether one loves the light and is of God or if one hates the light and is of the devil.

Let us step back for a minute. Is it morally correct to accept the claims for the divinity of a man before he has proven himself? Even Christian theology which allows for a man to be divine would still not have us simply accepting anyone’s claims for divinity. Christianity acknowledges that if Jesus’ claims conflicted with the Jewish Scriptures then the Jewish people were duty-bound to reject him. The morally correct approach to Jesus’ claims, even according to Christian theology, ought to be an approach of caution and skepticism.

But John’s Jesus completely ignores this truth. He ignores the fact that his audience was obligated by the word of God that they had already received to greet his claims with skepticism (if not outright rejection). Instead he applies a manipulative tactic. “If you don’t believe in me then you must be a rotten apple from the beginning.” Who benefits from this teaching? The ones who don’t believe in him don’t care for his evaluation of their spiritual ancestry. Those who do believe in him don’t need this teaching. It is to those who are on the fence that this teaching is directed. This is an effort to get them to make a decision on the basis of not wanting to be seen as “wicked” by Jesus or by those who believe in his words.

Is this a reason to believe in Jesus?

God speaking to Moses: Exodus 3:12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.

So the proof Moses would have that God had sent him, would be that when he brought forth the people of Israel, they would serve God upon that mountain. The proof was to be provided after Moses had obeyed God, in faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

wheels on the bus go round and round! i keep seeing people say we live in sin, i even heard a person saying that we sin every day, it wasn't in forums that i heard that. People really need to stop trying to convince others, that we can't live sinless lives. we can live without sin, if we do what Jesus said. Jesus came to show us how we are to live, and He came in the flesh to show us it can be done. Did you sin today? yesturday? last week? well i believe if we can go one day without sinning then why can't we not sin every day? With Christ All things are possible.

so you are saying there is not one minute of every day where you mind goes to self? and does not think about others?

I know no human who has ever done this, Except one, you must be special!

 

[letti]

I'f I tried to follow the law I would fail,I know this,without Christ I would not have any redemption.The new covenant is a blessing, it set us free from the failure that was found in the law keeping covenant.Faith is the key.Galatians,19&20,For I through the law am dead to the law,that I might live unto God.I am crucified with Christ,nevertheless I live,yet not,I but Christ live in me,and the life which I now live in the flesh.I live by the faith of the Son of God,who loved me and gave himself for me.Galations-21,I do not frustrate the grace of God,for if righteouness come by the law,then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[PoxEclipse]

Who has a nose to smell?

A high pathetic question regarding the law...


If I come over to your house and track mud on your brand new white carpet, do you...


1. Kick me out of your home and issue a trespass warning, and then have my nostrils raked if I should ever return

2. Forgive me and tell me "next time, please wipe off your shoes before you enter, I'm trying to keep the carpet clean"

3. Tell me "go kill a lamb" because cleaning the carpet is going to be a big job


He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

because it's a Christian forum.

Shaul was blessed by grace and mercy to be called out of the false religion of Judaism.

you would do well to pay attention to his writings.

I disagree that Shaul was called out of the false religion of Judaism. He was called out of the false religion of Pharisee-ism.

Jesus taught the true religion of Judaism. Shaul was zealous as a Pharisee to persecute the "Jewish" believers in Christ.

 

[just-me]

I disagree that Shaul was called out of the false religion of Judaism. He was called out of the false religion of Pharisee-ism.

Jesus taught the true religion of Judaism. Shaul was zealous as a Pharisee to persecute the "Jewish" believers in Christ.

Right. Paul knew what he was doing after this conversion, and He was well equipped after he was blinded, so that he could see. We have a good man by the name of Selihah with us on this thread. We quote Paul time after time to prove how bad the Mosaic law is, but those that use Paul's writing to do that have so far not followed Paul's example to win this person's confidence, but rather have put his beliefs in the category of worthless. If you are going to endorse Paul's writings, consider it all, the best way you can just as we should consider all of God's Word, even the Law. Do this as Paul did.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree that Shaul was called out of the false religion of Judaism. He was called out of the false religion of Pharisee-ism.

Jesus taught the true religion of Judaism. Shaul was zealous as a Pharisee to persecute the "Jewish" believers in Christ.

Thats interesting.

The same law which Christ taught was the same law which had been around since adam, before any Judaism even existed.

Jesus did not teach judaism. He taught I guess what you could call GODism. The same law Noah, Adam, Abraham Isaac and Jacob, Job and all the other pre Jew anything came to existence.

 

[just-me]

I disagree that Shaul was called out of the false religion of Judaism. He was called out of the false religion of Pharisee-ism.

Jesus taught the true religion of Judaism. Shaul was zealous as a Pharisee to persecute the "Jewish" believers in Christ.

See post 357
I should have said; now to all that speak against the law "If you are going to endorse Paul's writings, consider it all, the best way you can just as we should consider all of God's Word, even the Law. Do this as Paul did."

This statement was not toward you.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Right. Paul knew what he was doing after this conversion, and He was well equipped after he was blinded, so that he could see. We have a good man by the name of Selihah with us on this thread. We quote Paul time after time to prove how bad the Mosaic law is, but those that use Paul's writing to do that have so far not followed Paul's example to win this person's confidence, but rather have put his beliefs in the category of worthless. If you are going to endorse Paul's writings, consider it all, the best way you can just as we should consider all of God's Word, even the Law. Do this as Paul did.

Wow... You really are a lost soul.