Problems with the Missouri Synod Lutheran Chrurch.

[1still_waters]

I had supposed you were challenging this thread/opposition with any true posting of evidence to this thread. Am I'm wrong?

No if anything concerning you specifically, I'm shocked you didn't label this thread as a form of "ear scratching", seeing it's just a thread talking about the wrongs of a movement denomination.

They watched him because they enjoyed how he preached about churches and slam them for their sins and even slammed his own denomination! He would judge, rant and rave about every sin under the sun. In short, they were being entertained.

That type of preaching is also ear tickling and ear scratching, because all it does is entertain the hearers.

I've noticed on Christian Chat the same thing happens. The funny thing is, those who say they hate ear scratching are eating it up. People get in the forums and slam anything they don't like, and when you look under their statements, the "likes" are everywhere. People who call themselves dedicated Christians are posting their "likes" on trash! Don't they realize they're fulfilling Scripture? I think the church really needs to take another look at this.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/66648-real-ear-scratchers.html#post1074441

People get in the forums and slam anything they don't like, and when you look under their statements, the "likes" are everywhere.

 

[Huckleberry]

Huckleberry:

what's with the drama?

"stand trial and be Judged by a jury of one as to whether or not he is worthy?"

ask anyone who isn't LCMS what happens if they CHAT with Pastor (who will give an account for souls in his care) before the service and he believes they confess the true Christ - not satan's brother who lives on KOLOB - see if they are happily invited to take communion.

anyways....i'm pretty happy with LCMS policy.

i wouldn't want to ignorantly take communion and end up sick or dead having sinned against the Lord's BLOOD & BODY.


read the warning again.

if somebody you didn't know showed up at your church and unannounced approached the pulpit to give a PROPHECY....what would you do, as a Pastor?

Did I give the impression that I was a Mormon? Unintended.

And so your "Pastor" is concerned that he will give an account
for any non-members who walk through the door of his church?
As if nobody could skate through his "interview" a liar?

Somebody who approaches the pulpit at my church unannounced
could find himself restrained on the floor until the police show up.
We take care of our Pastor.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

hey DA....long time no see.
prolly somebody from every denom (and the non-denom denoms) would say amen....thinking your post is about their position.
since this is on an LCMS thread, and so we understand each other - are Lutherans the wolves and false brothers you're referring to?

zone.

NO - not saying Lutherans are the wolves. Just saying there are many false teachers and one needs to realize that. In realizing that, one needs to discern their position (ignorance or arrogance) and rebuke or reject respectively. The posted verses basically support the position that there are false teachings and false teachers, and in the case of a discerned intent to deceive, or in cases of hypocrisy, one is just in rejecting and avoiding fellowship with such.

Glad to see you are still at it hon ...

 

[zone]

example #1: WHY

Even one who confesses the Real Presence [i just showed why we believe and say real presence...Jesus said THIS IS.....not this is symbolic of] cannot ordinarily, except in the case of death, be admitted if he is and wants to remain not a member of our orthodox church, but rather a Roman Catholic,

do you fellowship and share communion with Roman Catholics who have no intention of agreeing with your SoFs and beliefs?

here's why we don't.

example (which you can extrapolate to the groups who do not take Jesus exactly at His word on this matter, but appear to take it far more lightly, offering and sharing the Lord's Supper with anyone) - the ecumenism you appear to be against? or was that before you were for it?:

from the source you are reading from:

The Lutheran church rejects and condemns incorrect understandings of the Lord’s Supper,such as the view that the sacrifice of the Mass delivers man from his sins,or that the substance of the consecrated bread and wine is actually changed into the body and blood of Christ.We also reject and condemn the view that in the Lord’s Supper the true body and blood of Christ is not received by the mouth of the communicants, under the bread and wine,but is received only spiritually in the heart by faith,or that the bread and wine are only symbols of the far-distant body and blood of our Lord.

anyways....gotta go...keep reading. hopefully not cherry-picking selectively. but eh...i can dream.

and why not visit an LCMS sometime?
you might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[JaumeJ]

My response is to the OP, and later responses to the same. As for the person you mention, I have had her and most of her friends on ignore for some time now. And as for your comment on my being full of poo poo which is after all dung. You do know that Yeshua is my Lord and Savior. He is my Lord and His Blood washes me from any true wrong doing. Your comments are taken for what they are, and you are being taken for what you are. Because you are unrepentent, I am obliged to give you the same consideration. May Yahweh show you the true Way in Love, amen.

