The Abomination of Desolation

[Vernon]

I have no prophetic revelation from God regarding the abomination that makes desolate. But I do have some understanding which I believe the Holy Spirit has revealed to me.

"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist- denying the Father and the Son.
1John 2:22

Who denies the Father (Yahweh) and the Son (Yeshua)?
Many biblical scholars throughout the history of the Church believed the son of perdition would be from the tribe of Dan a descendant from the people of Israel. I would tend to agree with this belief, but who today knows who is descended from whom, having no longer any genealogies to trace such things. Only God will know for sure He alone knowing all our genealogies back to Noah.
We read of some who say Israel has to rebuild the temple and reestablish the daily sacrifices before the son of perdition can be revealed. But this is impossible again because we have no idea who is a levite any more than we know who is from the tribe of Dan, and so the jews can never return back to their mosaic following of G_d.

So I return back to my question: Who denies both the Father (Yahweh) and the Son (Yeshua)? Who has a building built on the temple mount? who has a building placed where the holy of holies resided? Who recognizes but denies Yahweh? who recognizes but denies Yeshua?
I believe the Dome of the Rock is the abomination that makes desolate, and the Antichrist will be a muslim proclaiming himself to be Allah in the flesh. All is in place for this to happen in our generation and I believe it could happen at anytime.
Nothing is required from prophecy to take place before the tribulation begins.

May God have mercy on all our souls and keep us from the trials which are surely to come on those who have rejected his grace in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

 

[john832]

Ummm...Christ was the last sacrificial Lamb to be accepted by God. Whatever non-believing Jews wanna kill and where after that is on them. The modern day nation of Israel is kind of annoying as it is, since they are the tribe of Judah. Israel was scattered, or is being scattered still, however you wanna look at it. Also, Jesus is pretty specific about them seeing something standing where it should not. I heard something though that I hope is a joke, that the "Christian church of Israel" is going to put up a giant statue of Jesus. LOL No really though, the false prophet makes an image of the beast.

Revelation 13:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Do you guys thing the image of the beast could be the final fulfillment of the abomination? Or am I confusing prophecies concerning different events?

I don't think so, but am not dogmatic about it.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It is possible, but I think it a stretch. Christ was pretty specific about it being just as Daniel said...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Dan 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

This was Antiochus IV Epiphanes (Epidimes).

Here is an excellent commentary on Dan 11...

http://bible.ucg.org/bible-reading-program/materials/dan11x.pdf

 

[posthuman]

Since the temple is and always has been the body, it's that thing inside the individual that causes desolation to himself and others.
It's the "doom gospel." You can have no peace with it, it will torment you day and night.

But the idea of it being a future single person in a worldly temple structure is much easier to run from than the real abomination.

When will it be? Whenever you see it clearly.

while there may be a personal playing-out of scripture in each of our hearts and lives, this isn't the way to interpret Bible prophecy.
Israel was literally taken captive by Babylon, for example. as Daniel prophesied, Babylon literally fell - not the individual hearts of each Babylonian, but just as it was written. there was a literal succession of kingdoms after Nebuchadnezzar, just as Daniel prophesied - not just a metaphysical playing out of the prophesy in the hearts and minds of people.
Christ was literally hung on a cross and literally rose again; the temple was literally destroyed - not a metaphor; reality.

so i don't see why we shouldn't take this as being also a literal prophesy that will come to pass.

but now that you bring up the interpretation - the body of Christ is more than the individual believer, but the collective church -- some say accordingly that the office of the Pope, setting himself up as the mediator between God and man, demanding obeisance that should be given only to God, declaring his statements ex-cathedra and ordaining the abominable worship of Mary - some say that the Pope is the "Abomination that maketh desolate"

 

[posthuman]

I believe the Dome of the Rock is the abomination that makes desolate, and the Antichrist will be a muslim proclaiming himself to be Allah in the flesh. All is in place for this to happen in our generation and I believe it could happen at anytime.
Nothing is required from prophecy to take place before the tribulation begins.

this makes a lot of sense to me; Islam waits for a '12th Imam' to show up -- and their principle of abrogation means that such a one could claim to speak new and direct revelation, contradicting any previous prophet or herald, so that he could in fact fulfill all the blasphemy that the Man of Sin is prophesied to set up. not claiming to "be Allah himself" but to speak directly for Allah, and any previous scripture be damned. (Mohammed directly contradicted much of the Koran in his teachings - same principle applies here)

this would be a descendant of Abraham, either through Ismael or Isaac.

 

[reject-tech]

while there may be a personal playing-out of scripture in each of our hearts and lives, this isn't the way to interpret Bible prophecy.
Israel was literally taken captive by Babylon, for example. as Daniel prophesied, Babylon literally fell - not the individual hearts of each Babylonian, but just as it was written. there was a literal succession of kingdoms after Nebuchadnezzar, just as Daniel prophesied - not just a metaphysical playing out of the prophesy in the hearts and minds of people.
Christ was literally hung on a cross and literally rose again; the temple was literally destroyed - not a metaphor; reality.

so i don't see why we shouldn't take this as being also a literal prophesy that will come to pass.

but now that you bring up the interpretation - the body of Christ is more than the individual believer, but the collective church -- some say accordingly that the office of the Pope, setting himself up as the mediator between God and man, demanding obeisance that should be given only to God, declaring his statements ex-cathedra and ordaining the abominable worship of Mary - some say that the Pope is the "Abomination that maketh desolate"

Yes, I believe there will be a literal man accused of being that abomination. Many speculations already exist. For the last 30 years or so that I've watched it happen, they have all been wrong. And I believe that when the majority openly agrees and challenges whoever they accuse, they will still be wrong, because the spiritual part has not played out in their lives, they are only looking for an external abomination and because they haven't dealt with the real one, they aren't truly equipped to make those kinds of identifications.

The spiritual side of it is more important, and necessary to see the outward side of it.
I could care less what physical man get's accused of being the abomination. because having dealt with the inward abomination, I am told I will be kept from that hour.
"I ain't 'fraid of no antichrist" in other words. Because I have seen it all around me my entire memorable life. I have seen it everywhere from the papacy all the way down to the mom and pop local baptist church, spoken to and against it face to face, and when we part ways, I am not tormented afterward, but it always is. It despises me.
It is the doom gospel, be it an idea, or any human representative of it.
And it hasn't gotten me yet. But my heart cries out for all who fall for it, when their heart at some point, often repeatedly, tells them better.
I have that to worry about much more so than "who's it gonna be", and I wish more people did.

 

[posthuman]

OK i understand what you mean ^^

 

[GodIsSalvation]

The ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION has not been set up yet. Other signs must come first.

A note on the two most probable speculations for the Abomination:

1. The statue of Zeus erected by Antiochus was not placed in the most holy place, but was put un top of the sacrificial altar, thus it could not be the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION. (Also, cool bit of history/pseudo-bible is Judas Maccabeus tore down the altar/statue and purified the temple. Lol so it would seem the Olympian was destroyed by a mere human.)

2. The Dome of The Rock. This one is tricky. Now I once thought the Dome of the Rock might be that famous Abomination too. However upon careful study you will notice the Dome of the Rock is not in the Holy Place. Therefore the Dome of the Rock is not the Abomination. Though I should add, this is a good starting point into realizing some very wild things. I personally don't want to give away the secret of the past two millenia, lest some fool attempt to fulfill the prophecies, but if you investigate this further you will no doubt stumble upon it.

 

[dcontroversal]

This should be understood as the abomination that maketh desolate and lest we forget the little horn that is coming will be called Apollyon in Greek and his Hebrew name is Abaddon and shall be known as the destroyer. His policies will bring ruin and destruction not only to the human race and the planet, but will also bring desolation to the Middle East via the wrath of God being poured out on his kingdom. At the 7th trump a statement is made about it being time to destroy those who are actively destroying the earth. Just a few thoughts.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

This should be understood as the abomination that maketh desolate and lest we forget the little horn that is coming will be called Apollyon in Greek and his Hebrew name is Abaddon and shall be known as the destroyer. His policies will bring ruin and destruction not only to the human race and the planet, but will also bring desolation to the Middle East via the wrath of God being poured out on his kingdom. At the 7th trump a statement is made about it being time to destroy those who are actively destroying the earth. Just a few thoughts.

