For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?

[gotime]

The two problems I see people having here are these.

1. people are trying to put our modern western views on a eastern culture. when you push 72 hours you show you have no clue what Jesus words meant to those with whom he spoke.

2. Trying to separate the high day Sabbath from the 7th day Sabbath. If you look at both Luke and John they follow the same order of events. John focuses on the Feast Sabbath and Luke on the 7th day Sabbath but they are both on the same day. They both happen straight after the 14th when Jesus died. and they are both directly followed by the first day.

Go read the order of Luke and then John and you will find they follow the same pattern. Jesus dies. he is put in the tomb the Sabbath comes then the first day.

Oh yeah and:

3. people are assuming that the women in Luke are the same as the Mary's in Mark. but if you read the context the Mary's are with the women so it is the women who prepare before the Sabbath, it is the Mary's that buy after the Sabbath. two different groups who were together at the cross and also came together the first day.

Blessings.

 

[gotime]

according to John, they could not have eaten the Passover meal in the upper room; since Jesus was already dead on the day of Preparation.

The upper room happened on a Thursday night which is the beginning of the Passover day. Jesus died on the Friday afternoon which is the end of the Passover day. The 14th began sunset Thursday and ends sunset Friday.

 

[zone]

The upper room happened on a Thursday night which is the beginning of the Passover day. Jesus died on the Friday afternoon which is the end of the Passover day. The 14th began sunset Thursday and ends sunset Friday.

so John said Jesus died on the day of Preparation; and the day of Preparation was at the end of the Passover Day


John 19
31Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. 32So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him. 33But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. 35He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe. 36For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken.” 37And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.”

 

[just-me]

You are not accepting the scriptures that tells you when he died and went he raised instead, clinging to three days and three nights. You will not be able to count 72 hours! But by the scriptures you know what day he was raised. He was raised the third day which is the first day of the week. By our calender Sunday is the first day of the week, Saturday would be the Sabbath.

72 hours or 75 hours makes little difference. I have always thought that it was 3 full days and three full nights. and I still do. if a person thinks about it, there could be 3 to 6 hours at the beginning and the end of those days, and it would still be 3 full days, and 3 full nights. According to the way I read the Bible, Jesus could have been buried before dark on the 14th, but it would still have to be 3 days and 3 nights in full. Jonah was probably thrown overboard before nightfall, and probably puked up during the day sometime. That would make him in the belly of the fish for more than 72 hours. Just for conversation, if Jesus would have been buried as soon as He died, 72 hours later would be 3 in the afternoon on the Sabbath. That is 2 full days and 3 full nights, therefore if we measure full days and full nights, as the Bible says, hours don't calculate according to scripture with the exception of how long Jesus hung on the cross and with incense burning, etc. By the way, Jesus didn't raise on the third day as far as I am concerned. For a better understanding, I like to use the scripture that says "after three days" instead of "on the third day." Both are right if we understand why it was written that way in different cases. I will quote;

Matthew 16:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matthew 17:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

Matthew 20:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
Matthew 27:63-64 (KJV)
[SUP]63 [/SUP]Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
[SUP]64 [/SUP]Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

Mark 8:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mark 9:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

Mark 10:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Acts 10:40 (KJV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

1 Corinthians 15:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

With all these scriptures in mind, one could easily say that Jesus rose on the 17th day of the month, but one still has to take into account the 3 nights and days had to be complete. Could be that Jonah and Jesus both only had 2 full days in darkness, and 1/2 of darkness before and after those 2 days to make up 72 hours plus, or whatever. It really isn't worth bickering over.

 

[gotime]

Mat 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Jesus knows that he will die on Passover at the pointed time given way back in Exodus.

Mat 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

Now notice the words. The first day of the feast of unleavened bread. This poses a question. how could this be the first day of Unleavened bread when the passover is about to be had?

The answer is simple, Leviticus makes it clear that the first day of unleavened bread was the day after Passover which was to be a feast Sabbath/holy convocation. But the two feasts of Passover and unleavened bread are based on each other. So here Matthew records Passover as the first day of unleavened bread when the technical first day was after Passover. For more info on this see Talmud Pesahim 5a, Soncino ed., pp. 15-17. Josephus Antiquties ii. 15. 1 This was taken place on a Thursday. Either way the bible is clear that Passover is the day before Unleavened bread begins on the 15th but they are so reliant on each other that Matthew includes Passover as part of the unleavened bread.