Of what value is anybody's "spirituality" if it is deficient of truth ? Every kind of truth Jack. Not just what we read in God's sacred Word. But those thoughts and feelings that we express to others whose paths we cross in this life. It is foolhardy to proclaim a genuine love for God ... and in the next breath claim ignorance and/or innocence of a disingenuous and purposely intended malicious post ... as your first reference to the LCMS in this thread clearly was ... with Zone clearly being the target in your crosshairs. So if you don't mind me asking, could you at least cut out the cr@p and quit pretending that your "hebrew christian" personna is going to make your hypocrisy acceptable in the eyes of God. Because it won't.

 

[zone]

Did I give the impression that I was a Mormon? Unintended.

And so your "Pastor" is concerned that he will give an account
for any non-members who walk through the door of his church?
As if nobody could skate through his "interview" a liar?

Somebody who approaches the pulpit at my church unannounced
could find himself restrained on the floor until the police show up.
We take care of our Pastor.

lolo...no.
my point was....if someone comes into your church and no one knows them....and they take communion...and it turns out they are confessing; believing and teaching in their hearts and to others outside THAT jesus is satans' brother and God lives on Kolob....is that ever a good thing?

what about someone you never met before who comes in and takes communion and you discover that day they are gay activists?
is this a good thing? Paul said NO.

yes, the Pastor makes it clear people can lie to him...but not to Christ.
that's not what closed communion is about - a bloody inquistion..okay? we WANT people to worship and take communion.
but we also have beliefs that are established.

nobody has to go through confirmation to worship with us...every day of their lives if they want to.
but Communion is closed - IF YOU HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO THE PASTOR FIRST.

that is our position.

Somebody who approaches the pulpit at my church unannounced
could find himself restrained on the floor until the police show up.
We take care of our Pastor.

oh....but our Pastor is not supposed to take care of his congregation and care for those who would take the Lord's Supper?

it's really simple and hardly dramatic.
JUST ASK BEFOREHAND if you can take communion.

something one would think any visitor to any new church would do.
yet somehow we're evil and awful.

pppfffffft.

 

[crossnote]

Well ... let's all give thanks and praise for Jack's "prayerful and much considered determination" without which, one could easily conclude that he is simply looking for and seizing any opportunity he can find to discredit Zone, an LCMS member. Below is an incomplete list of churches that practice closed communion. Let the record state that Jack believes all of them to be "worse than the pharisees".

Closed Communion Churches:
Catholic
Lutheran
Eastern Orthodox
(Some) Baptists
Orthodox Presbyterian
Exclusive Brethren
Apostolic Christian Church
(Some) Anglicans
Church Of God In Christ
... and at least a few more.

***I attend an LCMS church on occasion and have never been restricted from sharing the Lord's Supper***

isn't that because much of the LCMS has departed from their founding confessions?

 

[Stephen63]

example #1: WHY



do you fellowship and share communion with Roman Catholics who have no intention of agreeing with your SoFs and beliefs?

here's why we don't.

example (which you can extrapolate to the groups who do not take Jesus exactly at His word on this matter, but appear to take it far more lightly, offering and sharing the Lord's Supper with anyone) - the ecumenism you appear to be against? or was that before you were for it?:

from the source you are reading from:

The Lutheran church rejects and condemns incorrect understandings of the Lord’s Supper,such as the view that the sacrifice of the Mass delivers man from his sins,or that the substance of the consecrated bread and wine is actually changed into the body and blood of Christ.We also reject and condemn the view that in the Lord’s Supper the true body and blood of Christ is not received by the mouth of the communicants, under the bread and wine,but is received only spiritually in the heart by faith,or that the bread and wine are only symbols of the far-distant body and blood of our Lord.

anyways....gotta go...keep reading. hopefully not cherry-picking selectively. but eh...i can dream.

and why not visit an LCMS sometime?
you might be pleasantly surprised.

Strange how you stopped at catholics, & didn't mention all the rest.

