L
Laodicea
Guest
*[[Phi 2:13]] KJV*
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
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*[[Phi 2:13]] KJV*
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Good answer, Lao...
I guess you knew where I was going with those questions...
Thank God for Jesus, right?
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
it seems to me there are some misunderstandings happening, and I'm sure that I do not have the answers, but what I can I will do, and that is to point out some bones we seem to contend with...
first, when we're talking about the law, we have to remember that legal things use legal terms which may have differing usages dependent upon application....example: contempt. The word 'contempt', for those of us who don't spend a lot of time in court or watching television (court tv etc), is something akin to holding a grudge, but in terms of law it has a more specific meaning (ie, being held in contempt, basically meaning you're so against the law that you can't even respect it long enough to be tried in court right now).
ok so second, the words "law", and "commandments", are speaking of people who are bound to follow those laws (either by birth[such as civil laws] or by pledge or oath [such as a covenant or marriage, either to God or to a person])
When Moses went up the mountain, he was representing a people who were already under a covenant relationship with God, these were the people to whom the 10 commandments were given, but the people proved repeatedly they couldn't handle it. These idiots wanted more laws. They didn't even want to see God, they said they'd really rather not. So Moses gave them more laws. They were given a system where to be reconciled to God, they had to kill something, but God didn't give that to them because he desired sacrifice, God wanted a relationship. Because they didn't want a relationship with God, and would rather use death for reconciliation, they clung to the commands, even twisting them to be on the safe side. So Jesus, who repeatedly healed on the Sabbath, was accused of breaking the law, but we know Jesus never sinned. God asks us not to go our own way on the Sabbath, it's a day of rest, but if we lose the SPIRIT of the law, we can sin while still following the law.
So before Christ came, during the time of the covenant God had with his chosen people, had a lot of things that were just for them, such as the system of sacrifices. We can learn from reading those passages, and we cannot throw them out, because that would be to say we didn't need Christ. That doesn't mean you have to sacrifice things. That part was for those (in Israel) who would die before Christ, who followed the law the best they could, repented when they could not, and hoped on the promise of a Messiah.
So we can stop saying, "are you saying we have to follow the whole law of moses?", because that's not what I see the "lawkeepers" suggesting. They seem to me to be talking about the Law of Yahweh, which is a different thing.
So now that Christ has fulfilled the covenant/law given for the good olive tree- WOAH ok, lets not get info overload. Christ fulfilled the law by fulfilling the covenant. A covenant is also called a promise, or a contract. The word contract is a legal term, and since Israel had it's own legal system, they would have understood that the obligations, and corresponding promises, refer to a contract. If I have a contract that you will put a roof on my house, the roof goes up, the money is paid, the contract is now finished. Not that it didn't exist or have significance. So now, anyone who wants to go back to the contract between Israel and God, are rejecting Christ, and they are choosing to be judged according to the laws they want instead of the Spirit being offered. They want to plow last winters snow.
Anyway, Christ is our high priest, in the order of Melchisedek (a priesthood that existed before Israel, and therefor before Aaron)....the high priest has the power to agree on our behalf to a new covenant. In the new covenant, we are yoked to Christ....ok pause...
If we are free indeed why are we still being yoked? wouldn't that be bondage like the old law was? no, Jesus said, "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matthew 11:30
What is a yoke, and how it relates to freedom or bondage, seems also to be a bone of contention here, although nobody seems to want to say it out loud, you can hear it in the spirit of people saying "which laws do you follow", "do you follow them perfectly?", so lets think for a second about yokes.
A yoke is a device of wood and rope, it bound 2 creatures together so that they worked as one unit. This is why we should not, to the extent we can help it, be "yoked unevenly" with a non-believer. Neither would go anywhere. If Jesus is on a mission to preach the Gospel, then we are on that mission too. We walk with Christ as we do what he does, as he saw the Father and did as he did, we should be seeing Christ and doing as he does. Since we can only see him by faith, we have to look at things and be observant (as a servant who knows not the hour when his master comes), and we have to do as we're told. Just as in any partnership, one must lead, such as a marriage, where like it or not, the man is the head; so in the church Christ is the head, and he told us what his commands are, and how to keep them, and even tells us that his spirit will dwell within us to help us. We need only accept the gift of salvation. If after we are married to Christ, we choose not to keep the commandments he gives us, we can be sure we are not going to accomplish anything in life. I'm not saying you go to hell. I'm saying Christians still have to obey they commandments given by Christ in order to walk with him, because of the yoke. So if you say you are running the race, and you are not in obedience and repentance, you deceive yourself.