In chapter 27 we have the crucifixion of Jesus and then this is said:



Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

notice this happened at even what we would call afternoon. so this taking of the body of Jesus happened in the afternoon on a Friday.





Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Notice that the next day following the preparation. This means that the day Jesus died is the day of preparation. meaning that the 14th was the day of preparation on a Friday. what day followed?

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The next day specified is after the Sabbath what Sabbath is this?

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

notice the day again that Jesus died is called the preparation. and the Sabbath drew on, what does that mean.

It can not mean that a current Sabbath is in progress because it is preparation day. Sabbath comes after preparation. Thus the term means that the Sabbath is coming close.



Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

So the Sabbath that follows preparation is the 7th day Sabbath. remember Matthew makes it clear that the next day after the death of Jesus was the day following preparation. Luke tells us that the next day after the preparation is the Sabbath of the commandment.

Now mark,


Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

notice again Mark agrees that in the afternoon when the body of Jesus was taken see verses after this one. that this time of Jesus death was the preparation day just before the Sabbath.

So far 3 out of four Gospels make it clear that the 14th which was Passover was the preparation day and that Sabbath followed. Luke makes it clear that this Sabbath was the 7th day Sabbath according to the commandment.

now John.

Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

John agrees that the preparation was of the Passover. the night before this was where Jesus ate the Passover.


Just after Jesus dies John says this:

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


Again same day, this day is Passover John calls it the preparation. In every other Gospel the Passover day that Jesus died on is the preparation day and in every other Gospel the day following is the Sabbath. and Luke clarifies that it was the 7th day Sabbath.

But John adds a detail that none of the others mention he mentions the Sabbath like all the others but then adds "(for that sabbath day was an high day,)" John makes a point here, this is not just a normal weekly Sabbath but a high day. let me put this in modern terms.

John says, The Jews knew it was preparation day which is the day before the Sabbath but this Sabbath was not an ordinary weekly Sabbath it was special a high day. Remember every gospel agrees that this was the 7th day Sabbath after Friday Passover/preparation day. But John also connects the fact that this Sabbath is special because the feast Sabbath of unleavened bread falls on the same day.

This High day is in the same place that the 7th day Sabbath is in the other three Gospels. it doesn't matter how you spin it it is the same day. The day after preparation in all four gospels. Preparation fell on the day of Passover. So no two sabbaths to be found. all four gospels show the same pattern all four gospels go next to the first day of the week which is following the Sabbath.

 

[gotime]

so John said Jesus died on the day of Preparation; and the day of Preparation was at the end of the Passover Day


John 19
31Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. 32So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him. 33But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. 35He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe. 36For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken.” 37And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.”

Preparation day and Passover fell in this case on the same day.

Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Matthew says that the day Jesus died was preparation day.

so does luke:

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on

Mark agrees:

Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

and of course John.

all four gospels connect preparation day with the day of Passover when Jesus died. all four gospels follow the preparation day with the Sabbath. i posted on this just before this post.

 

[zone]

Mat 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Jesus knows that he will die on Passover at the pointed time given way back in Exodus.

Mat 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

Now notice the words. The first day of the feast of unleavened bread. This poses a question. how could this be the first day of Unleavened bread when the passover is about to be had?

The answer is simple, Leviticus makes it clear that the first day of unleavened bread was the day after Passover which was to be a feast Sabbath/holy convocation. But the two feasts of Passover and unleavened bread are based on each other. So here Matthew records Passover as the first day of unleavened bread when the technical first day was after Passover. For more info on this see Talmud Pesahim 5a, Soncino ed., pp. 15-17. Josephus Antiquties ii. 15. 1 This was taken place on a Thursday. Either way the bible is clear that Passover is the day before Unleavened bread begins on the 15th but they are so reliant on each other that Matthew includes Passover as part of the unleavened bread.

In chapter 27 we have the crucifixion of Jesus and then this is said:



Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

notice this happened at even what we would call afternoon. so this taking of the body of Jesus happened in the afternoon on a Friday.





Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Notice that the next day following the preparation. This means that the day Jesus died is the day of preparation. meaning that the 14th was the day of preparation on a Friday. what day followed?

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The next day specified is after the Sabbath what Sabbath is this?

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

notice the day again that Jesus died is called the preparation. and the Sabbath drew on, what does that mean.

It can not mean that a current Sabbath is in progress because it is preparation day. Sabbath comes after preparation. Thus the term means that the Sabbath is coming close.



Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

So the Sabbath that follows preparation is the 7th day Sabbath. remember Matthew makes it clear that the next day after the death of Jesus was the day following preparation. Luke tells us that the next day after the preparation is the Sabbath of the commandment.

Now mark,


Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

notice again Mark agrees that in the afternoon when the body of Jesus was taken see verses after this one. that this time of Jesus death was the preparation day just before the Sabbath.

So far 3 out of four Gospels make it clear that the 14th which was Passover was the preparation day and that Sabbath followed. Luke makes it clear that this Sabbath was the 7th day Sabbath according to the commandment.

now John.

Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

John agrees that the preparation was of the Passover. the night before this was where Jesus ate the Passover.


Just after Jesus dies John says this:

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


Again same day, this day is Passover John calls it the preparation. In every other Gospel the Passover day that Jesus died on is the preparation day and in every other Gospel the day following is the Sabbath. and Luke clarifies that it was the 7th day Sabbath.

But John adds a detail that none of the others mention he mentions the Sabbath like all the others but then adds "(for that sabbath day was an high day,)" John makes a point here, this is not just a normal weekly Sabbath but a high day. let me put this in modern terms.

John says, The Jews knew it was preparation day which is the day before the Sabbath but this Sabbath was not an ordinary weekly Sabbath it was special a high day. Remember every gospel agrees that this was the 7th day Sabbath after Friday Passover/preparation day. But John also connects the fact that this Sabbath is special because the feast Sabbath of unleavened bread falls on the same day.

This High day is in the same place that the 7th day Sabbath is in the other three Gospels. it doesn't matter how you spin it it is the same day. The day after preparation in all four gospels. Preparation fell on the day of Passover. So no two sabbaths to be found. all four gospels show the same pattern all four gospels go next to the first day of the week which is following the Sabbath.

but....was Jesus crucified ON PASSOVER.....because if he was, they could not have eaten the LAMB, since He was already dead.

could it have been an ordinary meal....they are not ever said to be eating the Passover LAMB. right
in other words....the meal they had in the upper room could have been a regular meal - and that is where he broke the bread and poured the cup.

no

 

[gotime]

but....was Jesus crucified ON PASSOVER.....because if he was, they could not have eaten the LAMB, since He was already dead.

could it have been an ordinary meal....they are not ever said to be eating the Passover LAMB. right
in other words....the meal they had in the upper room could have been a regular meal - and that is where he broke the bread and poured the cup.

no

Yes I agree, the supper was not the Passover itself but was a custom practiced by the Jews. The actual Passover lamb was done right at the same time that Jesus died on the cross. He is the true lamb this is why the temple curtain rent from top to bottom showing that the true Passover lamb the true sacrifice had come and the old was no longer needed.

 

[gotime]

Jesus died right at the time that the Passover lamb was to be killed according to exodus 12. The bones were not to be broken just as Jesus bones were not broken. etc.

This is the fascinating part. Jesus died on the actual date that Passover fell and at the actual time that the Passover lamb was to be killed. And the next day was unleavened bread but God made the first Day of unleavened bread a Sabbath because God knew that the real would happen that way. see Passover did not always fall on a Friday before Sabbath. So God made the first day of the feast a Sabbath as Prophecy. but the day Jesus died was the day before the Sabbath thus a high day because the type fell on the anti-type. Two Sabbaths come together to form the new covenant and put away the old. I find it amazing.

 

[gotime]

The Passover supper as I understand it, was a celebration of their liberation from slavery in Egypt. but the actual Passover lamb was done later that day. The beauty of this is that Jesus took the celebration of freedom from Egypt and pointed it to himself.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Thus what was a celebration of freedom from Egypt became for the Christian of the New Covenant a celebration of freedom from sin in Jesus. Type met anti-type.

The lamb the type met Jesus the anti-type.

Freedom from slave to Egypt type met freedom from slave to sin anti-type and so on.