In
whichever church one receives the Holy Supper,one is
confessing that church and its doctrine.There cannot be
a more inward,brotherly fellowship than that into which
one enters with those in whose fellowship he receives
the holy Supper. . . . Even one who confesses the Real
Presence cannot ordinarily, except in the case of death,
be admitted if he is and wants to remain,not a member
of our orthodox church,but rather a Roman Catholic,
Reformed,so-called Evangelical or Unionist,Methodist,
Baptist, in short,a member of an erring fellowship.

It does indeed seem that Evangelicals, Baptists, & Methodists cover a lot of denominations themselves, not counting denominations that believe similar to them.

Just tell the truth, LCMS doesn't take communion with other Lutherans, let alone anybody else!

 

[RedTent]

This thread was started to point out policies of a certain church, and point to scripture to say there are ways it does not follow scripture. I think that those who are part of this church show in their posts, that this is how it's members think.

Several posters have reported that they have been to churches of this sect who did not practice these ideas, but were allowed to visit other churches, and felt loving toward the universal church of our Lord. Perhaps we only need to watch the individual church if we go there.

I would hope that those who read this post skip all the put downs. This isn't a post to put down churches, even the Missouri Synod. It is to point out that if you go there, be aware that they are not open to the universal church for they often feel they are the only way.

When there was a council of Lutherans that decided they could not be part of this synod, the deciding scripture was Romans 16:17 and 18. I urge you, brothers and sisters, to keep an eye on those who cause dissensions and offenses, in opposition to the teaching that you have learned; avoid them. (18) For such people do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded.

see: www.the split:Remember the past

 

[zone]

Strange how you stopped at catholics, & didn't mention all the rest.

example (which you can extrapolate to the groups who do not take Jesus exactly at His word on this matter, but appear to take it far more lightly, offering and sharing the Lord's Supper with anyone)

It does indeed seem that Evangelicals, Baptists, & Methodists cover a lot of denominations themselves, not counting denominations that believe similar to them.

do try to spend more time on your research.

do you take Communion with Roman Catholics?
there are denominations which are Arminian...this matters.
find out why. same deal as RC.

and, since we believe in ONE BAPTISM....your second baptism or whatever is is counter to what we believe the scripture says.
so that makes that difficult. but you are welcome to attend. anytime.

no standing up prophesying and stuff though.
so prolly no fun.

ANYONE is welcome to attend LCMS all their lives.
it is Communion (The Lord's Supper that is CLOSED).

like it or lump it

 

[Stephen63]

and why not visit an LCMS sometime?
you might be pleasantly surprised.

After knowing you & your pack, why in the world would I wanna do that? I already didn't believe their doctrine, their many traditions of men in their sacriments, not to mention their similarities to the catholic church with their authority levels & costumes. Now, after knowing the LCMS's on here & how they behave.......... absolutely not! Thanks to your group I'm totally persuaded.

To other LCMS's out there that don't act like them........ maybe you should consider distancing yourselves from them. It wouldn't be good PR with popularity like that in your ranks.

 

[zone]

This thread was started to point out policies of a certain church, and point to scripture to say there are ways it does not follow scripture. I think that those who are part of this church show in their posts, that this is how it's members think.

Several posters have reported that they have been to churches of this sect who did not practice these ideas, but were allowed to visit other churches, and felt loving toward the universal church of our Lord. Perhaps we only need to watch the individual church if we go there.

I would hope that those who read this post skip all the put downs. This isn't a post to put down churches, even the Missouri Synod. It is to point out that if you go there, be aware that they are not open to the universal church for they often feel they are the only way.

When there was a council of Lutherans that decided they could not be part of this synod, the deciding scripture was Romans 16:17 and 18. I urge you, brothers and sisters, to keep an eye on those who cause dissensions and offenses, in opposition to the teaching that you have learned; avoid them. (18) For such people do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded.

see: www.the split:Remember the past

those Lutherans-so-called wanted to ordain women and homosexuals and say the bible may not be inerrent and fellowship with Rome and Charismatics and so on.

This church has decided that they are infallibly correct in every interpretation of the bible, that they are the only people who are correct. Their members may not visit another church. All of this, they say, is contained in their book called Book of Concord. If any member even visits another church, they would seem to agree with the doctrines of that church and be against God for every church has some errors in interpretation but them. Most Lutherans are not a member of the Missouri Synod for this reason.