If we consider that we need both the law, and the grace to fulfill the law, and that it needs to be the law of YHWH (the 10 commandments, and seek God/love your neighbor), not of Moses, I think some may see with more light.
first, when we're talking about the law, we have to remember that legal things use legal terms which may have differing usages dependent upon application....example: contempt. The word 'contempt', for those of us who don't spend a lot of time in court or watching television (court tv etc), is something akin to holding a grudge, but in terms of law it has a more specific meaning (ie, being held in contempt, basically meaning you're so against the law that you can't even respect it long enough to be tried in court right now).
ok so second, the words "law", and "commandments", are speaking of people who are bound to follow those laws (either by birth[such as civil laws] or by pledge or oath [such as a covenant or marriage, either to God or to a person])
When Moses went up the mountain, he was representing a people who were already under a covenant relationship with God, these were the people to whom the 10 commandments were given, but the people proved repeatedly they couldn't handle it. These idiots wanted more laws. They didn't even want to see God, they said they'd really rather not. So Moses gave them more laws. They were given a system where to be reconciled to God, they had to kill something, but God didn't give that to them because he desired sacrifice, God wanted a relationship. Because they didn't want a relationship with God, and would rather use death for reconciliation, they clung to the commands, even twisting them to be on the safe side. So Jesus, who repeatedly healed on the Sabbath, was accused of breaking the law, but we know Jesus never sinned. God asks us not to go our own way on the Sabbath, it's a day of rest, but if we lose the SPIRIT of the law, we can sin while still following the law.
So before Christ came, during the time of the covenant God had with his chosen people, had a lot of things that were just for them, such as the system of sacrifices. We can learn from reading those passages, and we cannot throw them out, because that would be to say we didn't need Christ. That doesn't mean you have to sacrifice things. That part was for those (in Israel) who would die before Christ, who followed the law the best they could, repented when they could not, and hoped on the promise of a Messiah.
So we can stop saying, "are you saying we have to follow the whole law of moses?", because that's not what I see the "lawkeepers" suggesting. They seem to me to be talking about the Law of Yahweh, which is a different thing.
So now that Christ has fulfilled the covenant/law given for the good olive tree- WOAH ok, lets not get info overload. Christ fulfilled the law by fulfilling the covenant. A covenant is also called a promise, or a contract. The word contract is a legal term, and since Israel had it's own legal system, they would have understood that the obligations, and corresponding promises, refer to a contract. If I have a contract that you will put a roof on my house, the roof goes up, the money is paid, the contract is now finished. Not that it didn't exist or have significance. So now, anyone who wants to go back to the contract between Israel and God, are rejecting Christ, and they are choosing to be judged according to the laws they want instead of the Spirit being offered. They want to plow last winters snow.
Anyway, Christ is our high priest, in the order of Melchisedek (a priesthood that existed before Israel, and therefor before Aaron)....the high priest has the power to agree on our behalf to a new covenant. In the new covenant, we are yoked to Christ....ok pause...
If we are free indeed why are we still being yoked? wouldn't that be bondage like the old law was? no, Jesus said, "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matthew 11:30
What is a yoke, and how it relates to freedom or bondage, seems also to be a bone of contention here, although nobody seems to want to say it out loud, you can hear it in the spirit of people saying "which laws do you follow", "do you follow them perfectly?", so lets think for a second about yokes.
A yoke is a device of wood and rope, it bound 2 creatures together so that they worked as one unit. This is why we should not, to the extent we can help it, be "yoked unevenly" with a non-believer. Neither would go anywhere. If Jesus is on a mission to preach the Gospel, then we are on that mission too. We walk with Christ as we do what he does, as he saw the Father and did as he did, we should be seeing Christ and doing as he does. Since we can only see him by faith, we have to look at things and be observant (as a servant who knows not the hour when his master comes), and we have to do as we're told. Just as in any partnership, one must lead, such as a marriage, where like it or not, the man is the head; so in the church Christ is the head, and he told us what his commands are, and how to keep them, and even tells us that his spirit will dwell within us to help us. We need only accept the gift of salvation. If after we are married to Christ, we choose not to keep the commandments he gives us, we can be sure we are not going to accomplish anything in life. I'm not saying you go to hell. I'm saying Christians still have to obey they commandments given by Christ in order to walk with him, because of the yoke. So if you say you are running the race, and you are not in obedience and repentance, you deceive yourself.
If we consider that we need both the law, and the grace to fulfill the law, and that it needs to be the law of YHWH (the 10 commandments, and seek God/love your neighbor), not of Moses, I think some may see with more light.
