Can a woman be 'called' by God into ministry to teach and preach men?

[GreenNnice]

One sure and certain sign of apostasy...a woman in the pulpit as pastor of a church. God does not call women to pastor churches men do. There is a way that seems right unto men but the end thereof is destruction. Sound doctrine or political correctness you choose.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hey, don't use the word 'apostasy' for issues of doctrine, bro. I know, you got a 'like' from BELIEVING and phil, but, come on, let's be real .It's not saying no to Jesus and your belief in Him, or, in other words, or, word, APOSTIZING, because you think that a woman CAN pastor a church.

No, no, nooooooooooooo.

IF you want to be so staunch and certain like that, at least, get Scripture verses to back you. And, I think, even phil, BELIEVING,tuck will all tell you, too, it'suptoHim, that there's nowhere in Scripture that says that a woman who is called by God to pastor a church is doing 'apostosty' or, is abandoning her faith in God. Silly to think that, don't ya think .

 

[JesusLives]

This is a post I made earlier that won't be answered by the person it is directed to, but applies to here too with the "It only applied to that situation" concept.

A few things on this because I have hear this side before.

1. If it was only for them, why is it in the bible?
2. If men and women are to teach, then why would Paul tell them to not have that be so? If the bible is in support of women teaching, then why does Paul say it is wrong to do so?
3. If you right this off as "just for them" then by that logic I can right all of Paul's letters off as "just for them". There goes half the NT.
4. Paul was "fixing" them. If he says to not allow women to teach men, then one of the problems was probably that they were letting women teach. If he is fixing them, and that is how he is doing it, couldn't the problem be women were teaching? And if that is thing Paul is fixing, shouldn't we fix it as well? If paul is trying to make their church better and he does it by not allowing women to teach, we should do the same.

Not trying to seem disrespectful, just looking for answers for those 4 points to how they fit with that style of thinking?

Women were treated as second class citizens back in bible times and in some of the middle east countries not much better today. Of course the men would not listen to a woman back then. If the women in some of these countries today have to wear burkas and keep their faces covered it was probably much worse in bible times.

God will not condemn me to Hell if I give a man a bible study - that's teaching a man. He would not condemn me to Hell if I preached a sermon on salvation. A good tree yields good fruit and a bad tree yields bad fruit. The disciples told Jesus they told someone to stop doing what he was doing casting out demons in Jesus name and Jesus replied to them. If they are not against us they are for us and they should not have told him to stop.

Jesus is coming soon and the troops need to rally and spread the gospel so that everyone has a chance for salvation. I feel bad that you want to argue over who should teach or preach. Big waste of time and I am really done now with this thread.

 

[phil112]

Your right paul=paul, but pauls words that made it into the bible=god's words.

Oysters and footballs, tucksma. This is one that has he mind made up.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

He is interested only in strife and his labors will provide him with a harvest.

even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Shake the dust off your shoes and keep moving.

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.

 

[notuptome]

Hey, don't use the word 'apostasy' for issues of doctrine, bro. I know, you got a 'like' from BELIEVING and phil, but, come on, let's be real .It's not saying no to Jesus and your belief in Him, or, in other words, or, word, APOSTIZING, because you think that a woman CAN pastor a church.

No, no, nooooooooooooo.

IF you want to be so staunch and certain like that, at least, get Scripture verses to back you. And, I think, even phil, BELIEVING,tuck will all tell you, too, it'suptoHim, that there's nowhere in Scripture that says that a woman who is called by God to pastor a church is doing 'apostosty' or, is abandoning her faith in God. Silly to think that, don't ya think .

You've already rejected all the scripture on the subject. I am simply stating that God does not and will not call a woman to pastor a church. God's arm is not shortened that He cannot supply every pulpit with a man equipped to do the job of pastoring a local church. You see pastors are a gift from God to the local church. Eph 4:11 Saying that there are not enough pastors is like saying God cannot save everyone who calls upon Him for salvation.