 

[morninglory]

just let it be sister... Matthew 15:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.


i've spent over 3-4 months? trying to convince people to turn to God they choose not to listen... to me or anyone else so i believe it is time to let it be

Josh, you are reading the KJV? good! You need to research "the error of Balaam"; Num.22.12 God makes known what he does NOT want Balaam to do, Num.22.20 God sets Balaam at liberty to do what other direct him to do, Num.22.22 God is angry because Balaam did what God made known he did NOT want him to do in the FIRST place. Here are a few more scriptures to look up (Jude 11-13 with Jer.51.39, 1 Pet.2.16, 2 Pet.2.15-19. Unless you are Catholic and think the Church has more authority that the Word of God, the question for you to consider is, if changing the Sabbath and feasts of the Lord that were ordained in the first place, why did the Council of Nicaea wait until the Apostles were all dead to change them?

With love for the Brethren

Hashem Tzidkeinu

 

[morninglory]

but....was Jesus crucified ON PASSOVER.....because if he was, they could not have eaten the LAMB, since He was already dead.

could it have been an ordinary meal....they are not ever said to be eating the Passover LAMB. right
in other words....the meal they had in the upper room could have been a regular meal - and that is where he broke the bread and poured the cup.

no

Or might the hypocritical priests of that day done before Jesus was crucified, the same thing the council of Nicaea did after, and change the date to line up with the pagan festival that fell around the same time? That could expllain how he partook of the passover and still became it. ...I'm just saying;

By-the-way, Zone, you commented in another post, that the "time and times and the dividing of times" in Dan.7.25 is three and a half years, and I wanted to respond, but not before I researched it, and then I couldn't find that post. Anyway, I went online and checked all Bible versions, and several interlinear Bibles, and that period of time is not stated there. That is added on by the interpreters of the amplified version. Just thought I'de mention 2 Pet.2.20 says "no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation".

 

[SarahM777]

Josh, you are reading the KJV? good! You need to research "the error of Balaam"; Num.22.12 God makes known what he does NOT want Balaam to do, Num.22.20 God sets Balaam at liberty to do what other direct him to do, Num.22.22 God is angry because Balaam did what God made known he did NOT want him to do in the FIRST place. Here are a few more scriptures to look up (Jude 11-13 with Jer.51.39, 1 Pet.2.16, 2 Pet.2.15-19. Unless you are Catholic and think the Church has more authority that the Word of God, the question for you to consider is, if changing the Sabbath and feasts of the Lord that were ordained in the first place, why did the Council of Nicaea wait until the Apostles were all dead to change them?

With love for the Brethren

Hashem Tzidkeinu

Can you explain this then,why did Ignatius write this? (PS he predates the Catholic church by 300 + years,he was an apostolic father,taught by both John and Peter)

Ignatius of Antioch

Wikipedia

Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Greek: Ἰγνάτιος Ἀντιοχείας, also known as Theophorus from Greek Θεοφόρος "God-bearer") ((c. 35 or 50) - (from 98 to 117))[SUP][1][/SUP] was among the Apostolic Fathers, was the third Bishop of Antioch, and was a student of John the Apostle.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] En route to Rome, where according to Christian tradition he met his martyrdom by being fed to wild beasts, he wrote a series of letters which have been preserved as an example of very early Christian theology. Important topics addressed in these letters include ecclesiology, the sacraments, and the role of bishops.

Ignatius converted to Christianity at a young age.[SUP][4][/SUP] Later in his life he was chosen to serve as the Bishop of Antioch, succeeding Saint Peter and St. Evodius (who died around AD 67). The 4th-century Church historian Eusebius records that Ignatius succeeded Evodius.[SUP][5][/SUP] Making his apostolic succession even more immediate, Theodoret of Cyrrhus reported that St. Peter himself appointed Ignatius to the episcopal see of Antioch.[SUP][6][/SUP] Ignatius called himself Theophorus (God Bearer). A tradition arose that he was one of the children whom Jesus took in his arms and blessed.[SUP][2][/SUP]

​

Ignatius is one of the five Apostolic Fathers (the earliest authoritative group of the Church Fathers). He based his authority on being a bishop of the Church, living his life in the imitation of Christ. It is believed that St. Ignatius, along with his friend Polycarp, with great probability were disciples of the Apostle St. John.[SUP][7]