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
God working in you doesn't mean we aren't participating, if we aren't consenting to things at the very least, than Jesus wouldn't have said that those who loved him would do his commandments. It should be that the grace of God moves you to walk in the Spirit, and in that state, you wont transgress the law. This doesn't mean that we should be ignorant of the law. (maybe I just suck, but I'm not "in the spirit" 100% of my day like I aught to be, sometimes the law helps me defeat the enemy or grow in such a way that I am able to stay in the spirit more, but any attitude of a rebellious nature, and I'm back to repentance)
If you've grown so mature in Christ, that you are in the spirit naturally obedient at all times, then praise God. If you haven't or if you know people who haven't, the rest of scripture is useful =)
Amen, thank God for Jesus
If you've grown so mature in Christ, that you are in the spirit naturally obedient at all times, then praise God. If you haven't or if you know people who haven't, the rest of scripture is useful =)
Amen, thank God for Jesus
B
BradC
Guest
You think I am mixed up because I do not relate to or apply the law in the manner that you do. If Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believes, if I believe or if you believe, is Christ the end of the law or not according to this scripture? If Christ is the end of the law, what would that mean other than what is being said. Is Christ the beginning of the law to everyone who believes, NO! Is Christ the continuation of the law to everyone that believes, NO! Is Christ the end of the law to everyone who believes, YES!
The word 'end' in (Rom 10:4) is telos a limit at which a thing ceases to be, termination, finished, closed, the end.
The law was fulfilled by Christ, it has been terminated, it had ceased, it is finished, closed and has come to an end because of Christ. If we do not believe that, then Christ is not the end of the law and you discount the inspiration of what the scripture teaches or you do not believe that Paul is communicating the truth about the law. Either way it is unbelief on your part because you refuse to believe that Christ is the end of the law.
Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."
1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."
1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."
If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.
Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
If it does not mean that Christ ends the law as far the law able to destroy us, but it means we must not listen to the law, for all the words of the Lord that could be labeled law is finished, over, and to be erased from our scriptures, then we would have to rewrite the bible. Many of the words of our Savior would have to go, also. Actually, it is law that operates the universe. The ocean tides could not be depended on, the heavens would be out of control, we would only have darkness and chaos.
L
Least
Guest
That is true.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
B
BradC
Guest
The end of our faith for salvation is the redemption of the body, when we put on immortality and incorruption. When that happens our faith and hope for that final act of redemption will come to an end and we will reign with Christ. At the point of salvation when we first believed unto the eternal redemption of our soul through the cross of Christ, we no longer need to exercise faith to be saved for we have redemption and have become God's purchased possession receiving the adoption of sons (Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5). We are now kept by the power of God through the Spirit of grace unto eternal life. When we see our hope come to fruition, to wit, the redemption of our body, faith will have become the evidence of the hope of our salvation. Faith and hope will be realized and no longer needed. Look at Rom 8:23-25...
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
1 John 3:2,3 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1 Cor 13:12,13 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
When our faith becomes the substance of things that we hoped for through salvation, it will no longer be needed for we will see Christ as he is and we shall be like him. The law did its work to reveal sin and to bring us to Christ and is no longer needed, for Christ is the end (the finished and complete end) of the law unto everyone that believes. Just as faith will no longer be needed when we shall be like unto Christ through the redemption of our bodies, likewise the law is no longer needed having fulfilled its purpose because Christ is now our righteousness through faith.
This is what I see in the multitude of law vs. grace, law is abolished, “juaizers’”, Sabbath, laws we need to keep now, circumcision, etc. posts on the many threads dealing with those subjects as well as other threads where an argument of such can be slipped in and derail an otherwise edifying thread, is always repeating the same arguments against the value and purpose of the Old Testament law over and over, a dreadful misunderstanding of what it means to be in Covenant with God, and willful misinterpretation of other’s posts by not thoroughly reading what they say or just plain loving to argue.
There is a verse that illustrates this situation and describes these people. It is:
[h=1]2 Timothy 3:7 (NAS) “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”[/h](CJB – the version condemned by those who consider the law abolished) “ who are always learning but never able to come to full knowledge of the truth.”
(And the old standby KJV) “ Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
So regardless of which translation you prefer, it isn’t a complimentary picture of those individuals.
There is a verse that illustrates this situation and describes these people. It is:
[h=1]2 Timothy 3:7 (NAS) “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”[/h](CJB – the version condemned by those who consider the law abolished) “ who are always learning but never able to come to full knowledge of the truth.”
(And the old standby KJV) “ Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
So regardless of which translation you prefer, it isn’t a complimentary picture of those individuals.
JESUS said'If you love me keep my commandments'
but how can i do it ?
Psalms 127:1
king james version(kjv)
1.) Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain
but how can i do it ?