Shape up and fly right. These are serious issues in the church today.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Women were treated as second class citizens back in bible times and in some of the middle east countries not much better today. Of course the men would not listen to a woman back then. If the women in some of these countries today have to wear burkas and keep their faces covered it was probably much worse in bible times.

God will not condemn me to Hell if I give a man a bible study - that's teaching a man. He would not condemn me to Hell if I preached a sermon on salvation. A good tree yields good fruit and a bad tree yields bad fruit. The disciples told Jesus they told someone to stop doing what he was doing casting out demons in Jesus name and Jesus replied to them. If they are not against us they are for us and they should not have told him to stop.

Jesus is coming soon and the troops need to rally and spread the gospel so that everyone has a chance for salvation. I feel bad that you want to argue over who should teach or preach. Big waste of time and I am really done now with this thread.

We are all called to be witnesses. We are not all called to be pastors.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GreenNnice]

You've already rejected all the scripture on the subject. I am simply stating that God does not and will not call a woman to pastor a church. God's arm is not shortened that He cannot supply every pulpit with a man equipped to do the job of pastoring a local church. You see pastors are a gift from God to the local church. Eph 4:11 Saying that there are not enough pastors is like saying God cannot save everyone who calls upon Him for salvation.

Shape up and fly right. These are serious issues in the church today.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

not 'apostasy,' itsuptoHim. God CAN and WILL use women instead of men, He has, what am I saying, women pastors are in the pulpit today and God is using them. How they got there is of no concern nor consequence to you or I, itsuptoHim.
I pray God wakes you up to not judging others, because 'apostasy' is a very big word, one of utmost judging of another of the SAME FAITH IN GOD as you. Again,l women as pastors is a doctrine question, NOT of salvation-deciding value and, certainly, not something that is a turning away from Christ because they believe a woman CAN pastor men in a church.

 

[sc81]

if you think female preachers is fine then by extension a female could also be the spiritual leader and figure over her husband in the household a well.

that's now how it works

 

[GreenNnice]

if you think female preachers is fine then by extension a female could also be the spiritual leader and figure over her husband in the household a well.

that's now how it works

Really? Did I just read what I think I read ?

C'mon, there is no correlation nor standard nor parallel,between:

1. a woman God could call to pastor a congregation

and

2. a wife who is to submit to her husband

=======-=======

No rhyme or reason, even, to say this, there is NO extension, scme. C'mon.

 

[sc81]

Really? Did I just read what I think I read ?

C'mon, there is no correlation nor standard nor parallel,between:

1. a woman God could call to pastor a congregation

and

2. a wife who is to submit to her husband

=======-=======

No rhyme or reason, even, to say this, there is NO extension, scme. C'mon.

if a woman thinks that men leading a church is only because of a patriarchal society and irrelevant in the 21st century then something like submission to her husband is also just an outdated concept regardless of what God said in the Bible.

God is also makes ordered rules, a woman and man do not swap roles of authority between going to church and coming home

 

[BELIEVE]

if a woman thinks that men leading a church is only because of a patriarchal society and irrelevant in the 21st century then something like submission to her husband is also just an outdated concept regardless of what God said in the Bible.

God is also makes ordered rules, a woman and man do not swap roles of authority between going to church and coming home

amen brother sc81 amen.

 

[GreenNnice]

if a woman thinks that men leading a church is only because of a patriarchal society and irrelevant in the 21st century then something like submission to her husband is also just an outdated concept regardless of what God said in the Bible.

God is also makes ordered rules, a woman and man do not swap roles of authority between going to church and coming home

I'm wondering, how many Christian women on c.c. will 'like' your post. That will say it ALL to you, and, me, and , everybody. I'm guessing, NONE will 'like' your post about female preachers thinking they should be 'man of the house.'

It's just nuts to even compare the two, as I said. Sigh, the Lord leads. He'll lead us all, if we let Him, and, saying this kind of thing is YOUR listening to the Enemy, and, your distinct assumption of women who pastor would lead household.

c'mon, didn't someone ever tell you, 'Never assume.'

amen brother sc81 amen.