Ignatius of Antioch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[/SUP][SUP]He writes this

The Early Church Fathers
[/SUP]

Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter VIII, and Chapter IX
Be not deceived with strange doctrines, “nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies,” and things in which the Jews make their boast. “Old things are passed away: behold, all things have become new.” For if we still live according to the Jewish law, and the circumcision of the flesh, we deny that we have received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Jesus Christ. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, the Almighty, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word, not spoken, but essential. For He is not the voice of an articulate utterance, but a substance begotten by divine power, who has in all things pleased Him that sent Him.

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up againby Him and by His death–whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master–how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead.
If, then, those who were conversant with the ancient Scriptures came to newness of hope, expecting the coming of Christ, as the Lord teaches us when He says, “If ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me;” and again, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it, and was glad; for before Abraham was, I am;” how shall we be able to live without Him? The prophets were His servants, and foresaw Him by the Spirit, and waited for Him as their Teacher, and expected Him as their Lord and Saviour, saying, “He will come and save us.”

Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law,not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in ancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, whom the children of perdition, the enemies of the Saviour, deny, “whose god is their belly, who mind earthly things,” who are “lovers of pleasure, and not lovers of God, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.” These make merchandise of Christ, corrupting His word, and giving up Jesus to sale: they are corrupters of women, and covetous of other men’s possessions, swallowing up wealth insatiably; from whom may ye be delivered by the mercy of God through our Lord Jesus Christ!
[SUP]

Early Church Fathers – About the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day | Disciple of Jesus Christ

[/SUP][SUP]See he was alive and appointed by the apostles,he was taught directly by them so why does he say what he says? Also this predates the Catholic Church and Constantine by well over 250 years.
[/SUP]

 

[Hamster]

thgat is all you can say prove to me where the other night has gone

You are not going to be able to count 72 hours, but you can't refute what the scriptures say.

Christ raise the third day, which is the first day of the week.
Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week.

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. They prepared the spices before the Sabbath (same Sabbath), and kept the commandment to rest on the Sabbath, Luke 23:56. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke 24:17-21 After Jesus had risen from the grave, he appeared to two men that were talking and reasoning together of all the things which had happened. Jesus himself drew near them, but they didn't know him (Their eyes were holden that they should not know him).

Jesus said: What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

Cleopas, said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

Jesus said, What things?

They replied to Jesus, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

These scriptures above proves that Jesus died, and raised the third day, which is the first day of the week and the Sabbath day was the day before Christ risen from the dead.

 

[morninglory]

Can you explain this then,why did Ignatius write this? (PS he predates the Catholic church by 300 + years,he was an apostolic father,taught by both John and Peter)

Ignatius of Antioch

Wikipedia

Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Greek: Ἰγνάτιος Ἀντιοχείας, also known as Theophorus from Greek Θεοφόρος "God-bearer") ((c. 35 or 50) - (from 98 to 117))[SUP][1][/SUP] was among the Apostolic Fathers, was the third Bishop of Antioch, and was a student of John the Apostle.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] En route to Rome, where according to Christian tradition he met his martyrdom by being fed to wild beasts, he wrote a series of letters which have been preserved as an example of very early Christian theology. Important topics addressed in these letters include ecclesiology, the sacraments, and the role of bishops.

Ignatius converted to Christianity at a young age.[SUP][4][/SUP] Later in his life he was chosen to serve as the Bishop of Antioch, succeeding Saint Peter and St. Evodius (who died around AD 67). The 4th-century Church historian Eusebius records that Ignatius succeeded Evodius.[SUP][5][/SUP] Making his apostolic succession even more immediate, Theodoret of Cyrrhus reported that St. Peter himself appointed Ignatius to the episcopal see of Antioch.[SUP][6][/SUP] Ignatius called himself Theophorus (God Bearer). A tradition arose that he was one of the children whom Jesus took in his arms and blessed.[SUP][2][/SUP]

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Ignatius is one of the five Apostolic Fathers (the earliest authoritative group of the Church Fathers). He based his authority on being a bishop of the Church, living his life in the imitation of Christ. It is believed that St. Ignatius, along with his friend Polycarp, with great probability were disciples of the Apostle St. John.[SUP][7]

Ignatius of Antioch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[/SUP][SUP]He writes this

The Early Church Fathers
[/SUP]

Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter VIII, and Chapter IX
Be not deceived with strange doctrines, “nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies,” and things in which the Jews make their boast. “Old things are passed away: behold, all things have become new.” For if we still live according to the Jewish law, and the circumcision of the flesh, we deny that we have received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Jesus Christ. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, the Almighty, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word, not spoken, but essential. For He is not the voice of an articulate utterance, but a substance begotten by divine power, who has in all things pleased Him that sent Him.