Their ministers are not even allowed to be part of any civil gathering, like when ministers unite in a council meeting.

In the bible it states that Co 12:13 For in the one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. That one spirit comes through Jesus Christ, not the Missouri Synod Lutheran.

We can know members of this universal church by their love for each other. Joh_13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." Most Lutheran Churches include these doctrines, but not the Missouri Synod.

I would hope that those who read this post skip all the put downs. This isn't a post to put down churches, even the Missouri Synod. It is to point out that if you go there, be aware that they are not open to the universal church for they often feel they are the only way.

that means skipping your OP, redtent.
bye now.

 

[zone]

not to mention their similarities to the catholic church with their authority levels

but you hear directly from God Himself, don't you?

that in reality makes you more infallible than the Pope.

bye stephen.

 

[Huckleberry]

oh....but our Pastor is not supposed to take care of his congregation and care for those who would take the Lord's Supper?

it's really simple and hardly dramatic.
JUST ASK BEFOREHAND if you can take communion.

something one would think any visitor to any new church would do.
yet somehow we're evil and awful.

pppfffffft.

*wipes spit off of face*

Of course he is.
I just find it a ridiculous notion that one should ask
permission from a man to partake in the Lord's Supper.

I don't know or care how often your church takes communion.
I'm sure you take it very seriously, as do we.
At our church, we do it about once a month,
It's not "routine".
There is always preaching concerning the partaking of it prior to the administration.
That way any visitors and/or unbelievers present are informed of what's going on.
If they choose to partake, it's between them and God
It's supposed to be a time of self examination.

"...evil and awful"?
Well, sister, now you are wearing the drama hat.

 

[zone]

*wipes spit off of face*

Of course he is.
I just find it a ridiculous notion that one should ask
permission from a man to partake in the Lord's Supper.

I don't know or care how often your church takes communion.
I'm sure you take it very seriously, as do we.
At our church, we do it about once a month,
It's not "routine".
There is always preaching concerning the partaking of it prior to the administration.
That way any visitors and/or unbelievers present are informed of what's going on.
If they choose to partake, it's between them and God
It's supposed to be a time of self examination.

"...evil and awful"?
Well, sister, now you are wearing the drama hat.

"It's supposed to be a time of self examination."

how do you know they are even saved?
they came in and no one knows them. remember?

the evil awful part is dragged down through the OP.

okay....later.

 

[Stephen63]

do try to spend more time on your research.

Did I just hear the cauldron calling the little kettle "black"?

 

[Stephen63]

Got any links? Sources?
At least give us a wikipedia link, or a link to a geocities home page that hasn't existed since 1999.
Anything?

Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod - The New Millennium

5.When Christ returns, a “new heavens and a new earth”will
be created (2 Pet. 3:10-13). Nowhere, however, do the
Scriptures teach that at His return Christ will establish a
this-worldly,political kingdom or “millennium.”

Revelation 20:1-10 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


How many times did I just read the words "thousand years" here speaking of the millenial reign of Christ before the battle of Armageddon? Somebody needs to take this literally the way we're taught to read scripture.

 

[jimmydiggs]

 

[Hoffco]