Really?

 

[sc81]

I'm wondering, how many Christian women on c.c. will 'like' your post. That will say it ALL to you, and, me, and , everybody. I'm guessing, NONE will 'like' your post about female preachers thinking they should be 'man of the house.'

well what God says is unpopular, even amongst christians more and more as apparent by the 60% who voted yes.

so not really concerned if women don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong in a biblical sense. I don't think most christian women are able to admit the extent that feminism has damaged their view of men and gender roles in regards to what God says on that matter.

 

[GreenNnice]

well what God says is unpopular, even amongst christians more and more as apparent by the 60% who voted yes.

so not really concerned if women don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong in a biblical sense. I don't think most christian women are able to admit the extent that feminism has damaged their view of men and gender roles in regards to what God says on that matter.

You should be concerned with women agreeing, LOL, and, no, bro, it's NOT right in a biblical sense either.

Anyway, uh, yeah, you better care, the women are the ones who you're making the assumption of, that is, that they will rule the household and not submit to their husband, if that woman is a woman pastor.

*Ask Angela what she thinks of your accusation, don't you think, she's a good one for this?

Also, the statement is really, truly, irrelevant because you don't even speak of the topic at hand, sigh, you're off on some tangent about feminism of women and the post is about women pastors being called by God. You're waaaay off base, brother, in more ways than one.

LOL, phil, agrees. Nice. Makes sense though. He would, he's as anti-women as they come, in my opinion, that's said IN :LOVE, by the way. It's called discipline and God's giving it to anyone that wants to soot women pastors without His counsel. And, hey! Didn't God speak to Job like that in chapter 38 And, LOL, I've been counseling, tuck, phil, BELIEVING for some time now. And, to what thanks Ah, so it is, the Lord leads, we'll just leave it up to Him

Women who teach or pastor do NOT parallel or translate to a wife who does NOT submit to her husband, are we all in agreement here, even phil, now?

 

[phil112]

LOL, phil, agrees. Nice. Makes sense though. He would,

he's as anti-women as they come, in my opinion, that's said IN :LOVE, by the way.

I have two daughters that I raised, as a single parent, until they left home at 18. Both have families, full time jobs, and one just graduated college while working and raising a family. I taught them how to drive, how to check their oil, and change their flats. Why don't you ask them, or my grandaughters, or my ex, or any woman that knows me if I am anti-women?
When someone repeatedly tells a falsehood after being corrected, they can be only one thing.
You are a liar.

And, LOL, I've been counseling, tuck, phil, BELIEVING for some time now.

LOL...everything is funny to you, isn't it. Since you have proven yourself to be a liar, I want proof you are 45. You talk and act like you are 13 and doing a lot of copy and paste.

Not only that, but counseling me? Another bald-faced lie. Hindering is the word.

 

[tucksma]

Let it go, bro, you must have a problem with understanding, of letting things go?? I said that I nic everyone, and, like i said, I've been on christianchat.com 5+ years and I can name--out of the 100s of people I've NICKNAMED-- on one hand those who've said, "Don't call me that nic." That's fine, no problem, bro, YOU are tuck. Again, I shouldn't have to re-explain but there was no disrespect in calling you "tucksmama" or 'tucksmamaboy,' HEY! girls even like guys who get along with their mama So...... just drop it, eh, tuck, buddy, brother


herme, only TWO have said 'maybe,' so, most do have an opinion on this poll, brother . 28 -yes , 17 - no , 2 - maybe .




NO! ALL sins are covered by the blood of Christ to those who confess, unless Scripture lies. "IF we confess our sins, He is just and faithful to forgive us OUR SINS and cleanse (purify) us from ALL unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 .

But, a woman asking God IF she can pastor and God providing a way for her to do it is even being compared to an unforgiveable sin at judgment day? Laughable.

Anyway, yeah, the blood of Christ COVERS all your sins, past, present, future, for those who CONFESS them to Him. That's the bible speaking, not me

==========
OK, to say a comment for getting us BACK on topic to my thread.....