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up againby Him and by His death–whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master–how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead.
If, then, those who were conversant with the ancient Scriptures came to newness of hope, expecting the coming of Christ, as the Lord teaches us when He says, “If ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me;” and again, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it, and was glad; for before Abraham was, I am;” how shall we be able to live without Him? The prophets were His servants, and foresaw Him by the Spirit, and waited for Him as their Teacher, and expected Him as their Lord and Saviour, saying, “He will come and save us.”

Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law,not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in ancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, whom the children of perdition, the enemies of the Saviour, deny, “whose god is their belly, who mind earthly things,” who are “lovers of pleasure, and not lovers of God, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.” These make merchandise of Christ, corrupting His word, and giving up Jesus to sale: they are corrupters of women, and covetous of other men’s possessions, swallowing up wealth insatiably; from whom may ye be delivered by the mercy of God through our Lord Jesus Christ!
[SUP]

Early Church Fathers – About the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day | Disciple of Jesus Christ

[/SUP][SUP]See he was alive and appointed by the apostles,he was taught directly by them so why does he say what he says? Also this predates the Catholic Church and Constantine by well over 250 years.
[/SUP]

Sarah, why do you suppose Ignautis is the only one of the Apsotles that said that? Even Peter started to go astray until Paul repremanded him for dissembling(Gal.2.13). Are you of the delusion that God did not over see the writing of the Bible? If God wanted that in the Bible, it would have been there! If you don't think so, then you are deceived about God's power and attentiveness. So I ask again, if changing the eternal feasts and Sabbaths was ordained in the new testament, why does it say the opposite?(2 Cor.6.14-16) They all changed when the Council of Nicaea brought in all the rest of the pollutions of idols that Paul preached against by mingling the Hebrew calendar with the Roman calendar. If it wasn't enough to mingle the Holy feast days with pagan holidays, they named all the days that God made after the pagan gods that he hates so much that he said not to even let their names be heard out of our mouths(Ex.23.13). Something no one in the Bible did. What did Ignatuis says about that? Was that okay with him too? You are another one that needs to research the error of Balaam, Num.22.12-20-22, 1 Pet.2.16, 2 Pet.2.15, Jude 11-13 wt Jer.51.39 while there is still time.

Hashem Tzidkeinu

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah, why do you suppose Ignautis is the only one of the Apsotles that said that? Even Peter started to go astray until Paul repremanded him for dissembling(Gal.2.13). Are you of the delusion that God did not over see the writing of the Bible? If God wanted that in the Bible, it would have been there! If you don't think so, then you are deceived about God's power and attentiveness. So I ask again, if changing the eternal feasts and Sabbaths was ordained in the new testament, why does it say the opposite?(2 Cor.6.14-16) They all changed when the Council of Nicaea brought in all the rest of the pollutions of idols that Paul preached against by mingling the Hebrew calendar with the Roman calendar. If it wasn't enough to mingle the Holy feast days with pagan holidays, they named all the days that God made after the pagan gods that he hates so much that he said not to even let their names be heard out of our mouths(Ex.23.13). Something no one in the Bible did. What did Ignatuis says about that? Was that okay with him too? You are another one that needs to research the error of Balaam, Num.22.12-20-22, 1 Pet.2.16, 2 Pet.2.15, Jude 11-13 wt Jer.51.39 while there is still time.

Hashem Tzidkeinu

He's not the only one. And can you please tell me where any of the Apostles explained to the gentiles HOW to keep the Sabbath? One very major detail is that the Jews marked the days from SUNSET to SUNSET, The Romans marked the days from MIDNIGHT to MIDNIGHT. If the Sabbath was meant for the gentiles to keep in the same manner as the Jews why did they leave out any mention of the difference in HOW the days were marked?

