Can deity die?
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Oldhermit, are you not able to answer the question, you keep avoiding it? Please answer my question
We can discuss our own understanding of Gehenna and Hades another time, but for now please keep on track and provide me with an answer as I have done with you.
With regard to Luke 23:43 you stated:
Please show your supporting verse that links or says Paradise is a "unseen realm where the souls of men await resurrection"? If your incapable to show scriptural proof of this self-formulated teaching simply say it my friend, you'll loose nothing but your pride, we both know there are no such verses, PM me if you have to.
We can discuss our own understanding of Gehenna and Hades another time, but for now please keep on track and provide me with an answer as I have done with you.
With regard to Luke 23:43 you stated:
Please show your supporting verse that links or says Paradise is a "unseen realm where the souls of men await resurrection"? If your incapable to show scriptural proof of this self-formulated teaching simply say it my friend, you'll loose nothing but your pride, we both know there are no such verses, PM me if you have to.
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pente :: Lexipedia - Where words have meaning ,,,, Greek: Classical Greek, feminine noun, pentecost sunday 50 days after Easter?
I would have thought this was obvious to you from Luke 16.
22“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23“In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24“And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
The scene of this entire periscope takes place in the ᾅδῃ realm. This is not the grave in which the physical bodies were placed but, a place where both the rich man and Lazarus are conscious of their surroundings. One in comfort and one in torment. This world is divided by a gulf that denies access from one to the other. Abraham is also there. This is not a fictitious place but the place where Abraham himself is. This is also neither heaven nor hell because as we see in Rev 20:17, both death and hades are cast into the lake of fire which is hell. When Jesus and the thief died it is into the ᾅδῃ realm that the soul is taken. Jesus said he would be with him in Paradise. This is the place of comfort where the poor man was also taken when he died.
22“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23“In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24“And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
The scene of this entire periscope takes place in the ᾅδῃ realm. This is not the grave in which the physical bodies were placed but, a place where both the rich man and Lazarus are conscious of their surroundings. One in comfort and one in torment. This world is divided by a gulf that denies access from one to the other. Abraham is also there. This is not a fictitious place but the place where Abraham himself is. This is also neither heaven nor hell because as we see in Rev 20:17, both death and hades are cast into the lake of fire which is hell. When Jesus and the thief died it is into the ᾅδῃ realm that the soul is taken. Jesus said he would be with him in Paradise. This is the place of comfort where the poor man was also taken when he died.
Throughout the gospels Jesus uses this reoccurring phrase "Truly I tell you" many times. EVERY time this statement is made it is immediately followed by a comma. Why is it all of a sudden, that when Jesus makes this same statement here, people want to change the rules and move the comma. The only reason this becomes an issue in this passage is because this challenges a particular theology and in order to defend the theology, they attempt to manipulate the text by moving the comma.
theology,,,if they move the comma it proves when the kingdom comes from when the Resurrection begins,,,,,it supports the belief. in part they i think are correct to want to move it,,,but if they leave it alone,it will support half of what is thought and reveal the other. the instinct is to move it though,and make it 2 instead of 3,,,,while 3 is the correct answer and it supports the 2,,,,,,, resurrections that is,,,,
Just as a matter of point, I went to the b-Greek site and researched some old discussions on the issue of the comma in Luke 23:43. The general consensus was that no one really knows and the decision seems to be split between the scholarship. The only appeal we can make then is to compare it to similar internal examples where this type of construction is found and make some comparisons.
Just as I thought, merely assumptions. This account in no why links with Luke 23:43, all you've done is assumed something regarding this account, assumed another thing with Luke 23:43 and link them in your head. Where in Luke 23:43 does it show the Paradise is the same place as the bosom position where Abraham was? It doesn't, Where does it says in Luke 23:43 that the the place the thief was going was a place of comfort? It Doesn't. Mere assumptions.
So as it stands so far the only possible explanation is my exegesis of the verse, as your one along with others has failed.
Stop saying that, you really don't understand anything do you now, greek has no punctuation therefore any punctuation is an addition to the text, meaning you are unable to manipulate text by moving comma or else all scholars would be frauds, in fact all scholars do this at their own discretion, any true Bible student knows this elementary fact.
Actually, the phrase "I say unto you this day" (or "...today") is "a common Hebrew idiom which is constantly used for very solemn emphasis" (E. W. Bullinger, Appendix 173, from The Companion Bible). Thus, it would not have been that unusual for Jesus to have said, "Truly I say to you today..." instead of applying the word "today" to the phrase which followed. Paul uses a similar turn of phrase in Acts 20:26; "I testify to you this day, that I am innocent of the blood of all men'" (The Witness, Vol. 30, No. 8, August 1990).
The only reason people translate it that way is so scripture doesn't contradict itself, its that simple.
So as it stands so far the only possible explanation is my exegesis of the verse, as your one along with others has failed.
Stop saying that, you really don't understand anything do you now, greek has no punctuation therefore any punctuation is an addition to the text, meaning you are unable to manipulate text by moving comma or else all scholars would be frauds, in fact all scholars do this at their own discretion, any true Bible student knows this elementary fact.
Actually, the phrase "I say unto you this day" (or "...today") is "a common Hebrew idiom which is constantly used for very solemn emphasis" (E. W. Bullinger, Appendix 173, from The Companion Bible). Thus, it would not have been that unusual for Jesus to have said, "Truly I say to you today..." instead of applying the word "today" to the phrase which followed. Paul uses a similar turn of phrase in Acts 20:26; "I testify to you this day, that I am innocent of the blood of all men'" (The Witness, Vol. 30, No. 8, August 1990).
The only reason people translate it that way is so scripture doesn't contradict itself, its that simple.
E
You should have done further study.
There is a huge difference between acts 20: 26 and the passage in luke,
As I already showed. The word "day" or "on this day" is an adverb. If Jesus was talking as you claim. On this day I tell you. Then the noun aspect is missing.
This is proven in acts. For the adverb is also used in Acts, however, the noun hamera is also used. Which is why we would interpret paul to say on this day I tell you.
Again, the fact the noun is missing precludes us from putting the comma after the word today. Because the adverb on this day in luke corresponds to the subject paradise. Where as the adverb in Acts corresponds to the noun humera (day)
There is a huge difference between acts 20: 26 and the passage in luke,
As I already showed. The word "day" or "on this day" is an adverb. If Jesus was talking as you claim. On this day I tell you. Then the noun aspect is missing.
This is proven in acts. For the adverb is also used in Acts, however, the noun hamera is also used. Which is why we would interpret paul to say on this day I tell you.
Again, the fact the noun is missing precludes us from putting the comma after the word today. Because the adverb on this day in luke corresponds to the subject paradise. Where as the adverb in Acts corresponds to the noun humera (day)