Dead to the law

[Grandpa]

First, the law is not for anyone who is not under grace, who does not know Christ and the forgiveness Christ offers. .

The law was given precisely because Grace was rejected.

For those turning back to the law today do the same thing. Do they do it knowingly or is the veil over their eyes? Probably a little bit of both. Feeling like they are undeserving of His Grace and Love they turn toward the curse which they do deserve.

The secret is all of us deserve the curse and none of us deserve His Grace and Love. When a persons heart turns toward the Lord Jesus Christ all of that junk in the past is forgiven. A new man arises from the ashes. One that can know Love, Peace, Joy.

Your love, peace, joy, shalom etc... doesn't come from the law. It comes from Christ and Christ Alone. The result of this love, peace and joy is that the law is established. 1 Corinthians 13...

 

[john832]

The law was given precisely because Grace was rejected.

And you have a scripture for that?

 

[Grandpa]

And you have a scripture for that?

You only want one?

 

[john832]

You only want one?

One will do.

 

[Historicist]

Romans 7:4 KJV
(4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Galatians 2:19 KJV
(19) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Does dead to the law mean we no longer have to keep the law?

No Laodicea, we do not have to keep the law, perfectly that is, Jesus did this for us. But He does expect us to use it as our moral compass (as He did). "Keep," in the context of "keep my commandments," means, not perfectly, but as a moral standard. We should not therefore be deceived by an interpretation (antinomian) implying that, because we cannot keep the commandments (i.e., the Law of the Lord) perfectly, we are to abandon them. This is analogous to a student who, because they could not score perfectly on it, would refuse the Scholastic Achievement Test. I agree therefore, that Galatians is not telling us to abandon the Law of the Lord for some other standard, "...for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4).

 

[Historicist]

The law was given precisely because Grace was rejected.

For those turning back to the law today do the same thing. Do they do it knowingly or is the veil over their eyes? Probably a little bit of both. Feeling like they are undeserving of His Grace and Love they turn toward the curse which they do deserve.

The secret is all of us deserve the curse and none of us deserve His Grace and Love. When a persons heart turns toward the Lord Jesus Christ all of that junk in the past is forgiven. A new man arises from the ashes. One that can know Love, Peace, Joy.

Your love, peace, joy, shalom etc... doesn't come from the law. It comes from Christ and Christ Alone. The result of this love, peace and joy is that the law is established. 1 Corinthians 13...

Yes Grandpa, but this does not mean we are free to transgress the Law of the Lord with impunity, "...for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4).

 

[john832]

No Laodicea, we do not have to keep the law, perfectly that is, Jesus did this for us.

No, He did not do it for us. We are still obligated to strive to obey the Law.

But He does expect us to use it as our moral compass (as He did). "Keep," in the context of "keep my commandments," means, not perfectly, but as a moral standard. We should not therefore be deceived by an interpretation (antinomian) implying that, because we cannot keep the commandments (i.e., the Law of the Lord) perfectly, we are to abandon them. This is analogous to a student who, because they could not score perfectly on it, would refuse the Scholastic Achievement Test. I agree therefore, that Galatians is not telling us to abandon the Law of the Lord for some other standard, "...for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4).

The Law tells us what sin is...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

So, breaking the Law is sin. We are to repent of sin and obey.

 

[john832]

Yes Grandpa, but this does not mean we are free to transgress the Law of the Lord with impunity, "...for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4).

And just to add to this...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is why Christ died, He died in our stead. He died to pay the penalty for breaking His Law. His death is applied in our stead every time we break the Law. This is not a free pass to break the Law, it is grace. God's grace is not infinite...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Wilfull sin puts us in the condition of being outside of grace and under the death penalty with no sacrifice to pay in our stead.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jesus is truth

Like I said let's not complicate things..

The law is truth = Jesus is truth = Thy Word is truth = Jesus is the Word = The WORD (dabar) is Ten (commandments) Words

Not complicated.

 

[john832]

The law is truth = Jesus is truth = Thy Word is truth = Jesus is the Word = The WORD (dabar) is Ten (commandments) Words

Not complicated.

Very straightforward! Nice post.

 

[Grandpa]

The law is truth = Jesus is truth = Thy Word is truth = Jesus is the Word = The WORD (dabar) is Ten (commandments) Words

Not complicated.

Its not complicated how you twist the gospel.

2 Corinthian 3:6-8
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

 

[Hizikyah]

Its not complicated how you twist the gospel.

2 Corinthian 3:6-8
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Same guy that wrote that wrote this:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

 

[Grandpa]

And you have a scripture for that?

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Romans 5:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Hizikyah]

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Romans 5:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Can you explain what Gal 5:4 means?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

The law is truth = Jesus is truth = Thy Word is truth = Jesus is the Word = The WORD (dabar) is Ten (commandments) Words

Not complicated.