Interesting thoughts. Only nuance I would have is that the Little Horn of Daniel might not be applicable to the Revelations prophecy but may have been a separate prophecy itself (and might have been fulfilled all ready.) Apollyon/Abaddon seem to mean to either be fallen angels or something of its own distinct taxonomy that will be loosed out of the bottomless pit.

Apart from that nuance, very good input in my opinion, especially in regards to the 7th trumpet and how regardless of who the 2nd beast is, that his policies will only worsen the state of the earth and be a bane to even the fools that will follow him and worship the image he makes unto the first beast, an abomination which will make desolate.

Interesting thoughts either way though.

 

[doulos]

john832, the historical position on this is that it occurred in AD 70 when the Romans sacked Jerusalem. Older commentaries (Matthew Henry's, Adam Clark's, etc.) will verify this. Newer commentaries, those promoting the dispensationalist-futurist interpretation have attempted to reverse the historical position on this subject. They futurize this and Daniel's 70 week to better create the idea of a second chance for "the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9), for the neo-Pharisees they masquerade as "Israel."

Incorrect, the view that says all (except the second coming) was fulfilled in 70AD is partial preterism (not historicism). Partial preterism like futurism is a derivative of the antireformation writings. Both partial preterism and the futurists views are direct descendants of the antireformation writings of Jesuit priests. In the case of futurism (be it pre, mid or post trib) are derived from the antireformation writing of the Jesuit priest Ribera. Partial preterism is a derivative of the writings of the Jesuit priest Alcazar. You user name indicates you are a historicists, but your view says differently. Please take a moment and visit http://www.christianeschatology.com/ to gain an understanding of what a historicist really is.

According to your view who is the false prophet of Rev19:20? After all if most of prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD you should be able to tell us who it was.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

How were these verses fulfilled in 70AD if Jerusalem remained under gentile control until 1967?

By the way unlike you I do use the historical method of interpretation, I am neither a partial preterist (which if I understand you correctly is the camp you fall in) nor am I a futurist. As a historicist I recognize that the events leading to the second advent of Christ unfold over many centuries, not just a few years. You know, just like the prophetic Scriptures leading to Christ’s first advent unfolded over many centuries. Mal3:6 and Heb13:8 tells us God does not change. So why would you believe an unchanging God changed His method of operation concerning prophecy?

As you are led friend, as you are led!

 

[doulos]

Uh, John did not look at a year as 365-1/4 days, he referred to time, times and half a time, 42 months and 1260 days.

You might want to talk to some Jewish scholars time, times and half a time is a Jewish idiom representing 2 1/2 not 3 1/2. In addition during Johns time they were already using a 365 1/4 days in a year.

 

[doulos]

America isn't mentioned in prophecies of the end times. .

While The U.S. is not specifically mentioned all nations would include the U.S.. As my post you replied to said all nations (which would include the U.S. unfortunately) turn on Israel in the end.

Zec 14:1- 2 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

do we think America won't be judged? she surely will.

Don’t jump to conclusions. I never said or implied the U.S. would not be judged. So why are you saying this? What does this have to do with what I said? Are you trying to put words in my mouth? I do believe all will be judged on judment day.

 

[doulos]

Better yet, go to www.truthinhistory.org.

I'm not interested in fallacy. Thanks anyway!

 

[doulos]

Ummm...Christ was the last sacrificial Lamb to be accepted by God. Whatever non-believing Jews wanna kill and where after that is on them. The modern day nation of Israel is kind of annoying as it is, since they are the tribe of Judah. Israel was scattered, or is being scattered still, however you wanna look at it. Also, Jesus is pretty specific about them seeing something standing where it should not. I heard something though that I hope is a joke, that the "Christian church of Israel" is going to put up a giant statue of Jesus. LOL No really though, the false prophet makes an image of the beast.

Revelation 13:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Do you guys thing the image of the beast could be the final fulfillment of the abomination? Or am I confusing prophecies concerning different events?

For starters the two horned beast is a kingdom not the false prophet.
We learn in Daniel that in the figurative language of prophecy beasts are kingdoms.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If the unchanging God/Word tells us a beast is a kingdom in Daniel it will still be a kingdom in Revelation. Can you show us where the unchanging God/Word changed the definition of a beast from a kingdom to the false prophet? Wouldn’t that require Scripture to contradict Scripture?