Paul said, "I suffer...." He didn't say , 'God suffers a woman to teach or have authority over a man.... " OK? Let's get that straight. The "I" word IS important. But, true, too, Paul's opinion is God breathed, so NO DOUBT God does NOT prefer a woman to teach a man in church OR God would have 'breathed' different words into the Paul's epistles

And, let's get this straight, too. Just because Paul says that he suffers not a woman to preach or teach in a certain way--over men, in this case, this does NOT mean that God cannot OVERride what dear brother Paul is saying is Truth. And, it is Truth, Paul speaks Truth, He is speaking with an "I" about a subject that is important to Him and, for the most part, IS the way God wants it to be. We know that because there is no contradiction of saying that Paul is wrong by God in the verses following 1 Tim. 2:11-12. It does speak of ORDER, with man being first, and, woman being second, because of creation and deceived reasons Paul says, and, women can't preach or teach men but saved by childbearing. But, it does not ALSO say that a woman is NEVER to preach or teach a man.

Again, Paul is NOT God. Sorry, guys He's not. And, like lookinguptoJESUS says, God doesn't need our permission to permit Him to do things differently to accomplish His purpose. Quit being so women bashing and thinking it's an absolute ultimatum of words by Paul that women can NEVER preach or teach a man in church setting. The bible doesn't say that. So.....why do you

I had, it was only brought up because the highway man brought it up.

 

[tucksma]

Women were treated as second class citizens back in bible times and in some of the middle east countries not much better today. Of course the men would not listen to a woman back then. If the women in some of these countries today have to wear burkas and keep their faces covered it was probably much worse in bible times.

God will not condemn me to Hell if I give a man a bible study - that's teaching a man. He would not condemn me to Hell if I preached a sermon on salvation. A good tree yields good fruit and a bad tree yields bad fruit. The disciples told Jesus they told someone to stop doing what he was doing casting out demons in Jesus name and Jesus replied to them. If they are not against us they are for us and they should not have told him to stop.

Jesus is coming soon and the troops need to rally and spread the gospel so that everyone has a chance for salvation. I feel bad that you want to argue over who should teach or preach. Big waste of time and I am really done now with this thread.

You didnt answer 1.
With #2 you answered it, but God wouldn't change how he wants things done because of sinning men which is what you are saying he did. You are saying God didn't have women teach then because men weren't willing to listen but now he's cool with it. How do you know he is cool with it? Does it say it in the bible?
#3 still applies and you didn't answer.
#4 still applies and you sort of answered, but it didn't seem too fit that well.

 

[tucksma]

c'mon, didn't someone ever tell you, 'Never assume.'

Alright finally we agree on something, never assume. What are we doing? Looking at God's word to make a stand. -not assuming.

You are looking at a women as a pastor and assuming God is using her. -assuming.

You look at the world and make an opinion, we look at scripture and agree with his word.

The logic of "well God's put a women as pastor so it most be ok" is like saying "well God's let gays get legal so it must be okay"

If someone wants to go against God they can. It happens all the time. Its the same thing with women pastors. They are going against him. Its like Kain and Able. Both tried supporting God, but Kain did it "his way". Women are doing it "their way" right now. Are they trying to support God? Absolutely. So was Kain. Are they doing it how God stated he wants it done? NOPE.

We don't assume, we look at scripture. You ignore scripture and assume she is being used.

 

[nathan3]

The most important roll, in in the final generation is going to play out with a stand against the antichrist, as Peter said, its going to be just like he and the 12 did on Pentecostal day, but God through Peter said, its going to be women also, doing that witness. But, God, will be speaking through them, not to just people in a church, but to the entire world.
These women, would have to be among the Elect ; and be fully aware of God's plans in His word: If they are to that level, then they can most certainly teach anyone, and teach the full truth to women and men, and God would be totally pleased as Christ was with those two churches in Revelation.
That is written.