 

[Hamster]

thgat is all you can say prove to me where the other night has gone

Isdaniel, could it be that the night didn't go anywhere and the fact was the Jews custom was to calulated their days the way we do numbers. Income tax time we round to the nearest dollar, $2,000.50 becomes 2,001. Even when it was applied to only a part of a day, the Jews referred to it as a whole. This is why we can't count 72 hours, from the time Jesus died to the time he raised from the dead. I Samuel 30:12, 13 A man was found, he had not eaten any bread, nor drunk any water, for three days and three nights. Verse 13 the man said his master left him, because three days ago he fell sick. Where is the third night?

 

[Rockbysea]

Non-Jewish 7[SUP]th-[/SUP]day Sabbath keeping within today’s modern Babylonian system makes gentiles more submissive to the Babylonian/Roman beast system because the Sabbath, with its required sunset to sunset observance, restricts work opportunities to only mainstream corporate slave jobs, 5 days a week - m to f which involves total submission to the Babylonian/Roman corporate state and the indoctrination of the Babylonian higher educational system for any hope of a modest living. And because non-Jewish Sabbath keepers are excluded from the privileges and support of the local Jewish communities, their opportunities for achieving a modest level of living are limited. These situations of self-imposed increased bondage added to the natural bondage most modern Babylonians are ignorantly under will greatly further subdue the potentially ambitious non-Jew.

The deceived potentially ambitious non-Jew who falls for the lies of the non-Jewish Sabbath-keeper cult doesn’t understand that the Sabbath was only meant to be observed under the ancient Levitical priesthood established by the Lord within a sovereign and independent jurisdiction under God. It was not meant to be observed outside that jurisdiction under a Babylonian pagan system which is why the Lord took the children of Israel out of Egypt before giving them the Sabbath.

Now the ambitious are enemies of the Babylonian/Roman slave system because they are more in a position to break free of the Babylonian society mold and develop independent critical thought about things around them and about the ruling powers that enslave them. The beast system works by deception and requires blind submission and total servitude (worship) to thrive… Non-Jewish Sabbath keepers within the modern Babylonian system (who are excluded from the Jewish communities within modern Babylon) are the best at serving (worshipping) the beast system because their only ambition is to serve the Sabbath and everything they do revolves around the Sabbath. Unlike what the Lord says, that the Sabbath was made for man, meaning the Sabbath was made to serve man… the non-Jewish Sabbath cult followers within modern Babylon were made for the Sabbath… they were made to serve the Sabbath. Thus all their sacrifices and abstinence from ambitious opportunities are for the purpose of serving the Sabbath. Thus they have become not only slaves and worshippers of the Sabbath but they have become even better slaves and worshippers of the beast.

 

[Hizikyah]

So you say submitting to Yahweh is submitting to Babylon? WOW, let me guess, celebrating Bablonian rituals like christmas is the way to praise?

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing dany evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which eplease Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

 

[Rockbysea]

So you say submitting to Yahweh is submitting to Babylon? WOW, let me guess, celebrating Bablonian rituals like christmas is the way to praise?

You’re dishonest unrelated “celebrating Christmas” straw man tactic is further evidence that your arguments are all staged because all you have is the regurgitation of copy and plastered scripture and dishonest tactics.

The Sabbath was given to the children of Israel after the Lord took them out of bondage… The Sabbath is not meant to be observed by gentiles or Israelites living under foreign government authority. All your rabid scripture regurgitations were for a people living under a Levitical priesthood within a sovereign national jurisdiction on this earth under God.

This is one of the no-brainer reasons, a reasoning that does not require the aid of the Holy Spirit, beside the fact of the New Covenant, why Paul didn’t take the Law of Moses with its Sabbaths to the gentiles living under roman authority because the Lord also didn’t take the Law of Moses to the children of Israel while they were living under Egyptian authority.

Non-Jewish 7th Day Sabbath keeping under modern Babylonian jurisdiction does not serve man but it further enslaves him to that which Christ has set him free. And it also does nothing to give one a Christ-like nature evidenced by your dishonest straw man tactics deployed by those with a hidden agenda.