If you would like to see a hermeneutically sound study of the prophetic Scriptures I suggest reading the free online book The False Prophet <click

May God bless your studies!

 

[doulos]

Since the temple is and always has been the body, it's that thing inside the individual that causes desolation to himself and others.
It's the "doom gospel." You can have no peace with it, it will torment you day and night.

Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.
What part of the body is considered the wing of the temple?

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

As the above verse demonstrates it is Jerusalem that is desolated, not the body.

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

So now a person is an it? Since when?

 

[doulos]

2. The Dome of The Rock. This one is tricky. Now I once thought the Dome of the Rock might be that famous Abomination too. However upon careful study you will notice the Dome of the Rock is not in the Holy Place. Therefore the Dome of the Rock is not the Abomination.

The dome of the rock is standing in a holy place! Doesn’t the dome of the rock stand on the temple mount in Jerusallem? Isn’t Jerusalem a place? Isn’t Jerusalem called a holy city? Isn’t a city a place?

Neh_11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Now let’s look at where Daniel said the abomination of desolation would be.
Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the sevenhe will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. Niv copywright 1984

Christ said the AOD would stand in the holy place, and indeed it does. Now you can say that the dome of the rock is not standing in a holy place but even Scripture says Jerusalem is a holy city. So if we do as Christ instructed and refer back to Daniel it becomes apparent the holy place Christ is referring to is not the holy of holies. After all the holy of holies was not on the wing of the temple, but instead in the inner chambers. So if we build precept upon precept, line upon line as Scripture instructs we can eliminate the holy of holies being the location of the AOD!

May God bless your studies!

 

[dcontroversal]

While The U.S. is not specifically mentioned all nations would include the U.S.. As my post you replied to said all nations (which would include the U.S. unfortunately) turn on Israel in the end.

Zec 14:1- 2 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.



Don’t jump to conclusions. I never said or implied the U.S. would not be judged. So why are you saying this? What does this have to do with what I said? Are you trying to put words in my mouth? I do believe all will be judged on judment day.

I think the U.S. is represented in scriptures as the daughter of Babylon. Study all 12 chapters in the bible that deal with it and you get a 10.5 billion to one that it is the U.S. when you do the math. (She) falls in a strike from the north that comes from thence that burns her cities with fire destroys all of her young men of war in one hour. The strike comes from between the Black and Caspian seas and is instigated by Persia, Turkey and Egypt. Just a few of the some 80 characteristics listed.

 

[doulos]

I think the U.S. is represented in scriptures as the daughter of Babylon. Study all 12 chapters in the bible that deal with it and you get a 10.5 billion to one that it is the U.S. when you do the math. (She) falls in a strike from the north that comes from thence that burns her cities with fire destroys all of her young men of war in one hour. The strike comes from between the Black and Caspian seas and is instigated by Persia, Turkey and Egypt. Just a few of the some 80 characteristics listed.

The term daughter of Babylon is only used in 5 verses, all of them in the Old Testament. Once in Psalms, once in Isaiah, twice in Jeremiah and the last use of the term is in Zechariah. So I am assuming you mean Mystery Babylon (please correct me if I have misunderstood you).

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

For this verse to be true Babylon had to exist when Cain murdered Abel on into our future. After all that is the only way Babylon could contain the blood of all slain upon the earth. Therefore Babylon cannot be constrained by time or location. Since there is not a single city or religion that has existed from the time Cain murdered Abel on into our future we must recognize that Babylon is not a literal city but figurative language. Did the U.S. exist when Cain murdered Abel? Hmmmm Cain was murdered approximately 6000 years ago, the U.S. has only existed for a little over 200 years, this fact alone eliminates the U.S. from being mystery Babylon. But this does not exclude the U.S. (or any other nation) from partaking in her iniquities.

Just my opinion but I suspect Babylon is a figurative picture of all the lost, of the world’s ungodly systems (lust, greed, false religions etc..) and those who glory in them.

 

[RedTent]

What is wrong with "Scripture doesn't give enough information so we can be sure". To not know only hurts our pride.

 

[nathan3]

Haven't seem much lately here about this, what is it? When will it be and what does it mean?

it's Satan, in the role of antichrist. it abomination, because hes claiming to be Christ, desolation, to those souls who believe it. Simply its just Satan. Read II Thess 2. for starters.