It is such a nightmare to read These posts and to gain any insight. On the other hand, I don't mind reading the "garbage" of peoples personal or demominational thoughts, as long as they post some Bible with it. We have the religious freedom to do this with out the fear of being atttacted by our opponite, personally, or thru our PC screen. LOL. I am very glad I don't have to face some of you face to face. I have enough of that in real life. I find that opposition is greater in the Philippines with a different culture; Also because I rub shoulders with more foreigners , some very evil, just living for sex. Some from other countries, absolutely hate America or hate Christians. Some are faithful to their Philippine wife,others cheat all the time, and think nothing of it. Most people here in my village are very kind to me. They like me, because I do good to them and to their children. It is very hard being so rich???? in a very ,very poor comumity. They think I can do anything I want to. My philipine family is always saying ,you are rich, you have no money problems. I am rich, compard to them, but compared to the rich businesss people here, I am poor. I will , probperly never save enought to buy a ticket home, I don't real care to go back to the USA, I have all eternity to live with my good christian friends. It hurts alots, not seeing my family, but I will servive. The corruption is so bad. The Catholic church is a big part of the corrupt living, priests are so immoral. and liberal churches are not much better. The poor don't dare to stand against evil. Today is communion Sun. I like the way I do it. I make a big circle and give the Symbols to all. young and old. saved or lost, that is not my buisness to judge, I telll them, you must judge your self, worthy or not ,to take the elements. If you do it unworthy, then you drink damnation to yourself, I don't judge. you, God does. I can not forgive anyones sin, except those you do to me. If your are sorry ,I forgive you the sin against me, not the sins in general, or to others. And when I sin agaisnt you, and ask your forgiveness , please forgive me. It I with hold the Gospel from you ,I am holding you lost in your sins, But ,If I tell you how to be forgiven ,then I am remitting your sins. But, only God can forgive and justify you. The elements are only symbols. As Jesus said in Jh. 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." For me, that is the bottom line. I attended a Lutheran church ,under two differrent pastors. The second one was more Catholic, "the wine and bread", He said."turns into the real blood and flesh in your stomach, it is a maricle." I refused to partake under him. The first pastor was liked by all the people in the community and was a real Lutheran. He believed in consubstaniation: Jesus was spiritually present, not phsically present at communion.
Why did Jesus speak and act so rough and "stupid" at times? I believe He did so to drive unbelievers away. And to make the Leadership to kill him as was prophecied. If we want people to hate us, we should do the same, but if we want people to love us, we better be nice to them, then, if they kill us, we didn't cause them to do it. we are justified by doing good. really! Jesus said we are justified by our words and condemned by our words. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

It is such a nightmare to read These posts and to gain any insight. On the other hand, I don't mind reading the "garbage" of peoples personal or demominational thoughts, as long as they post some Bible with it. We have the religious freedom to do this with out the fear of being atttacted by our opponite, personally, or thru our PC screen. LOL. I am very glad I don't have to face some of you face to face. I have enough of that in real life. I find that opposition is greater in the Philippines with a different culture; Also because I rub shoulders with more foreigners , some very evil, just living for sex. Some from other countries, absolutely hate America or hate Christians. Some are faithful to their Philippine wife,others cheat all the time, and think nothing of it. Most people here in my village are very kind to me. They like me, because I do good to them and to their children. It is very hard being so rich???? in a very ,very poor comumity. They think I can do anything I want to. My philipine family is always saying ,you are rich, you have no money problems. I am rich, compard to them, but compared to the rich businesss people here, I am poor. I will , probperly never save enought to buy a ticket home, I don't real care to go back to the USA, I have all eternity to live with my good christian friends. It hurts alots, not seeing my family, but I will servive. The corruption is so bad. The Catholic church is a big part of the corrupt living, priests are so immoral. and liberal churches are not much better. The poor don't dare to stand against evil. Today is communion Sun. I like the way I do it. I make a big circle and give the Symbols to all. young and old. saved or lost, that is not my buisness to judge, I telll them, you must judge your self, worthy or not ,to take the elements. If you do it unworthy, then you drink damnation to yourself, I don't judge. you, God does. I can not forgive anyones sin, except those you do to me. If your are sorry ,I forgive you the sin against me, not the sins in general, or to others. And when I sin agaisnt you, and ask your forgiveness , please forgive me. It I with hold the Gospel from you ,I am holding you lost in your sins, But ,If I tell you how to be forgiven ,then I am remitting your sins. But, only God can forgive and justify you. The elements are only symbols. As Jesus said in Jh. 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." For me, that is the bottom line. I attended a Lutheran church ,under two differrent pastors. The second one was more Catholic, "the wine and bread", He said."turns into the real blood and flesh in your stomach, it is a maricle." I refused to partake under him. The first pastor was liked by all the people in the community and was a real Lutheran. He believed in consubstaniation: Jesus was spiritually present, not phsically present at communion.
Why did Jesus speak and act so rough and "stupid" at times? I believe He did so to drive unbelievers away. And to make the Leadership to kill him as was prophecied. If we want people to hate us, we should do the same, but if we want people to love us, we better be nice to them, then, if they kill us, we didn't cause them to do it. we are justified by doing good. really! Jesus said we are justified by our words and condemned by our words. Love to all, Hoffco