Psalms 127:1
king james version(kjv)
1.) Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
it doesn't even say an end of following the law....it says end of the law for righteousness...no more righteousness and hope can get you there any longer, that contract is over. Like I said, you can't plow last winter's snow. Paul was talking about israel, and specifically contradicts what BradC offers about salvation, when Paul speaks on the goodness and severity of God in the same chapter he's quoting from.
Someone show me one spot in scripture that says there are no more rules. And don't start your list with the verse about womens hair please. Ok so there's freedom in Christ, you're not going to hell if you let your hair down, but if you're worried about what you can get away with you probably have an attitude of rebellion, and that's not awesome. I'm thinking youth group abstinence talk...so how far can we go? Can we hold hands if we're not lusting? Just how close to the fire do you have to get to get burned. If Christ is an end to the law, then what are you even repenting of???? So you're telling me there's laws but you don't think Christians have to follow any of them?
Is this horse dead yet?
Someone show me one spot in scripture that says there are no more rules. And don't start your list with the verse about womens hair please. Ok so there's freedom in Christ, you're not going to hell if you let your hair down, but if you're worried about what you can get away with you probably have an attitude of rebellion, and that's not awesome. I'm thinking youth group abstinence talk...so how far can we go? Can we hold hands if we're not lusting? Just how close to the fire do you have to get to get burned. If Christ is an end to the law, then what are you even repenting of???? So you're telling me there's laws but you don't think Christians have to follow any of them?
Is this horse dead yet?
The answer is contained in the scripture you posted... And Also the Lord Jesus words...
Matt 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."
1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."
1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."
If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.
Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."
1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."
1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."
If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.
Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
B
BradC
Guest
We are talking about the law in relationship to sin and death. By the law is the knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). The strength of sin is the law (1 Cor 15:56). No one is ever going to say that the law of God is sin nor are they going to look upon the law as an evil thing. That would be pure stupidity and ignorance. The law says that thou shalt not covet, but it never tells you what it means for the heart to covet or practice covetousness. The law mentions things not to covet but it lacks the power of conviction in the heart as to what motivates covetousness and how to stop being covetous. What the law does in telling us not to covet strengthens the law of sin and death in the members of our body, so the strength of sin is the law and through the law is the knowledge of sin. In that aspect the law is good and holy but it lacks the power to deliver us from sin and from the law of sin and death. You can keep the law and obey everyone of its precepts and it will not provide you with any power over sin and death. To have power over sin and death we must have a derived life from above through the Holy Spirit that has been given unto us when we believed upon the work of the cross of Christ. If we live in the flesh, even in the good and moral part of it, and keep the law, sin will be strengthened and revived (Rom 7:5-13)...
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
OK then, How about explaining this one...
Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
the word here for end is, wait for it...
G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
So now, explain how the Lord ceases to be.
B
BradC
Guest
The difference between the law of the OT and the grace of the NT is the cross, Christ's death, burial and resurrection. The law offered no provision or justification in dealing with sin. Because Christ dealt with the sin of man, He is the end of the law to those who believe. The law reveals sin, Christ condemned sin in his flesh. The law is the strength of sin, grace is the sufficient strength we are given to keep sin from having dominion in our mortal bodies. The law will always bring condemnation to the sinner, while grace will reveal to that sinner that Christ paid for the sin, put it away and remembers it no more. Christ will always be the end of the law in this manner to those who believe.
If we legislate the law in any way instead of ministering grace then we will reinstate and revive sin giving it the strength needed to have dominion in our body of sin and death. The sin nature that resides in the members of our body has not been eradicated and won't be until the redemption of our bodies when we put on incorruption. Until then the Spirit will quicken us and provide the grace we need through death so that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh and allow sin to have dominion. Grace (not the law) teaches us that Christ has crucified the old sin nature and abounds toward us in all things. To be under the law we will be subject to the strength of sin but to be under grace we will be subject to the Spirit of life and free from the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2)...
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
If we legislate the law in any way instead of ministering grace then we will reinstate and revive sin giving it the strength needed to have dominion in our body of sin and death. The sin nature that resides in the members of our body has not been eradicated and won't be until the redemption of our bodies when we put on incorruption. Until then the Spirit will quicken us and provide the grace we need through death so that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh and allow sin to have dominion. Grace (not the law) teaches us that Christ has crucified the old sin nature and abounds toward us in all things. To be under the law we will be subject to the strength of sin but to be under grace we will be subject to the Spirit of life and free from the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2)...
