Women and teaching in the church

[KohenMatt]

Yeah, if a man desires the position of Overseer in God's Church, he must:

1. Be blameless
2. Husband of one wife (not the other way around)
3. Temperate (not easily angered)
4. Sober-minded (seeks the mind of Christ)
5. have good behavior (no hanky-panky)
6. Hospitable
7. Able to teach
8. Not be Alcoholic
9. Not be Greedy for money (...oops! There goes your Airport, Dr. TV-Evangelist)
10. Gentle, not quarrelsome
11. Not Covetous
12. A man who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
...for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?
13. Not a novice
14. Have Good Testimony among outsiders


Women need not apply.
Any objections to these requirements, call 1-800-1-Timothy-3, ext. God.

Does that mean these men HAVE to be married, and HAVE to have children to apply?

 

[KohenMatt]

its not a fact unless i can validate it?

what type a logic is this?

"oxygen is not a fact unless you can validate it."

Yep, you got it. Oxygen does exist and has been proven so.
Your comments, not so much.

 

[The_highwayman]

Yeah, if a man desires the position of Overseer in God's Church, he must:

1. Be blameless
2. Husband of one wife (not the other way around)
3. Temperate (not easily angered)
4. Sober-minded (seeks the mind of Christ)
5. have good behavior (no hanky-panky)
6. Hospitable
7. Able to teach
8. Not be Alcoholic
9. Not be Greedy for money (...oops! There goes your Airport, Dr. TV-Evangelist)
10. Gentle, not quarrelsome
11. Not Covetous
12. A man who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
...for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?
13. Not a novice
14. Have Good Testimony among outsiders


Women need not apply.
Any objections to these requirements, call 1-800-1-Timothy-3, ext. God.

You may want to ask your mighty man of valor, why he forgot to instruct you, that Overseer in the Greek is not PASTOR its BISHOP, which is not a pastor and the word Pastor never shows up in the New Testament, only the word Pastors and then its only once. The word Pastors shows up in all of the Bible only 9x and its never gender specific.

 

[oldhermit]

Does that mean these men HAVE to be married, and HAVE to have children to apply?

What does the text say?

 

[Imperfect]

Yep, you got it. Oxygen does exist and has been proven so.
Your comments, not so much.

its a pretty well known fact. what rock have you been living under.

a quick search will answer it for you.

 

[mystdancer50]

This thread is like a train wreck. I just can't look away! I think the point and relevance was buried on page two or three. This has now become a "I know you are but what am I" thread. Love those!

 

[KohenMatt]

What does the text say?

1 Timothy 3:1-7 "It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnationincurred by the devil.7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

 

[PoxEclipse]

Walking with purpose?

Hi folks. Lots of drama in here.
Remember, you can always walk away, collect your emotions, and come back.
Or simply decide you've repeated yourself for the buzllionth time, and saying it one more time isn't worth it, and just disengage.

Me thinks some need to step away and get control of their emotions and calm down.

Thanks!

Purpose of the Preacher

[SUP]9 [/SUP]In addition to being a wise man, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge; and he pondered, searched out and arranged many proverbs. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The Preacher sought to find delightful words and to write words of truth correctly.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]The words of wise men are like goads, and masters of these collections are like [SUP][f][/SUP]well-driven nails; they are given by one Shepherd. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But beyond this, my son, be warned: the [SUP][g][/SUP]writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

 

[KohenMatt]

1 Timothy 3:1-7 "It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnationincurred by the devil.7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Actually, my point was that if we're going to use this criteria and say that an overseer has to be a man, then the text also says that an overseer has to be married and have children.

 

[oldhermit]

1 Timothy 3:1-7 "It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnationincurred by the devil.7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Very good. The word δεῖ in verse 2 demands something that is if a binding nature and what ever follows is absolute.

 

[Gjolll]

This thread is like a train wreck. I just can't look away! I think the point and relevance was buried on page two or three. This has now become a "I know you are but what am I" thread. Love those!

You seem surprised?

For the bible believer, every man and every women who demands women be in authority is a heretic, and excommunicate for daring to controvert the bible (Tts 3:10)

Normally, the two would never meet. Only on forums like this do they meet. Really, we've got nothing in common.

You either accept the whole bible, or you pick and choose. The pickers and the choosers are found in Jude.

 

[Isdaniel]

I don't feel any such thing. I truly wish people would read my posts through entirely. Women are mocked in churches. Even here, where they say something profound that a follower of these verses is convicted by, they hurl these Scriptures as stones at them.