Some of you are not taking into thought, the fact there was trouble makers in that particular church, and problem among the women , that they were chatting, with vain jangling, not allowing people to learn. That is what Paul was addressing at that church. To just skip the first part of the letter, and all those detail, and hyper focus on a verse, that would be taking something out of its context.

The advice Paul gave is important. but its not going to be fully grasp what he was saying in its entirety; if we do not listen to the rest of God's words. We need to really start listing also to the first part of Paul's letters there also.

 

[tucksma]

You should be concerned with women agreeing, LOL, and, no, bro, it's NOT right in a biblical sense either.

Anyway, uh, yeah, you better care, the women are the ones who you're making the assumption of, that is, that they will rule the household and not submit to their husband, if that woman is a woman pastor.

*Ask Angela what she thinks of your accusation, don't you think, she's a good one for this?

Also, the statement is really, truly, irrelevant because you don't even speak of the topic at hand, sigh, you're off on some tangent about feminism of women and the post is about women pastors being called by God. You're waaaay off base, brother, in more ways than one.

LOL, phil, agrees. Nice. Makes sense though. He would, he's as anti-women as they come, in my opinion, that's said IN :LOVE, by the way. It's called discipline and God's giving it to anyone that wants to soot women pastors without His counsel. And, hey! Didn't God speak to Job like that in chapter 38 And, LOL, I've been counseling, tuck, phil, BELIEVING for some time now. And, to what thanks Ah, so it is, the Lord leads, we'll just leave it up to Him

Women who teach or pastor do NOT parallel or translate to a wife who does NOT submit to her husband, are we all in agreement here, even phil, now?

Actually Jesus says those who follow him will be persecuted. SO the fact that he won't be getting likes from women doesn't mean he isn't right. Its the opinion of God that matters, not the opinion of men/women.

Also you haven't been counseling me. Don't put yourself in a higher position than me in your head, cause youre not. Don't toot your own horn.


Women pastoring is a parallel to how they are in the home! Why? Well one its talked about side by side in Tim. Also if I wife is to submit to her husband, yet leads him at service, then wheres the submission? There is such a huge parallel its insane! The church are the bride, Christ the Bridegroom. In a marriage, men represent Christ (bridegroom) and women represent the church (bride). It doesn't change when you walk in the church building. Men still represent Christ and women the church! SO who should pastor? The church, or Christ. I'm not saying we are to the caliber of Christ at all! We are FAR from it. It just shows the order of how things are. Men represent the bridegroom or Christ. This representation should be leading, not the representation of the followers of Christ.

 

[tucksma]

The most important roll, in in the final generation is going to play out with a stand against the antichrist, as Peter said, its going to be just like he and the 12 did on Pentecostal day, but God through Peter said, its going to be women also, doing that witness. But, God, will be speaking through them, not to just people in a church, but to the entire world.
These women, would have to be among the Elect ; and be fully aware of God's plans in His word: If they are to that level, then they can most certainly teach anyone, and teach the full truth to women and men, and God would be totally pleased as Christ was with those two churches in Revelation.
That is written.

Some of you are not taking into thought, the fact there was trouble makers in that particular church, and problem among the women , that they were chatting, with vain jangling, not allowing people to learn. That is what Paul was addressing at that church. To just skip the first part of the letter, and all those detail, and hyper focus on a verse, that would be taking something out of its context.

The advice Paul gave is important. but its not going to be fully grasp what he was saying in its entirety; if we do not listen to the rest of God's words. We need to really start listing also to the first part of Paul's letters there also.

It doesn't say the vian chatting were because of the women, it doesn't say that that is the reason women cannot teach. It doesn't say there were problems among the women, but we can assume so because their were problems with the whole church cause of the letter being sent at all. There is no evidence in the letter though that the reason women could not speak is because of that particular church's problems. You are assuming its the women's fault that their are problems in the church. You are drawling lines where there is no evidence that they should be drawn. We take it in context. The whole chapter is talking about the order of how things are to be done.