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
I ran into a similar problem with a cat I used to have when we moved....the old house is gone...there are no rules! SCORE!!! Bad kitty! MEOW
No really though, I'm not sure the terminology is accurate in what you said, but I don't want to argue semantics so, to legislate the law, is to be circumcised. Because up until Christ, the law was for Israel, and the way you were grafted into the olive tree was through circumcision. They did have a system of justification through sacrificing animals as the law proscribed, but Jesus is our Lamb forever because he's the son of the living God. So now us wild olive branches are being grafted into the good olive tree, because where Israel failed to have faith it made room for gentiles. If we lack faith and look to the law to save us, as the Israelites did, we will bring the whole law upon ourselves. (Where at first you may have just been guilty of robbery, now you are guilty of transgressing ALL the laws, and committing spiritual adultery, resulting in an abounding of sin and death) Circumcision was not a commandment to be followed by anyone other than a mother or a slave owner or convert to Judaism, and there were people going around to new Christian men telling them that they need to have this procedure in order to enter the covenant (because they didn't understand that they themselves were the ones outside a covenant relationship with God since they rejected salvation) and not to mention- nobody gets up in the morning and says "what a lovely day, I think I'll enjoy it by having some old dude take a knife to the most sensitive part of my body". So now that the "end" or "fullness" or "goal" of the law (Christ crucified reconciling us to the Father) has come, and since it is not I but Christ that live in me, I need not the law in order to be righteous. However, as Christ lived on Earth and did not transgress the law of the Father (not talking about the law of tradition of the religious authority), so we should strive while we are awaiting the fullness of our calling, to live perfectly as he did, by obeying his commands as he tells us numerous times.
My flesh is dead. In that sense, I am dead to the law.
This brought me a huge victory over the enemy. I was on my knees feeling the accusations he threw, and I was greatly afflicted by the evil things I used to do, and then I saw in my head a court room where the enemy stood and a saw my lifeless corpse there and him accusing it, and I thought, how pitiful is the enemy of a corpse. I was so happy I started jumping up and down, I hadn't just been born and then born again, I was born and then I DIED, and Christ is my breath.
And Christ, followed the law, loved the Shema, and valued faithful obedience, and love of all souls, to bring glory to the Father. He told us to follow his example, and gave us practical instruction on how to do so.
No really though, I'm not sure the terminology is accurate in what you said, but I don't want to argue semantics so, to legislate the law, is to be circumcised. Because up until Christ, the law was for Israel, and the way you were grafted into the olive tree was through circumcision. They did have a system of justification through sacrificing animals as the law proscribed, but Jesus is our Lamb forever because he's the son of the living God. So now us wild olive branches are being grafted into the good olive tree, because where Israel failed to have faith it made room for gentiles. If we lack faith and look to the law to save us, as the Israelites did, we will bring the whole law upon ourselves. (Where at first you may have just been guilty of robbery, now you are guilty of transgressing ALL the laws, and committing spiritual adultery, resulting in an abounding of sin and death) Circumcision was not a commandment to be followed by anyone other than a mother or a slave owner or convert to Judaism, and there were people going around to new Christian men telling them that they need to have this procedure in order to enter the covenant (because they didn't understand that they themselves were the ones outside a covenant relationship with God since they rejected salvation) and not to mention- nobody gets up in the morning and says "what a lovely day, I think I'll enjoy it by having some old dude take a knife to the most sensitive part of my body". So now that the "end" or "fullness" or "goal" of the law (Christ crucified reconciling us to the Father) has come, and since it is not I but Christ that live in me, I need not the law in order to be righteous. However, as Christ lived on Earth and did not transgress the law of the Father (not talking about the law of tradition of the religious authority), so we should strive while we are awaiting the fullness of our calling, to live perfectly as he did, by obeying his commands as he tells us numerous times.
My flesh is dead. In that sense, I am dead to the law.
This brought me a huge victory over the enemy. I was on my knees feeling the accusations he threw, and I was greatly afflicted by the evil things I used to do, and then I saw in my head a court room where the enemy stood and a saw my lifeless corpse there and him accusing it, and I thought, how pitiful is the enemy of a corpse. I was so happy I started jumping up and down, I hadn't just been born and then born again, I was born and then I DIED, and Christ is my breath.
And Christ, followed the law, loved the Shema, and valued faithful obedience, and love of all souls, to bring glory to the Father. He told us to follow his example, and gave us practical instruction on how to do so.
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
oh, the Shema, is the first bit of Deuteronomy, "Hear O Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD is one. You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might..." it continues, but this is the most important part.
Shema means hear. Growing up, Jesus would have said this prayer every day, as part of his prayers to the Father.
Shema means hear. Growing up, Jesus would have said this prayer every day, as part of his prayers to the Father.