Here's the thing: Paul said 'I do not suffer women to teach in church.' I, as in PAUL, not God. I. That is key, and yet, that is ignored. Yet, when it is about how Paul said that he, yes Paul again, prefers that all remain single, everyone is on that one. Oh, that's Paul not Christ. What is the difference, I ask you?

The root, folks. The root. This isn't about me. I'll respond to the call God has on my life whether people accept it or not. Why? Because God means a great deal more to me than the mere opinion of man. Yet, so long as people refuse to acknowledge that Paul was stating his opinion there, not godly decree, based on cultural happenings and timings, this age old argument will continue forever and ever.

Paul said I here also

Rom 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, having been sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For what I work out, I do not know. For what I do not will, this I do. But what I hate, this I do.
Rom 7:16 But if I do what I do not will, I agree with the Law, that it is good.
Rom 7:17 But now I no longer work it out, but the sin dwelling in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good. For to will is present to me, but to work out the good I do not find.
Rom 7:19 For what good I desire, I do not do. But the evil I do not desire, this I do.
Rom 7:20 But if I do what I do not desire, it is no longer I working it out, but the sin dwelling in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then the law, when I desire to do the right, that evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;
Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members having warred against the law of my mind, and taking me captive by the law of sin being in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then I myself with the mind truly serve the Law of God, and with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[lioncub]

Allowing women to teach over men demonstrates a conformity to society, not to God.

 

[Isdaniel]

Allowing women to teach over men indicates to me a conformity to society, not to God.

 

[mystdancer50]

You seem surprised?

For the bible believer, every man and every women who demands women be in authority is a heretic, and excommunicate for daring to controvert the bible (Tts 3:10)

Normally, the two would never meet. Only on forums like this do they meet. Really, we've got nothing in common.

You either accept the whole bible, or you pick and choose. The pickers and the choosers are found in Jude.

Personally, I do not see where God said that women cannot preach or teach. I do see where Paul said that he does not permit them to do so. Paul was very wise and he would say, clearly, when something was handed down to him from God and when it wasn't, he wouldn't say that it was. In regards to teaching, Paul never says that God said they couldn't do it, just that he (Paul) doesn't allow it.

 

[RedTent]

What you are implying is that if a woman cannot be permitted to preach, she is then worthless in the Church. Paul was a great defender of women's dignity in the Church. The prohibition of these two text in no way subtracts from anything else scripture says about women and their appointed roles. Men too have prohibitions placed upon them in the Church but I do not see anyone standing up to challenge those prohibitions. The challenge to 1Cor 14 and 2Tim 2 are driven not by a desire to serve God but by a feminist agenda that stands contrary the Word of God.

I do not imply, I say what I think scripture tells us. I say straight out that I think we have to look at all scriptures to see the roles that women are to have. Where I feel you need correction is in your telling women all they may not do according to your interpretation of scripture, and you are saying absolutely nothing of the vital role that God asks women to play. I am saying straight out this is what I see you doing. If you put equal importance in all scripture, you would not do this. You tell me I imply women have to preach. I did not imply that, I don't imply. I do say, straight out, that if there is no man who will step up to the task, then God wants women to do it. It was true of Debra, when she became a judge. It is true of a lady in our church teaching Old Testament.

 

[Isdaniel]

Personally, I do not see where God said that women cannot preach or teach. I do see where Paul said that he does not permit them to do so. Paul was very wise and he would say, clearly, when something was handed down to him from God and when it wasn't, he wouldn't say that it was. In regards to teaching, Paul never says that God said they couldn't do it, just that he (Paul) doesn't allow it.

What a twist to support one's own need you donot really uphold the bible do you on this topic how sad


Pastor mystdancer50

 

[BananaPie]

Does that mean these men HAVE to be married, and HAVE to have children to apply?

Yes, the position of Overseer requires the experience acquired from governing a household. A novice husband with a baby and a toddler doesn't have the experience a husband with Christian teens in the house has, would he?

Besides, a novice husband is need in his home more than he would be needed to oversee the house of God. He would serve the Lord better by being available to his young family.

BTW, serving the tables is just as honorable as being an Overseer, and the requirements to serve the tables are:

1. Man
2. have good reputation
3. be full of the Holy Spirit
4. have wisdom

 

[Nautilus]

It's threads like this I look at my signature and just smile.

 

[BananaPie]

Good Lord! OldHermit, that is very cool stuff you've gotten there. Where did you learn all this? Did God reveal it to you? I read, re-read Rule 1, which sounds like something Geisler would say back when he was "normal" LOL.