Psalm 119:142Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 8:31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Exodus 34:28 Moshe was there with Adonai forty days and forty nights, during which time he neither ate food nor drank water.[Adonai] wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words. (Stong' s #H1697/dabar)
Deuteronomy 4:13He proclaimed his covenant to you, which he ordered you to obey, the Ten Words; and he wrote them on two stone tablets.

Luke 15:8-10

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Parable of the Lost Coin

8 “Or what woman (God's people), having ten silver coins,[a] if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the piece which I lost!’ 10 Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”


This is very very very simple. 9 commandments today's church says keep. But they have lost 1 commandment (4th Remember the Sabbath and keep it HOLY.) Whoever finds the lost word/commandment is finding a precious silver coin. Find the lost word/commandment and tell all your friends and rejoice together.

Matthew 5:18-20

King James Version (KJV)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[BradC]

Same guy that wrote that wrote this:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Rom 3:19-22

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that [the murmurs and excuses of] every mouth may be hushed and all the world may be held accountable to God.
20 For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For [the real function of] the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin [not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character].
21 But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets, (the law is a witness to the righteousness of God and not the source of righteousness)
22 Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction,

By keeping the law it does nothing to impart or impute righteousness to anyone, even those who are under the law. There is no revelation of the righteousness of God by keeping or observing any aspect of the law. Obedience to the law can not be used to justify any act of disobedience that has been made against it. We can not make up for our shortcomings or transgressions of the law by keeping the law through obedience because the law has already condemned us as guilty sinners.

Why would we want to keep the law that has already condemned us? So God had to go outside the law and give us his Son so that we might have his righteousness through his Son and when God did that the law and the prophets witnessed that work of righteousness that took place on the cross and it was finished. Finished meaning that what the law could not do, Christ did through the cross by condemning sin in his own flesh and putting it away. Now sinful man could believe unto the righteousness of God by faith through Christ and walk in that righteousness by faith (Rom 1:17,18), not according to the law but according to grace given to us through the finished work of Christ (John 19:30, Eph 2:8.9).

 

[Hizikyah]

Rom 3:19-22

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that [the murmurs and excuses of] every mouth may be hushed and all the world may be held accountable to God.
20 For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For [the real function of] the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin [not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character].
21 But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets, (the law is a witness to the righteousness of God and not the source of righteousness)
22 Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction,

No question we all need Messiah,without Messiah one is doomed.

Yet this does not mean we reject Yahweh;s Law that is why Shaul wrote:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

There is a very delicate balance that most completely miss.

1 Yahchanan 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Faith without works is dead, and those works must be in submission to and in the boundaries of Yahweh.

Yaaqob (James) 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Yaaqob (James) 2:18, "Yes, a man may say: You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works!"

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

 

[tkyles1009]

Romans 7:4 KJV
(4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Galatians 2:19 KJV
(19) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Does dead to the law mean we no longer have to keep the law?

It doesn't, why not continue to read the rest of the chapter in Romans 7.

I won't use anymore of my words from this point forward.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, whichwas to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

 

[Vernon]

Reply to John832:

? ? ? , So you are following the mosaic law as written in the Torah to the letter, to every dot and pen stroke? Is that what you are telling me?
What is this Law you follow? you may be fooling some into thinking you are observing the law of moses to exact perfection, but you are not fooling me. No one can follow the law of moses today it is impossible, first off where is your levitical priesthood?
You tell me I believe "VERY WRONGLY", that is a very strong exhortation. I want to know this Law you claim I must follow, and you must be following, write it out in detail please lest I perish for my disobedience.

 

[Hizikyah]

Reply to John832:

? ? ? , So you are following the mosaic law as written in the Torah to the letter, to every dot and pen stroke? Is that what you are telling me?
What is this Law you follow? you may be fooling some into thinking you are observing the law of moses to exact perfection, but you are not fooling me. No one can follow the law of moses today it is impossible, first off where is your levitical priesthood?
You tell me I believe "VERY WRONGLY", that is a very strong exhortation. I want to know this Law you claim I must follow, and you must be following, write it out in detail please lest I perish for my disobedience.

The priesthood has been transferred to the order of the malak zadiq, Yahshua the Messiah is now High Priest, this dosent change do not kill.

Also while none are perfect there is a difference between committing a sin and not even subjecting one person to Yahweh;s Law.

I personally subject myself to all of Yahweh's 613+ Laws, if I sin:

1 Yahchanan (John) 1:9-10, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:3-4, "Now by this we do know that we know Him: If we keep His Laws. He who says: I know Him, 1but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."


HOWEVER those who wont even subject themselves to Yahweh's Law fall in a different category:

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness